CRUELTY - You Tube Video ....

no but this horse is terrified and his front legs are hobbled. i would think dressage was cruel if that method was used to train them. this should never happen!
 
The whites showing in his eyes, the way hes trying to rear up, just everything in general.
This video is made even worse by the fact that the people are doing it for entertainment.
Makes me sick
 
galacasinoking said:
no but this horse is terrified and his front legs are hobbled. i would think dressage was cruel if that method was used to train them. this should never happen!
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You really should watch the whole video before you rush to condemn :)

Were they hobbles? Just looked like bells to me, with the rope and whip being used to encourage.

None of the other horses was hobbled. All the horses looked in super condition and were given lots of attention by their handlers - lovely to see them being stroked for reward.

It's not something I would do, but I don't see that it's inherently cruel, or more cruel than plenty of other things which are seen as acceptable :confused: They were asked to 'perform' for a few seconds, and then the pressure was taken off.. Didn't see anything too distressing personally.
 
I won't pretend to understand what is actually going on, I watched some of the other similar vids too & it seems to be a cultural thing. It does look quite alarming in the vid you linked to but in all honesty I wouldn't describe that horse as 'terrified'.
 
galacasinoking said:
EXCACTLY! And for entertainment

I realy dont understand how people can treat such lovely animals like machines
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I think really a lot of equestrian disciplines could be looked at in that way! Is it natural for a horse to carry a rider, or perform high school movements?
 
Is the Spanish Riding School cruel?
Is the Cadre Noir cruel?
Is anyone who asks a horse to 'perform' - be it dressage, cross country, dressage, TREC, whatever - cruel? They are all for human enjoyment/entertainment too!
 
sarelis said:
I think really a lot of equestrian disciplines could be looked at in that way! Is it natural for a horse to carry a rider, or perform high school movements?
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No its not natural at all, but dressage horses arent trained in a way like that, with their legs tied up and all the other gear they had on it pinning it down to the ground.
 
rhino said:
Is the Spanish Riding School cruel?
Is the Cadre Noir cruel?
Is anyone who asks a horse to 'perform' - be it dressage, cross country, dressage, TREC, whatever - cruel? They are all for human enjoyment/entertainment too!
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No, the spanish riding school do brilliant work with their horses and their horses always seem relaxed and happy in their job. All im saying is the horses in the video are being trained the wrong way and for the wrong reasons, they do not look relaxed and do not look like they are enjoying it
 
I can't bear cruelty to animals in any form, but I really don't think that was cruelty. Those animals looked in great condition, were asked to 'dance' for a short period then were petted & fussed over! Those people seem to value their horses greatly, & are showing them off at some kind of event. Not too different from someone taking their horse to a show/competition?
 
well like i said in an earlier post, dressage is not cruel, but if horses were trained the same way as the horse in the video then i would then say its cruel
 
galacasinoking said:
No its not natural at all, but dressage horses arent trained in a way like that, with their legs tied up and all the other gear they had on it pinning it down to the ground.
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It was hard to see from the vid, & initially I thought the horse was bound up in ropes, but if you look carefully the hind legs just had some sort of wraps on & the off fore was roped. poss to signal the horse to lift that leg? As I said I have no actual clue about what was actually going on, just how I saw it :)
 
sarelis said:
I can't bear cruelty to animals in any form, but I really don't think that was cruelty. Those animals looked in great condition, were asked to 'dance' for a short period then were petted & fussed over! Those people seem to value their horses greatly, & are showing them off at some kind of event. Not too different from someone taking their horse to a show/competition?
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you can tell in an instance if a horse is enjoying their job. when u see alot of horses at a show/competition, the majority look happy, ears pricked, happy to work. Im sorry but I just dont think that these look like they are enjoying their 'job'
 
Fascinating. My computer died at 54s in, but assuming it's that particular trick you have a problem with, I don't see the issue - horse looks like it knows the drill, doesn't look overly distressed, quite happy to perform, be rewarded by handler, looks in good condition...
 
I don't like it, but I don't think it's cruel. Some of the things you see.. well it barely comes close.
The horse was getting a lot of smooths and was only doing his little dance for a few seconds at most. He looked in FINE fettle too.
Everything we do with horses is un-natural how can we judge others when it's not natural for a horse to be leaping over 5ft hedges... but we do it :)
 
I don't 'get' it and don't like watching it, but there are much worse things they could be doing with the horse.
I saw a video (don't remember what it was called and I do not want to see it again) where some cowboy types (I don't think it was American though) let a horse go galloping down a field, then they'd rope it's front legs, it'd trip and go crashing to the ground, more often than not landing badly on it's face/neck/legs. They'd let it up, but rope it again and it'd fall again...now THAT is awful!!!
 
Oh dear, I fear the OP is a little delicate. Horses are routinely asked to do jobs which they do not "enjoy", they are often trained with "ropes and things", they are occasionally hit with sticks. The horses shown in the video don't look cruelly treated to me, and I have seen horses like these in India, where they are asked to "dance" at weddings. Seen FAR worse things in top professional SJ and Dressage yards.
 
galacasinoking said:
you can tell in an instance if a horse is enjoying their job. when u see alot of horses at a show/competition, the majority look happy, ears pricked, happy to work. Im sorry but I just dont think that these look like they are enjoying their 'job'
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That horse had it's ears pricked forwards throughout though, & when the pressure was released on the rope he stood there calmly & placidly. I think I will reserve my outrage for genuine cruelty cases, there are plenty enough of those to get worked up about, & not a cultural practice that I have no understanding of :)
 
For dancing horses, that is some of the "nicest" video I've seen. The horses were in great shape, they were asked to courbette a few times then they had a break and were fussed over, given treats etc, before being asked to courbette again.

The first horse had bells around it's hind fetlocks, not hobbles, and I didn't really see any overt distress. Ears flicking, maybe because of the music, but nothing worse than I've seen at ferias in Spain.

There was a few uncomfortable seconds around 4:30 when the handler had a rather tight hold on the horses mouth, but apart from that, there are FAR worse videos of "dancing" horses out there.
 
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