Dallas ponies

[Caol Ila]

I saw on a couple of my FB groups (from two difference sources) that circa forty feral ponies from the Dallas estate in Morayshire have been rounded up and sent to auction somewhere in England. This is not ideal, given that the youngest of these will be about 11 years old, the oldest pushing 30 or more, and none are handled. Not sure what the point of this post is -- other than to say that I feel sorry for these horses. That's a lot of feral adult horses, and I doubt that many will find soft landings.

I can't figure out what auction they've gone to, but if you guys or anyone you know comes across one, you should know exactly what you're getting. It sure won't be an easy project.

 

[Fieldlife]

I saw on a couple of my FB groups (from two difference sources) that circa forty feral ponies from the Dallas estate in Morayshire have been rounded up and sent to auction somewhere in England. This is not ideal, given that the youngest of these will be about 11 years old, the oldest pushing 30 or more, and none are handled. Not sure what the point of this post is -- other than to say that I feel sorry for these horses. That's a lot of feral adult horses, and I doubt that many will find soft landings.

I can't figure out what auction they've gone to, but if you guys or anyone you know comes across one, you should know exactly what you're getting. It sure won't be an easy project.

I'd imagine majority over 15 will go for meat?

 

[Caol Ila]

I'd imagine majority over 15 will go for meat?

Allegedly they are signed out of the meat chain.

 

[Fieldlife]

Allegedly they are signed out of the meat chain.

Oh how does that work? For some it might have been the best thing, as you say are unlikely to be 40 soft landings. And not sure how well feral horses over a certain age adapt.

 

[SEL]

Allegedly they are signed out of the meat chain.

I think that's just the human meat chain isn't it?

 

[Caol Ila]

I'm not sure how it works, but my sources tell me that they are. Probably via microchips and passports, same as any domestic horse? I think World Horse Welfare microchipped everything when they were rounded up in 2011. My horse certainly has one.

 

[SpeedyPony]

Signed out will only be for human consumption, not dog meat. To be honest, it probably would have been more humane to call out the knacker first off, if they couldn't find some use for them as conservation grazing animals.

 

[Fieldlife]

I'm not sure how it works, but my sources tell me that they are. Probably via microchips and passports, same as any domestic horse? I think World Horse Welfare microchipped everything when they were rounded up in 2011. My horse certainly has one.

Wonder why? I understand if have had drugs making unsuitable, but would think they would suit food chain.

 

[rabatsa]

If the passports are issued after the age of one then they are classed as replacements and automatically signed out of the food chain.

 

[Caol Ila]

The horses have been on that estate for years, no longer breeding because they gelded all the colts and stallions in 2011, but by all accounts, they were living happy lives in natural herds, effectively doing conservation grazing. It sounds like the owner was given an offer he couldn't refuse. No one thinks this was about anything else.

 

[Fieldlife]

The horses have been on that estate for years, no longer breeding because they gelded all the colts and stallions in 2011, but by all accounts, they were living happy lives in natural herds, effectively doing conservation grazing. It sounds like the owner was given an offer he couldn't refuse. No one thinks this was about anything else.

If they cant go for meat, I would think little value? Assuming none of the mares can be registered as pure bred Highland? I think would cost far more to work with than would fetch? Far more cost in rounding up than would make I'd imagine?

 

[Caol Ila]

Well, indeed. This seems obvious. And crazy. Like I said, this has been confirmed by two separate sources, one of whom is a well-regarded Highland breeder. But morons are one of the fundamental elements in the universe, sadly. My horse ended up with me because someone thought it would be easy to tame, train, and then sell some of them at a profit. Fin turned out to be relatively biddable and straightforward, given his background, but none of his compatriots were. Out of 18 horses caught in 2018, he's the only ridable one. Not great odds.

 

[Archangel]

Poor ponies. What a train wreck.

