Crufts - Gun Dogs

You can still legally dock dogs if you have a shooting license and can find a vet to do it. I had a litter of GSP's docked a couple of years ago - I personally couldn't bear the thought of selling my dogs to working homes and risking them damaging long tails. I have seen the effects for myself. Like it or loathe it people can still do it.
 
The commentary last night said that some of the dogs were dual purpose - i.e. both for showing and working.
 
thats not the reason we are seeing them in the ring. Dogs docked legally or otherwise post ban are still not allowed in the ring at crufts because the public pay admission to enter. This excludes the gamekeepers ring. As s4sugar says the only ones in the ring that are docked will be pre ban dockings. It will be a long time before all dogs in the ring at crufts have tails. Dogs show careers go on a long time. I think the pointer was 12!
 
No, some of them are actually working dogs - they were talking about the individual dogs, not the breeds. There are working show dogs, Vizslak's Flora is such a dog and was at Crufts yesterday:)

Although apparently that is not the reason anyway (never knew that Vizslak:)), but it is a possibility.
 
Not true Amymay! Some of them will be workers as well. The GLP is a worker for sure. Some of the other HPRs will be working and showing as well.
 
Yea spud, I couldnt show Flora at crufts if she was docked :( So she has to work with a tail. Annoying but thems the rules!
 
Unfortunately the true working dogs that are legally docked since the ban are not allowed to be exhibited where the public pay an admittance charge so some of the best working gundogs and terriers cannot attend.

Some shows are upping the car parking and letting the public in free to allow them to be shown.
Crufts charges admission.
 
I think tail docking for aesthetics only is dreadful. In reality how many pure bred used for showing really do in fact work? I would say quite few, of course there are exceptions but for the run of the mill breeders who show in crufts I would say the majority of their dogs are for showing purposes only!
I think dogs with docked tails (under 4) should be banned from crufts unless they can show that they work and need it done. And preferably that the docking was performed by a vet too, as the ring method has been shown to be cruel and sore for puppies. I think the cost alone for using a vet to dock tails would put alot of people off doing it.
 
Ashlingm, whether or not a show dog is likely to be worked will vary hugely with the breed - some are unlikely to be worked, but with other breeds the dual purpose dog is still in existence. IMO this should be strongly encouraged for ALL breeds with working heritage, regardless of tail docking or not. I would like to see all working breeds shown at Crufts to require some kind of proof that they are fit to be used for the original purpose the breed was designed for, either by being worked in the field or competed at working tests, field trials or similar.
 
I totally agree that working dogs should be encouraged and in this instance I can understand them docking tails. On the plus side of that too there would be nothing better then to see a dog do something it was actually bred to do!
I just have a problem with the dogs who have tails docks for purely aesthetic reasons and spent their life as house pets. Personally I just feel its un-necessary for those dogs to have it done. I know when their puppies you don't want to restrict your market by docking them...But I would have thought overall that amount of working dogs compared to house pets and non working dogs would be quite low.
 
I think it will depend on the breed - for breeds with a large pet market like labs and some of the spaniels there is a clear divide between 'show' and 'working' types so you would not expect many dual purpose dogs - for breeds that don't have such obvious types, especially the rarer ones, I would expect to see a higher number of workers.

I agree with you about docking just for aesthetics, but I think that banning all younger docked dogs from Crufts, even legally docked ones, is short-sighted as it to my mind just discourages the existence of dual purpose dogs and encourages breeding just for form over function, which is what causes problems in the first place.
 
ashlingm said:
I think tail docking for aesthetics only is dreadful. In reality how many pure bred used for showing really do in fact work? I would say quite few, of course there are exceptions but for the run of the mill breeders who show in crufts I would say the majority of their dogs are for showing purposes only!
I think dogs with docked tails (under 4) should be banned from crufts unless they can show that they work and need it done. And preferably that the docking was performed by a vet too, as the ring method has been shown to be cruel and sore for puppies. I think the cost alone for using a vet to dock tails would put alot of people off doing it.
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Only vets have been allowed to dock for about 15 years .

I used to breed and had my last litter before the second, working only, ban.

From my last litter one stayed here, one went to a working home & one became an International champion. No way to tell which would be which at 3 days old.
 
s4sugar said:
Only vets have been allowed to dock for about 15 years .
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But in reality how many do actually do get done at a vet? I know there are people who do and I do respect those that do, but in my lifetime I've yet to meet a breeder who has done that. I don't know about britain but in Ireland anyway most breeders just put the ring on the pups tail at a few days old - no vet involved at all.
Actually as I'm typing this I'm pretty sure there is no tail docking ban in Ireland. So the above point is kind of irrelevant! Sorry! :P
 
ashlingm said:
But in reality how many do actually do get done at a vet? I know there are people who do and I do respect those that do, but in my lifetime I've yet to meet a breeder who has done that. I don't know about britain but in Ireland anyway most breeders just put the ring on the pups tail at a few days old - no vet involved at all.
Actually as I'm typing this I'm pretty sure there is no tail docking ban in Ireland. So the above point is kind of irrelevant! Sorry! :P
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Vet has to do it and pups have to be chipped. There are hoops to jump through if you want them docked nowadays. The split tail injuries of non-docked working dogs can be really horrific. :(

Ringing?! OMG, maybe for lambs!
 
The docking ban is only about five years old;before that dogs could be docked,now only genuine workers such as terriers are done.It is now compulsery that it is done by a vet,certified and the puppy chipped at six weeks.
It may be very old fashioned,been in dogs longer than I care to remember, but some breeds to me are ruined in appearance nowadays. Dobes with a tight corkscrew tail,Parsons with a mile of tail..no thanks.
Obviously ,with someone unskilled,suffering may have occured..but done properly there never was any pain or indeed any bleeding. Having it done by a vet would have been quite enough.
 
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