Dark Arts ?? Saddle fitting and dentists

[Gingerwitch]

Its happend to me on several occasions, you use someone different and its amazing that the last person that did x or y did not do the job correctly - the teeth are really bad because of x or no way did the saddle or would ever have fit y.

A friend of mine went to a lesson with her 3 month old top of the range saddle, to be told that no way is that saddle ever going to fit her horse - when all the reasons have been pointed out - it does make sence - she has had another saddler out and whilst they will part chop her old saddle - a new one is a wait of at least 6 weeks and another bit outlay.

Same with the teeth - one of mine was checked at the diy yard as he did seam a bit uncomfortable of the mouth - and his teeth were extreamly sharp even though he was only done 2 months ago ?? so you start to think - well did i get what i paid for last time - is it the last dentist - is it the new dentsit or is it just the way the pony's teeth are ?

Both areas of horse care seam such a dark art and whilst i do every thing I can to keep on top of what is happening and make my own judgement calls i am only an amature owner - and will never see the amount of horses the pro's do - this is why i pay for the proffesionals - I just wish i could understand more for when it goes wrong.

 

[Goldenstar]

I once loaned a horse to a friend at that time I used a EDT I gave the horse a full MOT before he went , EDT , PHysio , saddle check as I was going to away long term abroad .
After three weeks I was talking to someone who told me that my friend was telling people that the horses mouth was in a dreadful state and I obviously never had my horses teeth checked etc etc .
I was confused and a bit peeved so I rang the friend with the horse and Said what's this I hear ( yes I am on another continent but you know the horse world ) oh well the EDT was coming to do the annual checks and I got him to look at your horse and he said mouth was a disgrace etc etc so I thought well her EDT obviously has a sort of sales patter but I was still confused I asked who she used, probally you have guessed now where this is going .
We used the same person he failed to recognise a horse he had done three weeks before on a different yard it was the start of me completely losing faith in EDT's.
I am also wary of saddlers I wont use anyone who sells only one brand but the trust the one I havenot completely .

 

[Tiddlypom]

the EDT was coming to do the annual checks and I got him to look at your horse and he said mouth was a disgrace etc

We used the same person he failed to recognise a horse he had done three weeks before on a different yard it was the start of me completely losing faith in EDT's.

That is just :eek3:.

There are far too many apparently 'qualified' dodgy people around, who will shaft a trusting horse owner who believe they are doing the right thing in having an 'expert' out.

 

[Arizahn]

This reminds me of the nightmare that was buying my last dressage saddle. Said item of tack apparently decreased in value by 90% of what I paid for it between checks. This was over the course of three months, during which it was ridden in perhaps a dozen times, and cleaned and oiled each time, and carefully stored. Horse even went well in it, when she wasn't off work for other reasons.

Yes you guessed it! I changed saddler in between checks. And the new saddler had a lovely one that would suit perfectly...

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Local EDT was great at first, he explained his OH was horsey and he went to train, I was probably one of his first customers, he explained all about teeth and made me check manually, next time he had electric tools, all ok, he explained everything, I had a series of youngsters at that stage, then next time I rang he had an apprentice, failed to make appointment......

So I got a vet she got a student to jab him [flu and tet] without asking me first, ......... waved a rasp in the general area, backed my poor horse in to a corner I was so angry, I could not speak to her, but I spoke to student.
Next time a jab was due, another vet turned up, again feeble rasping, no speculum!
Year on, proper vet does a proper job on teeth, but he has only rasp, not electric and horse was not happy.
So I had a good EDT, teethwise, and two useless vets and one who was in the dark ages with tools, what do you do?

 

[Goldenstar]

P

Local EDT was great at first, he explained his OH was horsey and he went to train, I was probably one of his first customers, he explained all about teeth and made me check manually, next time he had pelectric tools, all ok, he explained everything, I had a series of youngsters at that stage, then next time I rang he had an apprentice, failed to make appointment......

So I got a vet she got a student to jab him [flu and tet] without asking me first, ......... waved a rasp in the general area, backed my poor horse in to a corner I was so angry, I could not speak to her, but I spoke to student.
Next time a jab was due, another vet turned up, again feeble rasping, no speculum!
Year on, proper vet does a proper job on teeth, but he has only rasp, not electric and horse was not happy.
So I had a good EDT, teethwise, and two useless vets and one who was in the dark ages with tools, what do you do?

You arm yourself with knowledge , a lot of knowledge and use it to learn who to trust .
I had to have a couple of horses ruined by the farrier in the past to learn that lesson.

 

[Pigeon]

Had the same thing, brand new saddle fitted to my horse, two weeks later went to pony club camp and the instructors all agreed that the saddle didn't fit. Got second opinion, and eventually a refund, luckily, but was still a lot of stress.

 

[TandD]

Yep same problem with dentists and saddlers!

Well known and well regarded dentist down here did ours every 6 months......had a different person out as we needed someone quite quickly.....turned out horse had hooks on back teeth meaning he couldn't close his mouth properly, he has been much better since these were rasped off!

Same with saddler! Spent ££££'s with saddler over the years so you would think he would be more helpful........got a different guy as the saddle just wasn't coming right...... Turned out first guy had just put in great big hard lumps of flocking!!!

