Ddft/navicular - need ideas as horse keeps reinjuring!

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mystiandsunny

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So - typical bloody TB. Goes crazy on box rest if feeling anything other than v ill (as in, dangerous - rearing, trying to break door down, nightmare to handle), supposed to be out anyway as has locking stifles. If out, will be v good until feeling much more sound and able to canter without going 'ouch' - then starts being her normal self and ends up v lame again. Gets ulcers and colic with pain/stress atm so not allowed bute or anything sedating long-term.

Have tried:
- box rest with work (went v well until she felt well - at this point she was rearing and plunging and dangerous).
- small paddock with work (went well for weeks and then she had a 'moment' in the paddock and went dog lame again).
- field rest (awful, got worse by the day as her back end locked up)
- large field plus work (as with small field, all good until she went nuts and hurt herself again).

Work is enough to keep the back end moving freely without making her more lame. Depends on how well she is as to what we do.

My head says I will have to pts. She just won't be sensible for long enough to heal. I love her so much though, she's my life. Any ideas? She is currently actually limping after yesterday's hooley in the field.
 
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if she has multiple pronlems with conflicting manaagement and field rest is not an option I would probably pts - it's unlikely she will ever be long term sound - unless your vet has antoehr solution.
 
None at first, then ulcers started, hooves broke up, shod now. Ulcers have been gone about a month now - would taking the shoes off and letting her hooves break up stop her re-injuring? Without the stupid behaviour she steadily improves each time - until she feels well enough to behave like an idiot again.

To add - I looked into Rockley Farm. Can't see that she won't do the same there - get better and better then lose it and injure.
 
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Is she out 24/7? Depends on the set up but in a quiet place without a lot of coming and going I wouldn't expect her to "lose it" if she was out all the time with adequate forage and shelter. Personally I would always pull the shoes for navicular and I would follow the Rockley principles to rehab the horse.

Shoes aren't a cure for navicular. At best they are temporary respite.

Get the diet as good as you can, consider if you can get her on a track system so she has to walk around a lot but can't run around like an idiot easily and then take it from there. If you are talking PTS then you and particularly she, have nothing to lose!

It is my lay persons understanding that these issues are due to her feet being at the wrong angles over a prolonged period of time. Once she has them at the right angles (through self trimming) she should be able to run around to her hearts content without reinjuring herself. The situation isn't caused by her running around but by the fact her feet aren't functioning correctly.
 
FfionWinnie said:
Is she out 24/7? Depends on the set up but in a quiet place without a lot of coming and going I wouldn't expect her to "lose it" if she was out all the time with adequate forage and shelter. Personally I would always pull the shoes for navicular and I would follow the Rockley principles to rehab the horse.

Shoes aren't a cure for navicular. At best they are temporary respite.

Get the diet as good as you can, consider if you can get her on a track system so she has to walk around a lot but can't run around like an idiot easily and then take it from there. If you are talking PTS then you and particularly she, have nothing to lose!

It is my lay persons understanding that these issues are due to her feet being at the wrong angles over a prolonged period of time. Once she has them at the right angles (through self trimming) she should be able to run around to her hearts content without reinjuring herself. The situation isn't caused by her running around but by the fact her feet aren't functioning correctly.
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Yes, out 24/7 with friends she's had most of her life, in a fairly isolated field with only me coming down once a day. She's the boss, but her pair bond will look after her if she's ill, and they all love her. There's no reason to run, just her personality. She has always needed to run to stay sane. We have had memorable times over the years when I haven't been well enough to do lots of fast work, or she's done too much in the way of transitions without a good run, and she's gone off on one. Have a great episode on video somewhere!!! She just leaps, bucks, twists and turns herself inside out, then GOES. She started this last week (was trotting, sound, under saddle by that point). She suddenly shot off with a leap and a twist under saddle, then started galloping round the field once turned out. That hurt a bit, but not disastrous. Yesterday she did far more damage.

