Cushings, Prascend or not?

[Samantha T]

Hi I am new to this forum. I have one horse, 22 yr old that has been on Cushings meds for 14 months, doing ok. retired due to joint issues but no infections or laminitis touch wood... 2nd horse now tested, 238 Cushings raised level, symptoms are a bit subdued and infections taking longer to heal eg mud fever proved hard to get rid of but nearly there now, he's 20. I again now have the debate as to whether to medicate or not, everyone seems to have different opinions still?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

What do you see as the alternative?

 

[meleeka]

Why wouldn’t you? It’s about the same cost as a good joint supplement and very much cheaper than the alternative vet bills, when the symptoms are uncontrolled.

 

[ycbm]

Why would you not?


Welcome to the forum.
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[Samantha T]

Thankyou for the welcome

Just some people say the more herbal/supplement route is better for the horse. My horse that's on them already has never been 'right' and still displays strange symptoms, but at least he's not ill so I've continued with the meds.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would medicate with prascend herbal remedies in my opinion do nothing for cushings, its a horrible condition and me personally couldn't live with the fact that if I didn't medicate the horse is potentially a ticking time bomb in regards to being more prone to laminitis.

Having lost 2 horses to laminitis I never want to be in that position again so for me it is a no brainer.

 

[ycbm]

The only herb I'm aware of that is tested for treating treat Cushings (and the Parkinsons that pergolide was used for in humans until it was shown to cause heart valve problems) is mucuna, and the cost of that when I last used it was not far off pergolide and there is no standardised dose. What herbs are other people suggesting you should use?

 

[Samantha T]

I do appreciate people's comments. I genuinely always want to do the best for the horse, just so many people have so many differing views on it

 

[ycbm]

I do appreciate people's comments. I genuinely always want to do the best for the horse, just so many people have so many differing views on it

To be honest on this forum I've never heard any view but one. Medicate.
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[Samantha T]

Feedmark do a C Plus supplement. Others recommend Milk Thistle. Radiance Gold do a Cush Off I've been recommended. Hilton Herbs do a Cush X, so I think there's quite a few out there

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Feedmark do a C Plus supplement. Others recommend Milk Thistle. Radiance Gold do a Cush Off I've been recommended. Hilton Herbs do a Cush X, so I think there's quite a few out there

But they are to use in conjunction with Prascend, not instead.
Your choices are Prascend or pts.

 

[splashgirl45]

Welcome , you will find many opinions re treatment for cushings but the clinical tests say nothing herbal works ,prascend is proved to work and as far as I was concerned there was no choice for my mare it was either medicate or wait till laminitis strikes, it was a no brainer for me, and I don’t understand why you wouldn’t medicate as you already have one on it , listen to your vet rather than the general public. If you are thinking of the cost of the medication from the vets, get a prescription from them and buy on the internet

 

[Samantha T]

Hi yes I already buy via internet to keep the cost down. The cost for the 2nd one is not the issue, if he needs it he'll get it. Even the vet says there are differing opinions and some horses don't take to it. Although my first gelding is relatively healthy he still has symptoms that the Prascend hasn't really helped with, so I suppose I just wondered what the 'latest' research and thoughts wer

 

[Samantha T]

Apparently Chasteberry is in a lot of the supplements and you shouldn't use this with Prascend so there is advice regarding some of the supplements with Prascend

 

[MuddyMonster]

But they are to use in conjunction with Prascend, not instead.
Your choices are Prascend or pts.

I believe Agnus Castus/Chasteberry - which is usually the main ingredient - can't be used with Prascend, so it can be an either/or.

I would have gone the herbal route as our test results have always been borderline - we've never had a positive - had it not been for a mild laminitis episode.

I've thought about going down the herbal route again as he's routinely testing negative and his dose is so, so low and his whole management has changed (he's gone from full livery to DIY) and there were most likely some management & stress related triggers for the laminitis, I think ... but not quite braved it, just in cases!

 

[meleeka]

Some horses do react badly, but you won’t know if your horse is one of the tiny minority until you try it. For mine, Prascend has literally been a lifesaver. Without it, the hard fact is, she’d have been dead a long time ago.

Veterinary advice is still to medicate with Prascend if possible.