 

[Penny Less]

An interesting thread. I found that one farrier would always rubbish the previous farrier, and being a novice I didn't know what to believe. I have an EDT BEVA registered, and really have to go with what he says as I am not up for sticking my arm in my horses mouth without him having sedation ! Had same with saddler too, one very well known one who fitted my very swaybacked horse with various pads etc. and the next one saying take them all out !

 

[sbloom]

I will say that most of these things are more art than science in many ways. Read as much as you can, know the basics of how a good saddle and a good hoof should look (I think teeth are harder, but I WILL say that I'd not necessarily recognise a horse whose saddle I had fitted three weeks earlier, some I might, some I might not), and be able to judge who is doing a good job. I do think a good fitter/dentist/farrier/trimmer is able to explain what they're doing and why, and to be educating the customer on every visit, IF the customer is interested. Some aren't and just want a magic fix.

Everyone has their own system of working - I don't fit the same as another saddle fitter, not even EXACTLY the same as someone fitting the same brand of saddles trained by the same person. We bring our own experience to it, our own eye, our own feel.

Just a couple of notes - please don't use oil on your saddle, and also, I have disagreed with Pony Club instructors on saddle fit - they have very simplified rules of how a well fitting saddle should look (a certain number of fingers under the pommel, no use of asymmetric girthing and all sorts of other arbitrary rules) and it is NOT helpful when you are fitting very tricky horses and ponies as I do.

DO find a saddle fitter who, when selling you a new saddle, tells you about distance trading regulations and as a result offers you your legal entitlement of a week's trial. Many don't.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I WILL say that I'd not necessarily recognise a horse whose saddle I had fitted three weeks earlier.

No problem with not recognising a horse that you've seen recently but in this case the EDT was caught out rubbishing his own work from 3 weeks earlier, believing it to have been done by someone else!

 

[Marydoll]

More art than science, that might be the case, but the professional person should be like picasso and einstein then if theyre charging for their advice. For the person to be told by one saddler that a saddle fits and another a few weeks later to say its completely wrong ...... Someone somewhere is not up to the job, if i pay for a professionals opinion i do expect them to be able to eg. fit a saddle, after all thats what theyre being paid to do and lets face it, a good saddle isnt cheap and a poorly fitting saddle can do a lot of damage to both horse and rider.
Teeth are another thing that i expect to be done properly, the vet or EDT should be able to feel sharp edges and hooks even if they cant see them, to not do the job properly is inexcusable, and any vet or EDT who does teeth without a gag in place imo isnt doing the job properly.

 

[Dizzle]

My saddler must be VERY rare then, when I first called him out I needed saddle to be sorted in a rush because we had our first fun away from home thing booked in for ages a few days later, I told him I had cash waiting in case I needed a new saddle and was perfectly happy to fork out for a new one if I needed it.

So he charged me £40 to refit my current one and it's amazing, horse goes like a dream in it (it has a flexi tree so he was able to narrow it and reflock).

I will be going back to him at some point next year to get a new saddle for her as she can take a slightly longer saddle than we currently have but he was in no rush to try and sell me a different saddle!

 

[dieseldog]

I once loaned a horse to a friend at that time I used a EDT I gave the horse a full MOT before he went , EDT , PHysio , saddle check as I was going to away long term abroad .
After three weeks I was talking to someone who told me that my friend was telling people that the horses mouth was in a dreadful state and I obviously never had my horses teeth checked etc etc .
I was confused and a bit peeved so I rang the friend with the horse and Said what's this I hear ( yes I am on another continent but you know the horse world ) oh well the EDT was coming to do the annual checks and I got him to look at your horse and he said mouth was a disgrace etc etc so I thought well her EDT obviously has a sort of sales patter but I was still confused I asked who she used, probally you have guessed now where this is going .
We used the same person he failed to recognise a horse he had done three weeks before on a different yard it was the start of me completely losing faith in EDT's.
.

Had the exact same thing happen, this was an EDT, he was sat there saying this horses teeth are horrific, who on earth have you been using as they are so bad..... ummmm you did him last...... he goes very quiet. Never used him again.

The horse was also a very distinctive appaloosa on the same yard.

Then had another EDT dentist do another horse, took the money, then next time we used someone else and they pointed out that my mare had lost a tooth and the top one had grown down into the gap meaning she had no movement in her jaw apart from sideways. He showed me it was about 3cms longer than all the other teeth and this guy just ignored it. Dont use an EDT now, just a normal dentist and he is really good.

 

[Christmas Crumpet]

I've just been having this chat with a friend of mine who has said she isn't sure whether she trusts her saddler or not because none of her newly fitted saddles for her horses seem to fit. I had a bad experience with him so won't use him again.

I have used a lady for various horses and she is supposed to be good. However, I have realised that the three horses she has fitted for me have always had fist sized dry patches at the front of the panels no matter what saddle she has fitted and I have always questioned this and whether the saddles are too wide/narrow and she has always come up with some random answer. The most recent answer she came up with was that the saddle did fit and the reason that area had dry patches was because the horse wasn't using those muscles. Clearly the saddles didn't fit properly. She used all sorts of fitter jargon but I believed she was right because she was the qualified one.

Needless to say I have given up with her because I don't trust her judgement anymore and am about to use a new lady who is also a back lady so hopefully its the best of both worlds.