Damage on a livery yard

[spillthebeans]

Hi everyone, asking a bit of advice.

I keep my horse on DIY at a small livery yard with about 20 horses. In November I was free schooling my horse when one of the school lights turned off which really frightened my horse, causing him to spook sideways into the fence. Due to the weight the fence gave way and the whole thing plus my horse fell out of the school and got stuck in a dip the other side. Luckily we were able to get him out unharmed and I think I was more traumatized than him!!

After getting the vet out we realised that due to his age, his eyesight was declining and meant that he really struggled when it goes from dark to light quickly or visa versa. So I made changes to our routine to accommodate this and prevent it from happening again.

Today when the yard manager sent me a bill, it included a large charge for wood to repair the school which I was taken aback by. I understand that it my horse that did the damage and was happy to pay towards it but it is significantly higher than expected (for reference it has over tripled my livery). I'm particularly annoyed because the fence hasn't actually been fixed yet.

Would people expect to pay for this? I'm a broke student without work and I'm gonna really struggle to pay it so I want to know if it is reasonable to pay for it before I have to beg borrow or steal the money...

 

[RHM]

Personally I would pay for it but using my own contractor. No way would I be handing over a large sum without getting other quotes.

 

[ITPersonnage]

Sorry but yes I would expect to pay for it, it's a cost that your livery yard owner certainly would not have had if you were not there, why should they have to foot the bill ? The fact that it hasn't been fixed yet is neither here nor there, if they are not making much profit they may well need to wait till you pay before they can afford to get it fixed.

Part of the joy of owning horses, you will have to suck it up Sorry if this is not what you want to hear.

 

[Amun]

First, I would NOT pay anything without them providing an invoice from someone who fixed it. Otherwise, you might end up paying xxx while they pay x for some diy fix. Not long ago there was a story from someone who was charged an exaggerated amount for a repair of a broken door and then YO just nailed a piece of mdf over the hole Another thing that comes to my mind, was the fence in good condition or it just waited for a cat to climb over it and it would collapse anyway? Also, you can get someone to quote you and see if this will be a similar charge or they are just trying to get money from you.

 

[Fjord]

I'm afraid I would fully expect to pay for it. The YO might not have the money either, so may need the money from you in order to get it fixed.

 

[Ossy2]

What’s in your contract? Is damage covered in the livery or are breakages charged extra? Is free schooling allowed at the yard? At our yard there is a rule that there is no free schooling allowed in the outdoor but allowed in our smaller indoor for reasons just like this. I’d be a bit miffed that I didn’t get a heads up on the bill, was there a conversation about the incident afterwards with the YO, what was the outcome of that. I was once riding a young horse in the school at a livery and they kicked out while asking for canter caught a rail on the school fence and broke it in 2. The first thing I did when I finished riding was text the YO and let them know I fully expected to pay for the rail in that instance.

 

[misst]

Personally I would pay for it but using my own contractor. No way would I be handing over a large sum without getting other quotes.

^^^ this
Had you offered to pay anything yet? If you hadn't perhaps it is the YO way of nudging you forwards on this? If so then how was the amount offered reached?
If I was YO I would have expected a conversation from you along the lines of "I'm sorry for what happened. I'll arrange a repair which I will pay for." Then the option for YO to use their own contractor/bill a random amount for estimated repairs or whatever would have been there. A solution should have been sought already as I'm sure the other liveries aren't thrilled either with a broken fence on the school. If you are broke there may be room for monthly payments or something - but it needs a face to face or telephone conversation to sort out.

 

[cobgoblin]

I always either repaired the damage or offered to pay for it.

 

[ITPersonnage]

A solution should have been sought already as I'm sure the other liveries aren't thrilled either with a broken fence on the school

Excellent point. Have you not had that conversation ?

 

[ycbm]

To be honest if you broke it in November I'm wonderiing why you haven't already fixed it yourself more than 2 months later. Sorry that won't be what you hoped to hear.

 

[ihatework]

I’m afraid I would expect to have to cover a reasonable amount towards the repair. That said it wouldn’t be unreasonable for you to get a quote yourself to have it repaired so you can make an informed choice for what is fair

 

[PeterNatt]

I would firstly revert to the written contract and see what you agreed to.
If there is no contract in place then you are not responsible.
The yard owner should have an insurance policy in place which should cover accidents caused by clients and their horses.
If you feel you ought to pay for the replacement of the Post and Rail fencing (3 rails) costs about £15 per metre (plus vat). but as above only pay once it has been completed satisfactorily.

 

[Leandy]

Well I wouldn't be impressed with a yard which has left it this long to repair but that isn't really the point. Yes, I think you are liable to pay for the damage. Most yards will have it in the contract and I certainly wouldn't expect damage like that to be covered in normal DIY rates. As you say, it is much more than they are charging you for livery. Having said that, the yard should only charge you what it actually costs to repair, replacing like for like (including something for their time if they are doing it themselves). So how reasonable this is depends on what the actual cost of the repair compares to what they are charging. They should not be charging you more than it costs them to fix the actual damage your horse caused. If they want to fix it so it is better, or do additional repairs then that is not for you to pay for.

