Cudo - Teaching everyone something new.... Surgery tomorrow

[BunnyDog]

So, this is a new one for me as an owner. And I figured that part of the beauty of our connection is that my shared experiences might help out someone who reads them here (IE. MIPS helmets, EDM disease, etc)

Cudo is having a laser ablation tomorrow because he has Corpora Nigra Cysts and they have increased to a point that they have now affected his vision and his willingness to jump in certain levels of daylight.

Thankfully at my job I schedule these procedures with our ophthalmologist all the time. So we were able to get him into the schedule and we are going to do both of his eyes tomorrow.

Rehab is short, 3 days stall rest and then he can resume hacking, flatwork. He cannot jump for a week or more and that's only to give his eyes time to return to normal dilation due to being dilated for the procedure. Obviously the depth perception is not ideal until his eyes return to normal dilation. Once the atropine dilation wears off he can jump again.

So what is this and what does it mean???

Great question, I am including a link with pics that can describe it better than I can.

https://www.animaleyeinstitute.com/...-the-most-common-causes-of-spooking-in-horses

For reference here is a pic of Cudo's eye (only took pics of the left, sorry) in the full sun, you can see how much of his field of vision is blocked.

Let me know if you have any questions and I will do my best to find answers. But overall this is an easy procedure without a lot of draw backs, and hopefully it will help him.

Em

 

[kathantoinette]

Hope it all goes well ??

 

[BunnyDog]

Hope it all goes well ??

Thank you. It should but let's face it, I am still good and nervous. But the surgeon is a dear friend and I know I trust her abilities.


Em

 

[humblepie]

Hope all goes well. Did you realise because of how he was going or behaving or did you see the issue in the eye?

 

[TPO]

Wishing Cudo a speedy recovery

 

[PapaverFollis]

Good luck, Cudo. I'm sure it'll go great and he'll be back to boinging soon. x

 

[BunnyDog]

Hope all goes well. Did you realise because of how he was going or behaving or did you see the issue in the eye?

How he was going. He was stopping 4-5 strides away from some "moderate" height fences (for him) in our lesson Sunday. It was clear, to me, that he was frustrated and I showed the videos to my vet and the surgeon and everyone kindof jumped up and said eyes. We had them looked at and the pic you see tells the whole story. He has been going by on heart and that day he legit couldn't see enough to jump confidently. I listened and here we are.

Hopefully it can help him. Time will tell, but he's not stopped much in his life.

Em

 

[Cragrat]

Hope it goes well - keep us updated please

 

[BunnyDog]

I should add he had his scheduled "Pre-Season" vet exam on Monday and all the things (legs, Back, neck, SI, flexions, joints, neuro) were exactly as they had been a year ago. For 15 my vet pronounced him to be in very very good shape and more than happy in his attitude movement etc.

Em

 

[Bernster]

Is it the darker bits in the middle? They’re quite common aren’t they? When I first had horses I asked my vet about them but he said they don’t need treating. Interesting to know there are options if they start to affect them.

 

[oldie48]

Thank you for sharing this and I hope Cudo's procedure goes well. I had never heard of this condition, so yes, you live and learn!

 

[MuddyMonster]

Hope it all goes well for you both ??

 

[Goldenstar]

I hope it goes well .

 

[Nicnac]

Hope all goes well for Cudo (and your nerves) and he's back out jumping soonest.

 

[BunnyDog]

Is it the darker bits in the middle? They’re quite common aren’t they? When I first had horses I asked my vet about them but he said they don’t need treating. Interesting to know there are options if they start to affect them.

I will get some more pics of them in the stall here shortly. But yes, the darker bits in the middle. When the pupil dilates in full sun, it of course shrinks. When it shrinks and the cysts do not shrink, they obscure more of his field of sight.

Watch this video put together by Cornell, another very prestigious Vet School in New York. I have it cued to where you need. It explains the corpora nigra cysts very well.

Em

 

[Northern Hare]

I will get some more pics of them in the stall here shortly. But yes, the darker bits in the middle. When the pupil dilates in full sun, it of course shrinks. When it shrinks and the cysts do not shrink, they obscure more of his field of sight.

