cushings and other serious ailments

[maggiehorse]

been sitting here musing today while waiting in for BT again (if i have to ring them on my mobile again today i will definatly not be polite!!)
any as the owner of a fit and healthy 18 yr old fully retired mare and chatting to two others about thier healthy oldies we got onto the subject of cushings , 4 horses we know have developed cushings in thier golden years and all were treated with up to date diagnostics and treatments , but all were dead within the year due to either laminitis or colic and it made us wonder if we would put them through the curly coat the exssesive thirst , the dreaded complications that so often occur even with excellent management , i talked this over with my husband (we own the mare jointly and have done so for 12 years ) and we agreed that if she was diagnosed with cushings we would put her to sleep immediatly, what do you all think?

 

[fatpiggy]

All Cushings cases are different and so you need to know each animal very well. My 29 year old was diagnosed just before Christmas. Her symptoms? None. She had a bad abscess and the vet noticed her wavy coat so tested her. The wavy fur is on the side where she lies down (she only uses one side) and is a pressure mark, that is all. Think bed hair! Her winter coat does wave a fair bit if it gets damp and then crushed and has done for the entire 17 years I've had her. She drinks next to nothing, even less now she is on Prascend. No weight loss, no laminitis, no apathy and loss of get up and go - she is arthritic so has given up scooting about with the others anyway and sleeps more than normal because of her epilepsy meds which are barbiturates.

As for colic, well the biggest killer of old horses is colic.

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

I would do the same. My friends horse had cushings for around a year and was PTS via bolt gun. I held him for this and the amount of blood via the nostrils was surprising (bolt gun is usually fairly clean).

After some research this is consistent for cushings horses PTS via this method. This is due to the tumour in the brain causing a massive increase in blood pressure to the area. He often displayed very subtle signs of headache type discomfort in the last few months. He was on a strict diet and in light work if any.

After this any horse diagnosed with a disease like this I would have PTS right away. Pills can keep them going but why?

If I do go to do vetmed in a couple of years I will take this experience with me...

 

[Ali2]

Depends how advanced the disease is. If you've got as far as big curly coat then its probably quite far advanced. A typical Cushing signs is thought of as the big curly coat that doesn't shed but there are usually other, more subtle, signs before you get to this stage that are often probably just put down to old age.

My previous share pony has PPID (Cushings) his was 'caught' at the excessive peeing and being grumpy with other horses stage. He grows a thick coat but its not a typical Cushings coat and he does shed. He's never shown any tendency towards laminitis and has responded well to 1 mg of Prascend per day the cost of which is about the same per week as the extra bale of shavings when his bed was really wet! He's retired, not because of the PPID, but because of hock issues, and is happy enough in himself so is enjoying his well earned retirement. When his mum thinks his quality of life is not good enough, whether that be hocks or PPID, then he will be allowed to go peacefully.

 

[maggiehorse]

All Cushings cases are different and so you need to know each animal very well. My 29 year old was diagnosed just before Christmas. Her symptoms? None. She had a bad abscess and the vet noticed her wavy coat so tested her. The wavy fur is on the side where she lies down (she only uses one side) and is a pressure mark, that is all. Think bed hair! Her winter coat does wave a fair bit if it gets damp and then crushed and has done for the entire 17 years I've had her. She drinks next to nothing, even less now she is on Prascend. No weight loss, no laminitis, no apathy and loss of get up and go - she is arthritic so has given up scooting about with the others anyway and sleeps more than normal because of her epilepsy meds which are barbiturates.

As for colic, well the biggest killer of old horses is colic.

yours hasnt had cushings for 6 months yet , this awful disease seems to worsen before the year is up , what i,m saying is i wouldnt put mine on meds at diagnosis , then have a few months before losing her to acute laminitis or other complication

 

[dressagecrazy]

I have my 27yo with Cushings & no is isnt being PTS or will be unless it's his time.

He lives a very active & happy life & without a doubt the tablets have made him back to normal. I am extremely careful with his management he's 2 years on from diagnosis.
I think it's a very rose tinted view to have if you believe all Cushings cases are the same yes they will detiriorate but horse management is about waying up the pro's & cons.

