Dantrolene update (PSSM/MIM treatment)...OMG...!!!

[catembi]

The vet bought the dantrolene today when she came for Shetland's teeth & jabs, so I tried it with Thor this evening. 15 tablets 90 minutes before I wanted to work him.

Thor is an 11 yo ex racer, 17hh, whether you believe or agree with the hair test for type 2, he tested p2/p3/px. I have had him a year and a half. He was fine when I got him & showing great promise, but as his work increased, he just couldn't cope. He was originally very calm & laid back, but he went very edgy/spooky. I retired him as he simply couldn't work. I hopped on him now & again to see how he was. He would do 20 minutes in walk & would do 4-5 strides of trot max if asked. Also would grind to a halt before the 20 minutes were up & have to be persuaded to carry on.

OMG. He is *totally* back to how he was before he went symptomatic! It was a bit windy today & he wasn't spooked by the trees in the orchard blowing about. He also wasn't bothered by a pigeon flapping about in the hedge. He was previously very non spooky which is why I bought him, but when he went symptomatic it was as if he was looking for things to spook at. We did 30 minutes & I was v careful as I was aware that he's not at all fit. We did some work in trot with plenty of walk breaks. I was scared to ask for canter in case it was like pressing the ejector seat button, but he cantered! He was forward & the big, springy, loose paces are still there! He offered canter once when I wasn't asking for it. Lateral work is there. The power is there. OMG.

It was such a treat to wear my proper riding things I've been riding in jeans & trainers for ages as what's the point in getting changed if you're barely going to get out of walk? (I have been riding Trev the ex racer who is p3/px & who will do a single lap of the arena in trot & one in canter on each rein.)

I am not sure where we go from here. I'm aware that this is only one evening, but he appears to be fully back & capable of work. I could start lessons again! I am not sure if I would be brave enough to hack as we ended with a horrid hack when he shied at pretty much nothing & only my giant knee blocks saved me. And of course I can't compete on a prohibited substance. Could I compete HC, does anyone know? Or does it matter unaff or Dressage Anywhere?

But yeah! So far a total success. We shall see what tomorrow brings

 

[ycbm]

Yes you can "compete" HC on any medication because you don't do anyone out of a rosette.

I hope the results continue. Please keep us updated it's really interesting.

 

[SEL]

I was really hoping you'd see good results - the polo pony I know who needed dantrolene was a different horse on it.

Fingers crossed it continues.

 

[rextherobber]

This is really interesting, one of mine did a robaxim trial which made no difference, I wonder if dantrolene is worth a try...So glad it's working for Thor, you really deserve a break!

 

[asmp]

I’m intrigued - how did you manage to get 15 tablets in him in one go? I find it hard enough with one Prascend!

 

[Reacher]

The vet bought the dantrolene today when she came for Shetland's teeth & jabs, so I tried it with Thor this evening. 15 tablets 90 minutes before I wanted to work him.

Thor is an 11 yo ex racer, 17hh, whether you believe or agree with the hair test for type 2, he tested p2/p3/px. I have had him a year and a half. He was fine when I got him & showing great promise, but as his work increased, he just couldn't cope. He was originally very calm & laid back, but he went very edgy/spooky. I retired him as he simply couldn't work. I hopped on him now & again to see how he was. He would do 20 minutes in walk & would do 4-5 strides of trot max if asked. Also would grind to a halt before the 20 minutes were up & have to be persuaded to carry on.

OMG. He is *totally* back to how he was before he went symptomatic! It was a bit windy today & he wasn't spooked by the trees in the orchard blowing about. He also wasn't bothered by a pigeon flapping about in the hedge. He was previously very non spooky which is why I bought him, but when he went symptomatic it was as if he was looking for things to spook at. We did 30 minutes & I was v careful as I was aware that he's not at all fit. We did some work in trot with plenty of walk breaks. I was scared to ask for canter in case it was like pressing the ejector seat button, but he cantered! He was forward & the big, springy, loose paces are still there! He offered canter once when I wasn't asking for it. Lateral work is there. The power is there. OMG.

It was such a treat to wear my proper riding things I've been riding in jeans & trainers for ages as what's the point in getting changed if you're barely going to get out of walk? (I have been riding Trev the ex racer who is p3/px & who will do a single lap of the arena in trot & one in canter on each rein.)

I am not sure where we go from here. I'm aware that this is only one evening, but he appears to be fully back & capable of work. I could start lessons again! I am not sure if I would be brave enough to hack as we ended with a horrid hack when he shied at pretty much nothing & only my giant knee blocks saved me. And of course I can't compete on a prohibited substance. Could I compete HC, does anyone know? Or does it matter unaff or Dressage Anywhere?

But yeah! So far a total success. We shall see what tomorrow brings

Great update and hope it continues. If i remember correctly you have had some bad luck with horses so deserve something to go right for you

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

What great news! Regardless of any competition possibility, the horse must feel so much better, which is wonderful in itself. I look forward to further updates and am hoping that the effect continues.