 

[Fieldlife]

Well, indeed. This seems obvious. And crazy. Like I said, this has been confirmed by two separate sources, one of whom is a well-regarded Highland breeder. But morons are one of the fundamental elements in the universe, sadly. My horse ended up with me because someone thought it would be easy to tame, train, and then sell some of them at a profit. Fin turned out to be relatively biddable and straightforward, given his background, but none of his compatriots were. Out of 18 horses caught in 2018, he's the only ridable one. Not great odds.

I wonder why non of the other 9 year old? (In 2018) horses could successfully be turned into riding horses. It sounds like they had a pretty un disturbed life until rounded up.

 

[Caol Ila]

I wonder why non of the other 9 year old? (In 2018) horses could successfully be turned into riding horses. It sounds like they had a pretty un disturbed life until rounded up.

Some of them were not 8/9 years old. They were much older. One (that I know about) had been an established band stallion before gelding, so he was very unlikely to take to domestic life.

As for the others, I reckon it was a combination of individual temperament + people with little to no experience of ferals. Maybe if they had gone to someone like Palo straightaway, they would ended up more trainable. My horse's ex-owner had bought three Dallas ponies, and she told me that Fin was the first of the three to "present himself for training." I have since been in contact with his trainer, who said more or less the same thing, but worded it differently. She said that Fin was the only one of the three who wasn't dangerous to handle and didn't try to kill anyone. That was in 2018/19. More recently, I know one is still completely unbacked, and the other has worn a saddle and been sat on, but I don't know if he has been ridden away. He wasn't when I viewed them last summer.

Apparently some of the horses who were recently captured have ended up at dealers' yards. That does not sound ideal.

 

[palo1]

Some of them were not 8/9 years old. They were much older. One (that I know about) had been an established band stallion before gelding, so he was very unlikely to take to domestic life.

As for the others, I reckon it was a combination of individual temperament + people with little to no experience of ferals. Maybe if they had gone to someone like Palo straightaway, they would ended up more trainable. My horse's ex-owner had bought three Dallas ponies, and she told me that Fin was the first of the three to "present himself for training." I have since been in contact with his trainer, who said more or less the same thing, but worded it differently. She said that Fin was the only one of the three who wasn't dangerous to handle and didn't try to kill anyone. That was in 2018/19. More recently, I know one is still completely unbacked, and the other has worn a saddle and been sat on, but I don't know if he has been ridden away. He wasn't when I viewed them last summer.

Apparently some of the horses who were recently captured have ended up at dealers' yards. That does not sound ideal.

It all sounds very sad tbh. I am no expert but having started a lot of feral ponies/horses over the years (for us and for our children) and although it would not really be a job for a fearful or novice owner, I wouldn't have thought the Dallas ponies should have been so very difficult unless they really were badly mishandled at some point. Even so, they could have made potentially lovely ridden horses. How gutting for those that care about them. Ime feral ponies/horses have really lovely qualities though they need to be treated with particular clarity and respect; they don't turn into fluffy fur-babies very easily even when they look like they should lol!! We do have one here that is incredibly cuddly and affectionate and chats to us every time someone sticks their head out of the door!! It takes time though.

 

[Snowfilly]

It does sound odd. I’ve worked with older caught ferals - between 5 and 12 years - and they’ve all been easy enough to break and handle. They’re actually easier, in general, than spoilt brat youngsters who have always been allowed their own way, and horses which have been terrified by previous poor handling and abuse. Plenty of people manage to break mustangs that are rounded up; I’m currently following someone breaking a 11 year old mustang mare who lived on the range from birth til a year ago and it’s going fine.

So what has happened to this herd to make them so difficult to handle?

 

[eahotson]

You have to wonder sometimes what as a species we really are.Perhaps God should try again.

 

[palo1]

It does sound odd. I’ve worked with older caught ferals - between 5 and 12 years - and they’ve all been easy enough to break and handle. They’re actually easier, in general, than spoilt brat youngsters who have always been allowed their own way, and horses which have been terrified by previous poor handling and abuse. Plenty of people manage to break mustangs that are rounded up; I’m currently following someone breaking a 11 year old mustang mare who lived on the range from birth til a year ago and it’s going fine.