Watch this video put together by Cornell, another very prestigious Vet School in New York. I have it cued to where you need. It explains the corpora nigra cysts very well.

Em

Hi BD, this is really interesting - you learn something new everyday! I've often spotted what I now know are CNC's, when a horse is stood in full sunlight. I wonder what proportion of horses have them, say over 10yo. They look solid when you look into the eye but I wonder if they cause a solid obstruction for the horse looking out through the eye, or perhaps just a cloudy area - if only they could talk! ?️

Cudo is very lucky that you knew that his stopping at fences at the weekend was out of character, and finding the cause. It does make you wonder how many horse "training issues" may actually stem from CNC's. Anyway, good luck to the patient tomorrow, I hope all goes well and that he's back out and about soon! ?

 

[BunnyDog]

OK so I took 23 pics and these are the only 2 clear ones. LOL....eye photography is challenging!!!!





Em

 

[humblepie]

Thank you for all the explanations and wishing him all the best. Years ago I had a horse with an eye injury and he had to wear a contact lens to protect it. Was amazing how it was fitted really simply and stayed in.

 

[Birker2020]

So, this is a new one for me as an owner. And I figured that part of the beauty of our connection is that my shared experiences might help out someone who reads them here (IE. MIPS helmets, EDM disease, etc)

Thank you for sharing. This is exactly why I'm on this forum so we can all learn from our shared experiences.

 

[EventingMum]

Very interesting, here's hoping for a speedy recovery.

 

[BunnyDog]

I meant to add, surgery should be around 12pm our time, so 1 hour from now. I will update this once I can.

The only drama this morning was the battery for the hydraulic jack on the trailer decided to die once I had the landing gear down on the block of wood it rests on, and before it had lifted the trailer off the truck.

Thankfully we got a jump for the battery and were able to disconnect the two parts. This afternoon I will have to jump it again to hook the truck back up. But none of this affected Cudo. It all happened when I was parking the rig.

Figures. But it was 20 mins that I was distracted and not worrying. So that's a small win.

Em

 

[Northern Hare]

Good luck BD, I'm sure it will all go well! ?

 

[BunnyDog]

Sooooo a funny thing happened at the vet. The ophthalmologist was not "excited" at all by his eyes. Said they are at a level where she wouldn't even note them on an exam if she'd never seen the horse. She was willing to do the laser procedure if I wanted, but suggested that since he is stopping/a little spooky she would like him to get seen by a couple other clinicians.

We did that and honestly we don't have many thoughts beyond doing his scheduled joint injections (First ones since August 2020, and he's 15 now) and lessening the changes in my riding style that I had started doing this year. (I was SO determined to get rid of the 'chicken wings and pumping seat' but admittedly I can feel him questioning me a bit without those things. So we'll bring them back a bit and try better blending them with the stronger leg and seat so he can learn progressively what it all means)

So he's home tonight and we'll do his joints tomorrow (as was the plan) and he'll rest a couple days then start back on an appropriate schedule.

There's obviously a fair number of unknowns at this moment. But we have a plan of attack. I spoke to my trainer tonight, she and I have good ideas to try and as always Cudo's best interests will always be the first and foremost priority.

So stay tuned, but at least now you know more about the Corpora Nigra and what can happen when it becomes cystic.

Many thanks for all the support.

Emily

 

[Michen]

Scheduled joint injections? Is that just for maintenance or does he have arthritis? I have heard of them being used routinely before but where do you jab out of interest?

 

[BunnyDog]

Scheduled joint injections? Is that just for maintenance or does he have arthritis? I have heard of them being used routinely before but where do you jab out of interest?

These would be for his hocks and stifles. On his original vetting (January 2018 when he was 10 coming 11 years old

Some folks do them on schedules of every 6 months, once a year, once every 2 years, regardless of any actual physical reasons. It's overall thought to be helpful to the horse.