 

[MagicMelon]

OP, how did you get him tested for this please? I have a horse who suddenly grinds to a halt/slow walk half way round XC courses for no apparent reason (not napping - its like she just totally runs out of energy).

 

[catembi]

I will PM you.

 

[catembi]

Today I gave him the pills again & this time put up two little cross poles. I put my jumps away in the hay barn ages ago with a feeling of finality so it was really weird in a good way getting them out again. I also had to literally dust off my jumping saddle - new and only used a handful of times, and very, very dusty & cobwebby. So strange to be sitting in a jumping saddle again! I have been doing the 20 min plods in walk in my dr saddle. We did some flatwork in walk, trot & canter, & I was wondering why my steering was going all over the place & the front end was prancing about in canter. Then I realised that he was trying to get to the jumps.

We did the x poles in trot. He really ballooned the first few, and then seemed to remember what to do. We didn't do too much as obviously he's completely unfit & has done nothing more strenuous than chasing the Shetland lately.

The only trouble is, the pills are £125 for 100, he needs 15 before riding & if I were to ride him 5 days a week, that's going to be very £££££££££. I wonder if there's a quasi-legal alternative, like the ab-prazole for people who don't want to be paying £1k a month for gastroguard...? He is a very good horse & I would rather have him on expensive pills than a new horse who's an unknown quantity, & they've all got something wrong with them health wise, haven't they...

I can't believe that I got my jumps out & was jumping!!! So now it's looking like we might be able to work towards getting some fitness, restarting lessons, going to clinics, using the lorry for something other than the poo run...!

 

[SEL]

That's fantastic!!

I knew they were expensive though. You can get genetic robaxin so that's cheap but I think dantrolene is still under whatever licence it's under

But I wonder if you'll need them forever or if you'll be able to reduce the dosage / not use every session as his body heals. Might be worth asking on the US PSSM forum because they are way further ahead with drug therapy than we are.

Brought a big smile to my face reading this

 

[maya2008]

Today I gave him the pills again & this time put up two little cross poles. I put my jumps away in the hay barn ages ago with a feeling of finality so it was really weird in a good way getting them out again. I also had to literally dust off my jumping saddle - new and only used a handful of times, and very, very dusty & cobwebby. So strange to be sitting in a jumping saddle again! I have been doing the 20 min plods in walk in my dr saddle. We did some flatwork in walk, trot & canter, & I was wondering why my steering was going all over the place & the front end was prancing about in canter. Then I realised that he was trying to get to the jumps.

We did the x poles in trot. He really ballooned the first few, and then seemed to remember what to do. We didn't do too much as obviously he's completely unfit & has done nothing more strenuous than chasing the Shetland lately.

The only trouble is, the pills are £125 for 100, he needs 15 before riding & if I were to ride him 5 days a week, that's going to be very £££££££££. I wonder if there's a quasi-legal alternative, like the ab-prazole for people who don't want to be paying £1k a month for gastroguard...? He is a very good horse & I would rather have him on expensive pills than a new horse who's an unknown quantity, & they've all got something wrong with them health wise, haven't they...

I can't believe that I got my jumps out & was jumping!!! So now it's looking like we might be able to work towards getting some fitness, restarting lessons, going to clinics, using the lorry for something other than the poo run...!

Every evidence my vet ever saw said that exercise, if you can get them to do enough, improves pssm hugely. It worked for us and for her other clients. You may find you need it less as he gets fitter. For my mare, she needed 5-6x a week of heart rate raising exercise, for at least 20min of faster work in order to be able to function.

 

[catembi]

Yes, exercise is important. Before I got my arena, I had a QHxTB who had type 1 & type 2/MIM. I was riding him every day, then the wheels came off very, very badly when the clocks changed, so I couldn't ride after work, & the weather changed to cold/wet.

You really *cannot* work a PSSM once they have gone symptomatic as it really seems to hurt them, so it's a bit of a vicious circle :-(

I will look into robaxin. I really wish I understood more about science sometimes :-(

 

[catembi]

Okay, so the instructions from the vets are to give 15 x 100mg tablets of dantrolene... The robaxin tablets are 500mg. Does this mean that I would only need 3, or is there more to it than that...?

 

[Nasicus]

Okay, so the instructions from the vets are to give 15 x 100mg tablets of dantrolene... The robaxin tablets are 500mg. Does this mean that I would only need 3, or is there more to it than that...?

Robaxin (Methocarbamol) and Dantrolene (Dantrolene Sodium) are two different medications, one's an anti-spasmodic and one's an anti-spastic. You'll need to speak to your vet about the correct dose of Robaxin.

