Cushings, itchy and stiff

[Asha]

My wonderful ole girl Asha is getting on a bit, shes 21 now, and been retired for a few years. Last year she was diagnosed with cushings, we tried meds but they made her terribly depressed. So vet said to take her off them ( after reducing amount which made no difference) . She perked back up. However, She had an awful summer as she constantly itched, she would itch in the stable, and when turned out would stand all day by the tree just rubbing, she would cut her hips, face ,belly, bum, neck you name it. The other horses would come and try and get her to go with them, but she wouldn't. It was very distressing to see. Through winter she hasn't been to bad, still itched, but not to the point of cutting herself. A couple of weeks ago it started again, so vet said to clip her. So we did, sadly shes still rubbing. Shes also a bit stiff behind now, so she really needs to be out more. Ive tried killitch and sweetitch rugs, but nothing has worked. Vets coming out later today to do some vaccinations, so going to ask for some advice from them. If theres nothing that helps, I will make the decision to PTS, but im hoping theres something that can be done, she doesn't deserve another summer like the last one.
Token photo of her when she looked well 😍

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would give the Prascend another try, starting with 1/4 of a tablet and building up to full dose very gradually, otherwise I don't think you have any other course of action open to you, except to pts. It is a horrible position to be in but as you say, she doesn't deserve another summer like the last one. I hope you do find something that works for her.

 

[meleeka]

It sounds like the bacterial infection my friends Cushings horse had. Has the vet prescribed washes and cream at all?

At this stage I don’t think you have anything to lose by trying Prascend again. This time start with an eighth of a tablet if you can get it that small and increase dose by tiny intervals weekly. My mare had her dose increased to two a day and she didn’t cope well. I took her off them and started again by small increments and she’s now fine on two.

 

[Mule]

Are you sure the itching isn't due to her being too hot. My cushings mare used to do this as she gets easily overheated because of her long coat.

 

[ITPersonnage]

I'm no vet but have you tried anti-histamines for the itching? What do they think is the cause ?

 

[Asha]

I'm no vet but have you tried anti-histamines for the itching? What do they think is the cause ?

Are you sure the itching isn't due to her being too hot. My cushings mare used to do this as she gets easily overheated because of her long coat.

the vet originally said it was because she was too hot, hence suggesting we clip, so ive taken her face, neck and belly off. Shes still itching those bits now, so looks quite sore at the minute. I will ask about anti-histamines when they come later

It sounds like the bacterial infection my friends Cushings horse had. Has the vet prescribed washes and cream at all?

At this stage I don’t think you have anything to lose by trying Prascend again. This time start with an eighth of a tablet if you can get it that small and increase dose by tiny intervals weekly. My mare had her dose increased to two a day and she didn’t cope well. I took her off them and started again by small increments and she’s now fine on two.

I would give the Prascend another try, starting with 1/4 of a tablet and building up to full dose very gradually, otherwise I don't think you have any other course of action open to you, except to pts. It is a horrible position to be in but as you say, she doesn't deserve another summer like the last one. I hope you do find something that works for her.

we started with 1/2 a tablet last year, and dropped to 1/4 , it never occurred to me to try again, I just assumed it didn't suit her. I will ask the vet about restarting. Thank you, she means the world to me x

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I have heard of other horses who got on better with Prascend the second time around. I understand how you feel, I lost my wonderful mare to Cushings aged 23 in November 2018 - and her friend (also a wonderful mare) in January 2019, also to Cushings. It's hard.

 

[meleeka]

If you are on FB I recommend the Equine Cushings group. It’s very informative and somebody will have been in the same position.

 

[Asha]

I have heard of other horses who got on better with Prascend the second time around. I understand how you feel, I lost my wonderful mare to Cushings aged 23 in November 2018 - and her friend (also a wonderful mare) in January 2019, also to Cushings. It's hard.

sorry to hear that Pas, cushings is an awful thing, I lost a pony to it many years ago, I tried for too long to get her better, and swore id never let a horse go through that again. For both of yours to go together must have been so hard for you, but the best thing for them.

 

[Asha]

If you are on FB I recommend the Equine Cushings group. It’s very informative and somebody will have been in the same position.

Thank you, I will look them up now.

 

[blodwyn1]

I cut out all alfalfa from my mares feed and she has black salt as well which seems to help with her itching. I now feed honeychop light and healthy, cush care condition and fast fibre. Mine also has a compromised liver so she also has milk thistle powder. She also has half tablet of prascend a day.

 

[Asha]

I cut out all alfalfa from my mares feed and she has black salt as well which seems to help with her itching. I now feed honeychop light and healthy, cush care condition and fast fibre. Mine also has a compromised liver so she also has milk thistle powder. She also has half tablet of prascend a day.

thanks blodwyn, I don't give her any alfalfa at all. She gets a very small amount of fibre mash as shes very fat. Really struggling to get her weight under control. The black salt is interesting, where do you get that from . What symptoms did she show ref the compromised liver , or is that just part and parcel of cushings?