For me, I am very careful to the point of resistant about giving injections in the joint if I don't have to. We do yearly checks to see how he is moving, what flexions shows etc. My vet (natural English woman btw) is one that prefers to help the horse before it needs major assistance, so we give Adequan on the manufacturer's recommended schedule if the horse is only a little stiff moving out of flexions. She will recommend intra articular (in the joint) injections if the horses are at least a +2 on flexions. Cudo is a +2 on the right hock and a +1 on the left hock. Hocks and stifles are done bilaterally so even though he might not "need" injections on the left it's better to keep his treatments in balance.


This is our first time actually doing his stifles. They have been on the edge this year and last year and collectively we agreed that at 15, with big jumps ahead, there was less detriment to injecting them as well.

By no means do we take these decisions lightly but all agreed it would benefit and help the horse. And if we can get more than a year or more out of this, then all the better.

In addition he will be put on Adequan for regular joint care and no longer on Cosequin ASU Plus oral supplement since the USEF has decided you could get a positive drug test from the caffeine in the tea that's in it. That was a fun conversation with NutraMax and the USEF Drugs and Medications rep.

For your own interest, here are the links to the products:

Adequan - Monthly intramuscular joint supplement

https://www.adequan.com/

HyVisc - hyaluronate sodium - This is what's used now in joint injections. It's new and this is my first time using it.

https://www.bi-vetmedica.com/species/equine/products/joint_health_portfolio/hyvisc.html


Em

 

[BunnyDog]

ETA it should say this in the beginning:

These would be for his hocks and stifles. On his original vetting (January 2018 when he was 10 coming 11 years old) he was seen to have very mild changes in his hocks. The English vet was a bit worried, the American vets were ecstatic. His hocks were beautiful compared to some we see at that age)

Em

 

[bluehorse]

My horse had these, they were much more advanced than Cudo’s. I never really questioned it, they’re quite common I think but his filled a large area, pretty much his whole pupil. He got an eye infection (unrelated) and was referred to an ophthalmic specialist who remarked on how unusually large they were. I then asked about them as I’d always wondered what they were and if they affected his vision. He said yes they do but mainly in the way they perceive light and dark, he said that they could be lasered out but this procedure was only really being used in top competition horses as it could make a difference at that level. This was about 10 years ago and obviously not something I’d consider for him. They thought it caused spookiness and affected spatial awareness making the ability to judge distances more difficult in certain light situations. My horse was always very sharp and spooky, although completely harmless. He was always the one ‘on guard’, intently staring into the distance. He was a potentially good jumper at the low level I ride at but was also a stopper at coloured fillers with a lot of pattern. He’d stop, have a look (like go right up to it!) then be completely happy to jump. Black and white fillers were the worst. I always wondered if there was something wrong with his eyesight and after I spoke to the ophthalmic vet, I think think that the Corpora Nigra were definitely a big factor and yes I do think they affected his vision.

 

[BunnyDog]

My horse had these, they were much more advanced than Cudo’s. I never really questioned it, they’re quite common I think but his filled a large area, pretty much his whole pupil. He got an eye infection (unrelated) and was referred to an ophthalmic specialist who remarked on how unusually large they were. I then asked about them as I’d always wondered what they were and if they affected his vision. He said yes they do but mainly in the way they perceive light and dark, he said that they could be lasered out but this procedure was only really being used in top competition horses as it could make a difference at that level. This was about 10 years ago and obviously not something I’d consider for him. They thought it caused spookiness and affected spatial awareness making the ability to judge distances more difficult in certain light situations. My horse was always very sharp and spooky, although completely harmless. He was always the one ‘on guard’, intently staring into the distance. He was a potentially good jumper at the low level I ride at but was also a stopper at coloured fillers with a lot of pattern. He’d stop, have a look (like go right up to it!) then be completely happy to jump. Black and white fillers were the worst. I always wondered if there was something wrong with his eyesight and after I spoke to the ophthalmic vet, I think think that the Corpora Nigra were definitely a big factor and yes I do think they affected his vision.

Here, for as little as it costs and how easy the rehab is, it's worthwhile to do for horses of all levels and jobs. Trail and pleasure horses get this procedure often.

Em