 

[catembi]

Okay, thank you. It's sooooooo much cheaper! 31p a tablet. I can manage £1 a day. If I need to stick with Dantrolene, say that I ride 5 x week & take Trev out instead on the other two days... In a 4 week month, that's 4 x 5 x 15 tablets, = 300 tablets, which is £125 x 3, = £375/month... Eeeppp...!!! Let's not work out how much that is per year...

 

[Fjord]

Eeeek to the price but yay to the results!

 

[druid]

You might be able to source the Dantrolene from a human pharmacy a bit cheaper as it's not a licensed vet med. Depends if your vet is happy to script it out and what they charge to do so.

From memory I think I was paying £70 for 100 x 100mg tablets

 

[SEL]

Okay, so the instructions from the vets are to give 15 x 100mg tablets of dantrolene... The robaxin tablets are 500mg. Does this mean that I would only need 3, or is there more to it than that.

Robaxin (Methocarbamol) and Dantrolene (Dantrolene Sodium) are two different medications, one's an anti-spasmodic and one's an anti-spastic. You'll need to speak to your vet about the correct dose of Robaxin.

I'm not sure you'd get the same effects with robaxin. Dantrolene I believe has some effect on calcium levels which is why it's used for RER. Widely used in the racing industry though so I would guess Newmarket would know if it needs constant use

 

[catembi]

If it's used in racing, is it competition legal or do they use it for a specific purpose & then observe the withdrawal period before they race again?

 

[SEL]

If it's used in racing, is it competition legal or do they use it for a specific purpose & then observe the withdrawal period before they race again?

It's prohibited - looks to have a 48 hour detection time

 

[Tiddlypom]

It's great that he's doing so well, but after so long in discomfort he needs to have his fitness increased gradually by steady slow work in straight lines.

Jumping and cantering in the arena sounds rather premature for a horse who has done so little for so long. You could end up creating other problems if you do too much too soon.

 

[catembi]

He is 17hh and very strapping. I am 7 1/2 stone, so he would barely notice my weight. If he can gallop round the field bucking and playing, it’s not going to kill him to do a bit of trot and canter. He was offering canter without my asking and I stopped him before he wanted to stop.

I also don’t think that popping a tiny x pole half a dozen times is the end of the world for a horse who could comfortably jump 1 m 20. It’s not as if I took him team chasing.

I cannot work him in straight lines as that would mean hacking and I am not psychologically ready for that. It sounds as if you’re lucky enough never to have been on an exploding PSSM out hacking or you would understand. I need to learn to trust him again. I have no help and no one to hack with. My hacking companion’s horse died a few months ago. I have contacted a confidence restoring person that I read about on here and might see if one of my trainers will walk out with me.

Until then, we stay in the arena.

Oh dear. I was so excited to have jumped a teeny tiny x pole. Just getting my jumps out and dusting off my jumping saddle was exciting as I didn’t think I would get to do it until I had saved up £10-£12k for another horse. This is why I post less and make a conscious effort to keep a lot of things to myself. Future updates will have less detail.

 

[meleeka]

OP do ask your vet about a written prescription if you haven’t already. It’ll save you £££

Great news though, it must be extra special as you’d accepted it was all gone. I hope you can now crack on and have fun with him.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Such great news OP!

My gelding was on Dantrolene in a syringe.. one before exercise, don’t think it was quite that expensive!

 

[catembi]

Also, let’s not forget that I am TRYING OUT the pills to see if they help. He can already walk without pills so I need to check if he can do MORE with the pills than without. So can he do MORE than walk while on them…? The pills are £125 for 100 and at the moment we are using 15 per ride. So I have 6 rides to work out whether they make enough difference to be worth it. If he could ALREADY work in the arena in walk for 20 minutes doing lateral work etc (but spooky/edgy) I need to do MORE to see how he is.

And let’s not forget either that he is turned out on sloping fields. Walking up and down hills all day is what you’re supposed to do for fitness work, no?

 

[Haniki]

Please keep posting and updating us, it’s why many of us use this forum - to expand our knowledge.
I have always enjoyed your posts!

 

[catembi]

I have also been dying to put a video clip on of me riding as I am so joyful and grateful and cautiously hopeful. And I have no one else to share with. I am not going to, ever, as even if I asked for no -ve comments, I would still get them on choice of tack, bit, saddle fit, barefoot, horse weight, rider weight, position, arena surface etc etc. Of course, people have a right to comment, but I have the right not to have my joy stamped on.

I learned the hard way by posting a photo of my new 4 yo. We had finished working and I was beaming away. He was resting a back foot. I was told that my position was so bad and lopsided that I shouldn’t be riding as I would ruin him and that I sat worse than the poster’s RDA riders.

So no photos or videos

 

[Tiddlypom]

It sounds as if you’re lucky enough never to have been on an exploding PSSM out hacking or you would understand.

Oh, but I have . My post was firmly based in my dealings with my PSSM horse. Once you've got the symptoms under control, careful rehab is essential.

Good luck anyway.

 

[tristar]

truly amazing, so pleased for your and the horse