 

[Pinkvboots]

I would try the prascend again it really did make a difference with my itchy mare, brewer's yeast can help itchy horses as well so can micronised linseed which I also fed to the itchy one, magnesium oxide can also help with weight issues especially in spring or when the grass comes through, my mare was also over weight and couldn't be ridden due to an injury she also had ems and it was a constant battle with weight so I know what it can be like.

 

[WandaMare]

My cushings mare gets very itchy and vet prescribed Malaseb shampoo, I think its antibacterial and antifungal but it does the job for her. I find if I don't rinse every drop off her, her skin gets a bit red so its quite strong but it does stop the itching.

 

[paddy555]

I would think it worth a try to use prascend again but start at 1/4 for at least 2 weeks possibly 3. Then try a half for another 3 weeks. Have you tried a dose of Switch? I had a pony that for one year only rubbed himself raw. Total bloody mess. SI rugs just got wrecked. He didn't really seem to have SI but we were at the stage of wondering were to go next. I tried switch (a pour on) and instant result. Rug taken off and that was it. I have no idea why. We didn't have to keep repeating it. I later tried switch with a genuine SI pony and it did nothing.
If you are getting towards the end of the line you could give it a go. Non prescription from hyperdrug/viotvet places around £30.

 

[Asha]

I would try the prascend again it really did make a difference with my itchy mare, brewer's yeast can help itchy horses as well so can micronised linseed which I also fed to the itchy one, magnesium oxide can also help with weight issues especially in spring or when the grass comes through, my mare was also over weight and couldn't be ridden due to an injury she also had ems and it was a constant battle with weight so I know what it can be like.

how much brewers yeast do you use ? , the weight is a nightmare, if I restrict / muzzle her in anyway she goes on hunger strike and gives herself colic, shes on a small paddock with very little grass , and all the others take a turn in with her to keep her company. she comes in through the day for a couple of hours and gets a very small haynet ( double netted). But is still very overweight.

My cushings mare gets very itchy and vet prescribed Malaseb shampoo, I think its antibacterial and antifungal but it does the job for her. I find if I don't rinse every drop off her, her skin gets a bit red so its quite strong but it does stop the itching.

im sure ive got some of that somewhere as it rings a bell, will have a look , thanks

I would think it worth a try to use prascend again but start at 1/4 for at least 2 weeks possibly 3. Then try a half for another 3 weeks. Have you tried a dose of Switch? I had a pony that for one year only rubbed himself raw. Total bloody mess. SI rugs just got wrecked. He didn't really seem to have SI but we were at the stage of wondering were to go next. I tried switch (a pour on) and instant result. Rug taken off and that was it. I have no idea why. We didn't have to keep repeating it. I later tried switch with a genuine SI pony and it did nothing.
If you are getting towards the end of the line you could give it a go. Non prescription from hyperdrug/viotvet places around £30.

Will look that up as well, thank you.

 

[blodwyn1]

Black salt comes from global herbs, I also feed micronised linseed. My mare became emaciated with cushings so my battle is to keep weight on! Every year I get her through winter and then her condition crashes in June the liver problem was revealed by blood tests taken to find out why!

 

[paddy555]

how much brewers yeast do you use ? , the weight is a nightmare, if I restrict / muzzle her in anyway she goes on hunger strike and gives herself colic, shes on a small paddock with very little grass , and all the others take a turn in with her to keep her company. she comes in through the day for a couple of hours and gets a very small haynet ( double netted). But is still very overweight.


.

if things are getting desperate have you considered a different approach which I know I will get screamed at for. Your horse sounds very stressed, very restricted grass and a struggle to get hay out of small net holes. A lot of time with very little food. No doubt the rubbing is in response to itching but there may be little else for her to do but rub. Unless you have a history of her getting laminitis immediately she is on grass have you considered turning her out on grass (no hay) and letting her get on with it. (on prascend to reduce the lami risk) Preferably a field with no trees or natural rubbing posts and no rug so she will get cold and wet and hopefully itch less. She is very overweight on a restricted diet you say. Possibly if she went out and was able to regulate her own eating patterns she may be happier and moving around would help. I appreciate it may make her fat but if she can eat there may be less risk of colic. Just a different approach to try and turn around the situation

 

[supsup]

Also worth a look at the laminits site: http://www.thelaminitissite.org/articles/starting-pergolideprascend
It lists a few further options to try and avoid the "pergolide veil" when starting on the medication, for example giving APF alongside the prascend initially.

 

[Asha]

if things are getting desperate have you considered a different approach which I know I will get screamed at for. Your horse sounds very stressed, very restricted grass and a struggle to get hay out of small net holes. A lot of time with very little food. No doubt the rubbing is in response to itching but there may be little else for her to do but rub. Unless you have a history of her getting laminitis immediately she is on grass have you considered turning her out on grass (no hay) and letting her get on with it. (on prascend to reduce the lami risk) Preferably a field with no trees or natural rubbing posts and no rug so she will get cold and wet and hopefully itch less. She is very overweight on a restricted diet you say. Possibly if she went out and was able to regulate her own eating patterns she may be happier and moving around would help. I appreciate it may make her fat but if she can eat there may be less risk of colic. Just a different approach to try and turn around the situation

I do appreciate alternative views, as im very much a quality over quantity type person. Last year she was out with all the others over the summer, in the field with all the grass, (as the year before was when I tried restricting her and she was poorly) I wonder if I made a mistake doing that ? I just thought this winter I would try and use the poor weather to help reduce things so come the summer she could go out with them all again, and try and enjoy some lazy summer days. We just dont seem to have had enough poor weather this year. the field she is in at the moment doesn't have a tree, and all my post and rail has electric on the top, but shes found that she can itch on the gate ( she actually managed to push the gate off its hinges not so long ago) Then comes in for a few hours and rubs herself sore on the stable. She hasnt had a rug all winter, even after I clipped her out.