So what has happened to this herd to make them so difficult to handle?

Perhaps it's just a case of slight Chinese whispers or that someone has tried and failed with a couple and labelled the whole lot as 'difficult'? If they weren't so blooming far away I would be intrigued enough to want to see the ones that have been sold now! I need another pony like a hole in the head but it is frustrating and sad to hear that perhaps their future is not bright when they may have plenty to offer.

 

[gallopingby]

There are always at least two sides to every story and this one certainly seems to come up from time to time, gaining more arms and legs as it does. Maybe best to comment on situations you know about. These are cross bred ponies, originally from a variety of native breeds.

 

[Caol Ila]

Perhaps it's just a case of slight Chinese whispers or that someone has tried and failed with a couple and labelled the whole lot as 'difficult'? If they weren't so blooming far away I would be intrigued enough to want to see the ones that have been sold now! I need another pony like a hole in the head but it is frustrating and sad to hear that perhaps their future is not bright when they may have plenty to offer.

Sounds like the recently caught ones ended up at dealers around England, so maybe there is one close to you.

In 2011, about 30 were sold at the initial auction, and many of those went on to be useful riding horses. Anyway, it sounds as if people were not quite prepared for the extreme reactivity of some of these horses (or of ferals in general). The way they will go over or through anyone or anything when panicked. If you adopt a BLM mustang, the BLM requires you to have a sturdy pen with six foot fences. They won't let you have a horse otherwise. And many captured mustangs are not adopted. There are thousands living out their lives in holding facilities in the Midwest. Sending them for slaughter is illegal (not that it doesn't happen, but not in large enough numbers to be caught), but they have no place to go. People are not lining up at the door to take on wild horses. Hence my worries about the Dallas horses who were rounded up recently.

 

[skint1]

Ah, this is too sad for words. Poor ponies.

 

[stangs]

There’s not many sales left in England; they would have gone to one of the ones up North surely. NWA's not due to have a sale for a while, so Holmfirth or Clitheroe perhaps.

Poor things. The longer they spend 'wild', during the inevitably traumatic experience that is a sale, or the longer they spend going from unsuitable trainer to unsuitable trainer, the less likely they are to ever be safe and sane mounts or companions. Fingers crossed that some landowner somewhere decides they need ponies for conservation grazing, much better for them than someone who's used to domestics thinking they'll be able to sell them on as happy hackers for a profit. I would love one, as an educational experience if nothing else, but I very much doubt there are any liveries around with the appropriate facilities.

What I'm wondering though is, if they were all initially 'rescued' by WHW, surely they're on loan and so shouldn't be sold on?
.

 

[Caol Ila]

I don't think WHW took posession of them. They remained owned by the estate owner, and profits from the initial 2011 auction went to him. The ones who were not sold went back on the estate. They're his horses to sell or keep or do what he likes. WHW doesn't have any control over them.

They can be cool horses. My horse learns extremely fast, and he seems to process "scary v. not scary" a lot quicker than most domestic horses I've worked with. Once he has decided that something isn't a horse-eating monster, he won't spook at it a second time. Don't know if that's just him, or a characteristic he picked up in the "wild."

 

[palo1]

I don't think WHW took posession of them. They remained owned by the estate owner, and profits from the initial 2011 auction went to him. The ones who were not sold went back on the estate. They're his horses to sell or keep or do what he likes. WHW doesn't have any control over them.

They can be cool horses. My horse learns extremely fast, and he seems to process "scary v. not scary" a lot quicker than most domestic horses I've worked with. Once he has decided that something isn't a horse-eating monster, he won't spook at it a second time. Don't know if that's just him, or a characteristic he picked up in the "wild."