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

I have my 27yo with Cushings & no is isnt being PTS or will be unless it's his time.

He lives a very active & happy life & without a doubt the tablets have made him back to normal. I am extremely careful with his management he's 2 years on from diagnosis.
I think it's a very rose tinted view to have if you believe all Cushings cases are the same yes they will detiriorate but horse management is about waying up the pro's & cons.

What I have learned from an equine science and anatomy degree and my interest in vetmed and experience in the field is that the outward signs are the least severe.

If you could dissect a horse and see what is really going on in there your views would unfortuantly not be the same. Whist tablets control the symptoms they do not stop this awful disease

 

[maggiehorse]

i dont own any glasses , i,m sure some horses cope ok on meds , maybe i,ve been unlucky seeing 4 horses that really suffered in thier last few days (were fine till then and on meds)
i,ll think more on it perhaps

 

[dressagecrazy]

What I have learned from an equine science and anatomy degree and my interest in vetmed and experience in the field is that the outward signs are the least severe.

If you could dissect a horse and see what is really going on in there your views would unfortuantly not be the same. Whist tablets control the symptoms they do not stop this awful disease

No tablets do not stop it, but i will continue to monitor with my Vets thank you!!! Im certainly not putting him to sleep from your input.

i dont own any glasses , i,m sure some horses cope ok on meds , maybe i,ve been unlucky seeing 4 horses that really suffered in thier last few days (were fine till then and on meds)
i,ll think more on it perhaps

This whole thread has annoyed me tbh, i should not of posted. It is entirely up to you what you choose to do with your horse, but do not condem anyone who chooses along with there respected vets advice to do different. Enjoy your thread as im now bowing out

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

No tablets do not stop it, but i will continue to monitor with my Vets thank you!!! Im certainly not putting him to sleep from your input.



This whole thread has annoyed me tbh, i should not of posted. It is entirely up to you what you choose to do with your horse, but do not condem anyone who chooses along with there respected vets advice to do different. Enjoy your thread as im now bowing out

I do not mind what you would like to do to your own horse. I will never tell anyone to do anything. I can only share experience and what I would do.

I do think owners should be made more aware of what the disease actually does inside rather than just the symptoms.

 

[maggiehorse]

i,m not condeming at all! i certainly think you are doing an amazing job with your old boy , in fact you have really got me thinking , i may have perhaps been premature in my thinking about cushings , i may have been really unlucky witnessing these 4 horses and thier fight against cushings , i would like to hear more about your horse if you have the time

 

[biggingerpony]

Maybe I am missing something here, but surely it is down to the owner to dictate when they think their horse has had enough of life. Be it at the first diagnosis or later on when the horse detoriates due to the cushings or other old age related problems. I don't think you should criticize people who decide not to PTS straight after diagnosis if the horse leads a happy and normal life.

For what its worth my mare was diagnosed with very mild cushings (ATCH levels of 39) 8 weeks ago and vet is coming out to retest this week. She is happy pottering around the field and going out for hacks. When she gets retested even if the results come back worse, I could not consider PTS while shes so well in herself. How can I deny her those precious few weeks/months/years she may have ahead of her?

 

[Wagtail]

No tablets do not stop it, but i will continue to monitor with my Vets thank you!!! Im certainly not putting him to sleep from your input.



This whole thread has annoyed me tbh, i should not of posted. It is entirely up to you what you choose to do with your horse, but do not condem anyone who chooses along with there respected vets advice to do different. Enjoy your thread as im now bowing out

I agree. This thread is rather biased, I think. In fact, it could lead to some poor horse being needlessly PTS before it's time. My own Cushings mare has never looked better. She looks half her 18 years and gallops about playing like a youngster. She is on one prascend a day.

This was her a month before diagnosis:

 

[Ali2]

PPID is only ever going to deteriorate but while the horse can be successfully be managed and kept content then I'd not consider PTS. However, the owner must take responsibility, as in the case of ANY degenerative condition, and allow the horse to go peacefully when it's time. Rather a day too early than a day too late!