Forgot to mention, she hasn't had laminitis yet

i appreciate any ideas, willing to try anything !

 

[blodwyn1]

Is there any way you could set up a track system for her? Mine is also on a track so she has to move between grazing area, hay and water. She can get up a good gallop on it so is kept moving.

 

[spookypony]

I would also second giving the Prascend another go. How long was your horse on it, the first time? I'm told it's normal to go through a phase of depression-like symptoms, but in most cases, this passes eventually. Some horses show the opposite: my pony went totally loopy for a few weeks, after about a month on the drug, and then settled down again.

 

[Pinkvboots]

how much brewers yeast do you use ? , the weight is a nightmare, if I restrict / muzzle her in anyway she goes on hunger strike and gives herself colic, shes on a small paddock with very little grass , and all the others take a turn in with her to keep her company. she comes in through the day for a couple of hours and gets a very small haynet ( double netted). But is still very overweight.


im sure ive got some of that somewhere as it rings a bell, will have a look , thanks



Will look that up as well, thank you.

I really can't remember I lost her 4 years ago and my other horses don't have it, I know it was gold label stuff I do know it's quite a bit as I had to do it gradually or she wouldn't eat it.

 

[Asha]

I would also second giving the Prascend another go. How long was your horse on it, the first time? I'm told it's normal to go through a phase of depression-like symptoms, but in most cases, this passes eventually. Some horses show the opposite: my pony went totally loopy for a few weeks, after about a month on the drug, and then settled down again.

I can remember exactly i think she was on it for about 8 weeks, started on 1 tablet per day, and we just kept reducing it. The vet had said she was borderline, so advised to stop giving it to her, after she came off, she was her normal self for a bit, and then came the itching.

 

[JJS]

I'd second two of the recommendations that have already been made.

Firstly, join the Cushing's group on Facebook. I admin on there and we have over 12,000 members, so you can guarantee that someone has experienced the same as you at some point.

Secondly, try her again on 1/8 of a dose, very gradually titrating up. It doesn't matter how slowly you do it - just be guided by her. When you do get up to the point where you're giving 1/4, for example, split this am and pm so it's not hitting her all at once. Many, many people who thought their horses were intolerant have found they actually aren't once they've done it this way. You may find it only take a tiny amount to manage her, and that her original dose was simply too high, hence the seeming intolerance.

Also, there are a couple of other, less widely used drugs that can help with PPID. They're not quite as effective as Prascend, but there are some who've had a degree of success with them, so may also be worth considering.

 

[spookypony]

I can remember exactly i think she was on it for about 8 weeks, started on 1 tablet per day, and we just kept reducing it. The vet had said she was borderline, so advised to stop giving it to her, after she came off, she was her normal self for a bit, and then came the itching.

1 tablet as the starting dose per day is quite high, so I'm not surprised she reacted quite strongly! When did the depressed state show? 8 weeks seems very short to try...

 

[Asha]

1 tablet as the starting dose per day is quite high, so I'm not surprised she reacted quite strongly! When did the depressed state show? 8 weeks seems very short to try...

its what the vet recommended ! She started being depressed after a week, and would just stand in the field with her head low, and not interacting at all, the others just walked off and left her . New vet has been out and has taken bloods to check levels against last years, and mentioned the possibility of steroids ( depending on the blood results), and looking at putting her back on the meds. Should know a bit more when the results come back.

 

[spookypony]

its what the vet recommended ! She started being depressed after a week, and would just stand in the field with her head low, and not interacting at all, the others just walked off and left her . New vet has been out and has taken bloods to check levels against last years, and mentioned the possibility of steroids ( depending on the blood results), and looking at putting her back on the meds. Should know a bit more when the results come back.

Glad you are having a different vet look into it; sounds like the previous one might not have been very experienced with the drug. Is your current vet totally sure that the itching is actually related to the Cushing's?

 

[Asha]

Glad you are having a different vet look into it; sounds like the previous one might not have been very experienced with the drug. Is your current vet totally sure that the itching is actually related to the Cushing's?

She just said it sounded as though it was related. In her mind she said it wasn’t related to the midges as they aren’t out at the moment , def no lice , and no change in feed / bedding .

 

[spookypony]

She just said it sounded as though it was related. In her mind she said it wasn’t related to the midges as they aren’t out at the moment , def no lice , and no change in feed / bedding .

Could be mites rather than lice? They are much harder to detect!