I dunno. Most of ours have been VERY spooky/reactive to start with and then become incredibly bold and confident - like you say, it is a fairly direct kind of learning process. We had one mare that my OH brought in off the hill hoping to make a riding pony for our daughter - she was very different to anything else though. She was very difficult to deal with - remaining very much a 1 person pony which was disappointing. It took ages for my OH to feel confident that she wasn't going to over-react to things that she had already been presented with but she was a lead/dominant mare that was older when we brought her in. She was also absolutely incredible in terms of her brain, stamina and genuine toughness. She really, really made you think too but it was a bit like having a relationship with a velociraptor!! OH really, really liked and admired her but she was never going to be a kid's ride (our children were 7&8 at the time so pretty basic lol) so she went back to the hill. Sadly my FIL sold her because she failed to take after a couple of years of covering. I think we were a bit conflicted about having her offspring in any case but it would have been interesting to see what they may have turned out like. I don't think there are many like her though.

 

[Caol Ila]

I like that description. "A direct kind of learning process." It is different than my slightly ditzy, domestic three-year old, for sure. She forgets that she's seen a saddle pad flapping around a hundred million times, but when you're out and about encountering novel human things, she is much, much braver and less reactive. Her spook is head up and a couple trot steps, rather than shoot forward like a racehorse or spin and get-out-of-dodge. I don't know how he would find the railway bridge, where trains thunder over your head, or the motorway bridge crossing the M80, but I imagine the initial encounter would be interesting. She could not care less about those things.

Fin is not for the fainthearted. He's usually foot perfect and responsive, but when he does those big spooks, you'd better have a velcro butt and not get too phased by it. A nervous rider could get into trouble with him.

 

[palo1]

I like that description. "A direct kind of learning process." It is different than my slightly ditzy, domestic three-year old, for sure. She forgets that she's seen a saddle pad flapping around a hundred million times, but when you're out and about encountering novel human things, she is much, much braver and less reactive. Her spook is head up and a couple trot steps, rather than shoot forward like a racehorse or spin and get-out-of-dodge. I don't know how he would find the railway bridge, where trains thunder over your head, or the motorway bridge crossing the M80, but I imagine the initial encounter would be interesting. She could not care less about those things.

Fin is not for the fainthearted. He's usually foot perfect and responsive, but when he does those big spooks, you'd better have a velcro butt and not get too phased by it. A nervous rider could get into trouble with him.

He sounds great fun!! I think the railway bridge/motorway experience is one that you will need to be sure of the level of trust for but it sounds like you really like him and he probably feels the same.

 

[Caol Ila]

There are no motorways near his yard, but I once rode him to a main road on a sunny Saturday. I'd wanted to try crossing the road since you can access the entire Kilpatrick Hills trail network from the other side. However, with it being a sunny Saturday, every motorcyclist in Glasgow seemed to be using that road as a racetrack and screaming past at more than 60mph. He started rearing whenever one shot by. Needless to say, we did not attempt to cross and scurried back the way we'd come. We'll revisit that some day. The bikes will always be a thing there. Now that I’m switched into them, I’ve realised you can hear them when you get within a mile of that road.

 

[Fieldlife]

There are no motorways near his yard, but I once rode him to a main road on a sunny Saturday. I'd wanted to try crossing the road since you can access the entire Kilpatrick Hills trail network from the other side. However, with it being a sunny Saturday, every motorcyclist in Glasgow seemed to be using that road as a racetrack and screaming past at more than 60mph. He started rearing whenever one shot by. Needless to say, we did not attempt to cross and scurried back the way we'd come. We'll revisit that some day. The bikes will always be a thing there. Now that I’m switched into them, I’ve realised you can hear them when you get within a mile of that road.

With a friend's horse I downloaded a series of motorbike sounds (from you tube I think) and played them in his stable whilst feeding high fibre cubes by hand. Starting very low volume, and gradually turning volume up.

 

[Caol Ila]

Well, I know which dealer ended up with these horses. One I've heard of, and not in a good way. I think there are rules about naming dodgy dealers on here, but if you want to know, or if you've found a Highland pony with a fuzzy background in your horse search, PM me.