 

[Littlelegs]

The couple of cushings cases I have known well personally were very old when diagnosed with mild symptoms, & were pts from old age problems not cushings. A pony daughter used to ride was diagnosed at 25 a year ago & is currently enjoying life same as ever. I know not all cases are like that, & no horse should be left to suffer but I don't think diagnosing cushings is a reason to pts straightaway. I actually find it quite rude to say so tbh for all the owners who have horses with cushings that currently have happy lives.

 

[Talented Mare]

the vets can now measure how severe it is which would be an indication on how bad the cushings is...

i had my old mare for another 4/5 yrs after diagnosing it was cuchings.. i hadnt treated it though for the first two as there was no significant problems. then the coat started coming so i clipped and treated since then with pergolide. unfortunatley pergolide is not a cure but it eases/ helps with the symtoms caused by cushings.

My mare lived a happy life and to a ripe old age, she did get a little stressy if we didnt stick to a routine but this wasnt a problem. U just have to manage them alright. i must add though they are prone to get abcesses and laminitis.. those which get laminitis tho in my opion are probs very hard to cure or come back from laminitis. There is a current pony on our yard which sadly has been on strict box rest for the last 2yrs, due to the aftermath of the lami (not nice to see and cant be much of a life).

Sadly most older horses do go due to colic, and sadly my old mare did just last october. she was happy and went out in the feild daily , now and then had abit of a hobble due to arthitis in her knee but otherwise she enjoyed her retirement.

You will know when the time is right if problems arise, cushings isnt the end of the world.

 

[Cocorules]

My pony had raised ACTH levels last year. When retested they had dropped back to normal levels without treatment. She will be retested every 6 months now.
I was told she has early stage cushings.

She already has other problems and I will put her down when she stops enjoying life. While you cannot see what is going on inside and horses are programmed to survive by hiding pain I think I know her well enough to know when the time is right. Personally I would not pts my pony on diagnosis.

 

[JosieB]

My mares been diagnosed over a year now, started on one pergolide a day, blood tests were great so dropped to half. Lovely shiney coat now, full of beans and living out full time on a rough field. Certainly very happy in herself and not suffering.

 

[Montyforever]

A pony at the yard I used to help look after/groom had cushings, lived to 39 and was still the cheeky pony he always was until a few months before he was PTS he went very quiet/not himself. I think it's one of those things you can't fit all the cases in one box as it varies so much

 

[Sophstar]

22 year old pony diagnosed last October with a ACTH reading of 96 compared to the norm of 46 after a 3 day stint of footiness. Retested start of Feb on only 250mcg and has reading of 23 compared to the norm of 28.

The day my brat pony stops trying to rub his muzzle off on the fence, escaping and climbing through ditches, being his usual cheeky naughty self, telling off horses 3 x his size or trotting full speed whinnying when he sees me with his breakfast bucket will be the day he is PTS. Or the day the vet says 'box rest only'.

 

[Oberon]

My 26 year old was diagnosed in April.

His level was over 200 - so he must have had it for a while. Thinking back - he got 'old' and started needing extra care since 2010.

I started tinkering with diet since 2010 and then started mineral balancing in 2011. He came through this winter looking the best he ever has. But then this spring he lost the bloom from his coat and developed scurf.

He also lost tissue from both front soles.

Those were the only symptoms.

He has started on Prascend two months ago and I will find out his latest ACTH this week.

I believe the minerals and diet have saved him from having any other symptoms until it got to a high level that he couldn't hide from me.

He is still ridden, he enjoys life out with his friends (and his new BFF) and is no different than he ever was.

I wouldn't dream of PTS until he is ready to go - and I saw a horse go way past time and I have no intentions of doing that to him either.

 

[be positive]

If the symptoms are managed, with or without drugs, then no I would not pts as long as they have a good quality of life.

I have a 33 year old who is on prascend, he was diagnosed just under 2 years ago, he is not laminitic so lives out on unrestricted grazing, still does some light work and is full of life, certainly not ready to be pts.

The other pony I had was diagnosed very young at just 10, he came to my yard to get more work to help control his weight, again he was not really laminitic but was rather a good-doer, with a much increased work load he improved and was taken off pergolide, showed no further symptoms and went to a very active PC home.