 

[Samantha T]

It's a strange one with my gelding recently diagnosed as other than the mud fever clearing up more slowly than I thought was usual, he's not displaying any other symptoms other than a bit lethargic. His level is 238 so it's high, but no laminitis, no curly coat, no appetite issues, just my suspicions caused the testing.

 

[Samantha T]

Thanks Meleeka, glad it's working out for yours

 

[Gloi]

Medicate. Keep testing bloods to be sure the levels are right. Nothing but prascend treats the underlying cause of PPID.
Mine was on it for 5 years.

 

[Samantha T]

Thanks Gloi, did you find your went back to normal? Or how long did it take to deteriorate? My 1st gelding is still on it and his dose recently increased from 1 tablet daily to 1.25 daily

 

[Tiddlypom]

238 is high, the grey area was between 23 and 40 when my three were tested two weeks ago.

Good on you getting him tested. The earlier in the course of the condition that you can get them diagnosed and stabilised on Prascend the better. They can be pretty sick internally without showing overt symptoms.

Some horses don’t tolerate Prascend well, but most do ok if the dose is titrated up carefully, in half or quarter tablet doses over of several weeks. I imagine that your chap is going to need at least 1 tablet per day.

If it turns out that he just can’t tolerate Prascend, then that is the time to revaluates your options re herbal remedies. They are much less effective though, they just tinker round the edges of the symptoms.

Two of my mares have controlled PPID, one doesn’t but she now has annual screening aged 12yo. One of the two PPID mares had hers picked up on a routine screening test aged 11yo. She’s now 17yo and doing great on 1 tablet/day. Their recent results showed levels of 17.0 and 23.1.

Good luck.

 

[Samantha T]

Thanks Tiddlypom

 

[Gloi]

Thanks Gloi, did you find your went back to normal? Or how long did it take to deteriorate? My 1st gelding is still on it and his dose recently increased from 1 tablet daily to 1.25 daily

The readings went back to normal and he stopped his abnormal sweating. They stayed at a normal level for the rest of his life until we had him PTS at 30 , not due to the PPID. He only ever needed 1/2 a day though his field mate of the same age went up to 1 1/2 before he was PTS from arthritis.

 

[Samantha T]

The readings went back to normal and he stopped his abnormal sweating. They stayed at a normal level for the rest of his life until we had him PTS at 30 , not due to the PPID.

That was a great result then really, so he was a definite success story for the Prascend!

 

[Gloi]

That was a great result then really, so he was a definite success story for the Prascend!

Yes , and it only took a couple of weeks treatment before his weird sweating stopped. He had also started stopping to pee half way round a ride and that stopped too.

 

[ycbm]

Welcome , you will find many opinions re treatment for cushings but the clinical tests say nothing herbal works

Mucuna does work, it's been tested on humans and in horses. It's a dopamine agonist just like pergolide is. It contains a significant quantity of L dopa.
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[meleeka]

Mucuna does work, it's been tested on humans and in horses. It's a dopamine agonist just like pergolide is. It contains a significant quantity of L dopa.
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The only info I can find on this with regard to horses is from companies marketing their own supplement. Do you have a link?

 

[splashgirl45]

Mucuna does work, it's been tested on humans and in horses. It's a dopamine agonist just like pergolide is. It contains a significant quantity of L dopa.
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I’ve never heard of that, lost my mare back in 2016 and I did quite a bit of research to see if I could find anything else but all the info I could find at the time said only prascend worked and it cost me a lot as she was on 4 tablets a day

 

[ycbm]

It was a long time back now but there's plenty online about using it in humans and the Indian subcontinent has treated Parkinsons with it for centuries. There is one study in ponies and as far as I remenber it was done in Holland or Denmark and I read the Google translation.

I tried it in a pony I planned to sell and it made her look and behave years younger very quickly. She went to her new owner who was experienced with Cushings, had one already with it and simply added her to the management of that pony.

It isn't cheap and if you intend to pay the vet for tests anyway then pergolide makes sense.
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[ycbm]

I’ve never heard of that, lost my mare back in 2016 and I did quite a bit of research to see if I could find anything else but all the info I could find at the time said only prascend worked and it cost me a lot as she was on 4 tablets a day

I bought it for myself to see what it did with depression but it made me much worse! When I was researching it I came across the stuff about Parkinsons and put 2 and 2 together as pergolide was used in people to treat Parkinsons until it was withdrawn for causing heart valve damage.
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