 

[ycbm]

I would firstly revert to the written contract and see what you agreed to.
If there is no contract in place then you are not responsible.
.

You missed out a word "legally" before responsible. Of course she's responsible, her horse broke the fence. Whether she's legally responsible or not is a moot point but the absence of a written contract saying so doesn't automatically mean she isn't.

No wonder people give up keeping liveries.

 

[AmyMay]

I would firstly revert to the written contract and see what you agreed to.
If there is no contract in place then you are not responsible.
The yard owner should have an insurance policy in place which should cover accidents caused by clients and their horses.
If you feel you ought to pay for the replacement of the Post and Rail fencing (3 rails) costs about £15 per metre (plus vat). but as above only pay once it has been completed satisfactorily.

This, all day long.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would want to know why the lights went out, as this was what prompted your horse to spook into the fence. Then I would want to know what condition the fence was in. I would also want to know who was going to mend the fence and how the price had been arrived at. You do need to check your contract to find out what the arrangements for repairs is meant to be. As above the yard should have insurance, I would offer to pay the excess.

 

[bouncing_ball]

Depends why light went out? Coin operated? Fault?

I think loose schooling is not often not popular on livery yards.

 

[sherry90]

Personally I’d have offered to pay at the time (once horse was safe etc) I’d be mortified. I would however have explained why the horse spooked, particularly if a fault with the lights (and I would pay for them to be fixed) if it’s coin operated and the lights simply timed out then that’s not the yards fault and I’m not sure loose schooling under floodlights is a good idea anyway but that’s besides the point. If you aren’t happy with the quote they’ve given, offer to have your own contractor do the work.

 

[Muddywellies]

Why did the school light turn off suddenly?

 

[Wishfilly]

I think the YO should have discussed this with you, rather than just given you the bill with no discussion.

I also would expect to see a quote, or be allowed to get my own quote. That said, I would have been proactive at the time in terms of offering money or offering to fix the fence (assuming a relatively easy fix).

Could you discuss paying in instalments with the YO? It may be that they cannot afford the wood without an upfront payment from you, though!

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I would probably expect to pay something towards it but in all the years I’ve been on livery I’ve never been charged for any accidental or incidental damage caused by my horses. Although I don’t think there’s been anything significant.

However as the light going out contributed to the accident I’d not expect to pay the full amount. I’d also as others have said want to consider the state the fence was in and return it to that state not necessarily an improved one.

I’d want an itemised bill and if it was difficult to afford in one go I’d see if I could negotiate a monthly repayment. Not sure if third party liability would cover it if above any excess limit?

 

[AUB]

I would expect the yard owner to have insurance.

 

[Evie91]

I would expect to pay. Have you contacted your insurance company? Wondering whether it would be covered under third party liability?
Maybe YO has been kind - given you a chance to pay/discuss repairs and didn’t include in December bill, but waited until Jan.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Personally I would pay for it but using my own contractor. No way would I be handing over a large sum without getting other quotes.

This, 3 quotes is what I’m always told. Personally, my YO would have fixed it and rolled his eyes at me, he’s a handy bloke. Leaving one side of the school open with a dip on the other side: is that indicative of his normal practice? For two/three months?

 

[Muddywellies]

I would expect the yard owner to have insurance.

The excess would be higher than a fence repair

 

[Shysmum]

If you know you did it, pay for it. My previous YO tried to charge me for a gate post, that he knocked down with a tractor. I didn't pay, and left the yard.

 

[TPO]

I'm usually the first to think that liveries should pay for damage but this appeara to be an accident and possibly an accident caused by YO negligence.

I mean if they havent made a repair since November it's not a leap that they perhaps havent kept up other items like the lights?

So I agree with the other posters asking why the light went out. If its coin operated and it ran out that's on OP but if there was a fault that's either on YO or a genuine accident.

If it's the latter then that's why yards have insurance; to cover accidents. It's not OPs problem what the excess is.

Imagine OP had been riding or jumping when the light cut out?

I'm fully on board for paying for damage if someone has a wall kicker, cribber, fence breaker etc but on the surface this appears to have been an accident (unless it's related to a coin meter)

If the light went out because of YO then I'd have expected them to cover the vet bill for getting the horse checked out after a fall not me paying for their fencing that would still be intact if not for their lights.

If their light was an accident I dont see how the fence damage isnt one too.

 

[neddy man]

If your bill shows timber sizes and prices get your OH or dad to see if they can get the timber cheaper.

 

[Lucky Snowball]

I agree that the contract is the way forward, the cost will probably not be worth involving anyone's insurance for. Personally, I would expect the livery to offer something but I would definitely not accept their offer. As long as no-one and no horse was injured then it's not worth worrying about.

 

[Dave's Mam]

I'd wonder what happened to the light.