 

[itsonlyme]

I think a lot of people think that pergolide is all they need. They don't consider their horses' management in any other way to be relevant. My 21 year old mare was diagnosed with it, with her only symptoms being a reluctance to shed her leg hair (full clip over winter, with legs left on, but they stayed hairy..but not curly). So i coupled that with her age and i had her tested in the July. All horses will develop it if they live long enough - it's down to the owner to see the symptoms early enough & adjust their management accordingly. You only have to browse through the yahoo cushings group to see how to manage them successfully for (often) many years post diagnosis.

 

[T's mum]

mine was diagnosed very recently and just waiting for the prascend tablets to arrive. his reading is 129.

One thing that concerns me if there's a growth in the brain then how do know they aren't getting severe headaches? i watch a lot of medical programmes and all the people who have brain growths have had bad headaches - would hate the though of him having head pain continuously.

his coat is very long but isn't wavy at all and has never had laminitis but he is rather lethargic so am hoping the tablets will perk him up a bit.

 

[PandorasJar]

The day my brat pony stops trying to rub his muzzle off on the fence, escaping and climbing through ditches, being his usual cheeky naughty self, telling off horses 3 x his size or trotting full speed whinnying when he sees me with his breakfast bucket will be the day he is PTS. Or the day the vet says 'box rest only'.

This. If your pony/horse is in pain they tend to let you know whether subtly or not. If you know your horse, you'll know when they're telling you to let go.

Pan

 

[LeannePip]

i would have to disagree with PTS at diagnosis because at that point you have no idea of the severity! i am riding my YO's old competition horse who is 18yo he was diagnosed with cushings 2years ago he was put on lots of meds costing a small fortune (at one point it was something like £10per day) wouldn't eat deteriorated rapidly had low immune system had an awful battle with mites in a desperate plead his owner turned him away with her other elderly companion - not something you would do to a 16yo dressage horse!! 2years on he now lives with out ANY meds - unless you count soya oil? he is on a well managed grazing programme to stop any laminitus flare ups, lives out in the summer, is in reasonable amount of work, is clipped all year round as he doesn't moult - he costs no more to keep than the average horse and he has a very good life he is a pampered companion and the most fantastic schoolmaster! I wouldn't jump to PTS if you don't know what quality of life the horse could have - it doesn't have to be the be all and end all but obviously everyones situations are different - I'm just very glad his owner was willing to keep him regardless as he is being such a super horse for me!

 

[EstherYoung]

My old bat was diagnosed in 2000. I've never had her on drugs, just hormonise and sensible management. She's starting to look a bit ancient now and is reaching the end of the line but she is well over 30 - any issues she currently has are due to the normal aging process, not cushings. She's still all there though and gives as good as she gets.

Since diagnosis she has never had another laminitis attack.

I think it depends on the horse and the severity of the cushings.

 

[maggiehorse]

thanks everyone its certainly given me something to think about

 

[LeneHorse]

My mare was diagnosed with cushings at the start of May with an ACTH level of 55. No obvious symptoms - I just had the test done as a precaution as my vets were promoting the free blood test in May/June. She was on 1mg prascend for 5 weeks, retested and her levels were normal so she is currently on 0.5mg and will get retested again mid July. She is only 14 so I have no intention of having her PTS on the basis of this diagnosis alone. However I will be carefully monitoring her and should her behaviour alter markedly or should she start suffering from recurring attacks of laminitis I will then review the situation, along with my vets advice.
I would also add that she will never be sold on or loaned - if at some point in the future my circumstances change and I can no longer look after her she'll be PTS

 

[splashgirl45]

i have found parts of this post quite depressing as mine was diagnosed in aug last year and is on 2 prascend daily...i am having her tested again tomorrow as i feel something is not quite right with her.....and know that the medication does not cure but as long as my horse has a good quality of life and can go in the field daily she will not be PTS.. however, as she is 21 i have already decided that if she gets laminitis , i will PTS as her quality of life will be compromised...at the moment she hacks out most days and seems to be enjoying life and i hope its good news once the vet has been tomorrow.this is a pic of her last week,doesnt look ready to go does she?