On box rest, she's always been dangerous. She cracked her head open once (on the stable door!), and whilst healing for that, in the middle of winter, I had to turn her out in a tiny paddock to stop her being completely mad in the stable. She ended up doing laps of the thing - gallop, sliding stop, gallop, sliding stop. Over and over until she felt better. Every day. And that was with company outside her door all day long, and with company in the little paddock. The company rarely joins in - they think she's nuts!

The leg with the injury is diagonally across from the worst locking leg. Vet reckoned repeated stress weakened it, then she had a moment, and did the damage. Shoes only went on because her hooves disintegrated and she couldn't walk without wincing. Hoof quality still poor (thanks to the ulcers) - there is a band of better stuff growing down from the top, but it's far off the bottom. Farrier is amazing, pro shoes off where possible, but concerned they'll just disintegrate if I take the shoes off. Maybe that'd stop her running around though - if they all hurt. But then there'd be more pain and less movement - locking legs and ulcers again. And a track system would be gallop heaven.
 
Ulcers and treatment for ulcers shouldn't automatically cause the hooves to break up I wouldn't have thought. It certainly had no impact on my sister's gelding, and he was unshod at the time. What is the rest of her diet like? I wonder if there is some sort of mineral imbalance there - that might, possibly, explain some of her extreme behaviour too. The only thing I could suggest is a proper barefoot rehab programme, but you would need the diet to be good and to follow a strict exercise regime. It may not be possible for this horse if her temperament won't allow it, but it has proven to be extremely effective for horses with similar injuries. It's worth waiting for some other members to see your post, as some people on here are very experienced with barefoot rehab and can offer some excellent suggestions if you're willing to try it.
 
HashRouge said:
Ulcers and treatment for ulcers shouldn't automatically cause the hooves to break up I wouldn't have thought. It certainly had no impact on my sister's gelding, and he was unshod at the time. What is the rest of her diet like? I wonder if there is some sort of mineral imbalance there - that might, possibly, explain some of her extreme behaviour too. The only thing I could suggest is a proper barefoot rehab programme, but you would need the diet to be good and to follow a strict exercise regime. It may not be possible for this horse if her temperament won't allow it, but it has proven to be extremely effective for horses with similar injuries. It's worth waiting for some other members to see your post, as some people on here are very experienced with barefoot rehab and can offer some excellent suggestions if you're willing to try it.
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All bloods done, she's lovely and calm with the freedom to run - always been a hard keeper but a wonderful girl. Was barefoot all her life until this started. The others play too, but not as much and they don't explode on box rest. She has had the same temperament all her life, yet with rock hard hooves, sound as anything, safe as houses if she lives out and gets enough exercise. When the vets first came I said I thought it was systemic - struggling to put on muscle, hooves breaking up, lame. With the resolution of the ulcers we have a band of good hoof, muscle piling on. They were everywhere though the vet said, worst they had seen. If she had not run aound like a nutter, she would still be improving daily, being able to do more, being more sound and in less pain.

It isn't the rehab that is the issue (vet advice is working there), it is the stupid TB running around. I have worked myself into the ground to pay for her treatment, to get her the supplements she needs and to work her every day. To make sure she is never left alone, never worried or stressed. I can't make her be sensible though :(. My dad would pay for Rockley if we could be sure it was worth it, but she will just do the same there. Next time I love a horse, it will be something sensible with a bit of self preservation. Too heart breaking to love them so much yet be unable to help them because in a second they undo all you have worked for. Over and over again.
 
Sounds like you've made your mind up.

Incidentally a track system doesn't need to be like a race track, it can be whatever you need and designed to increase or inhibit movement.
 
This has been going on since Jan. Was hoping for someone with some experience of this really. Someone to say , "Yes, we had that but this solved it," or, "They don't do that at Rockley because....".

Not endless 'bare foot is the only answer'. She was barefoot when it all started, has been nearly all her life. She was getting better (finally), I had real hope this time. But now back to the beginning. Five months of pain, how many more is fair?

Part of me wants to try Rockley, part thinks it will just be more pain, but this time away from her friends, her pair bond. And Rockley is only 3 months - plenty of opportunity to wreck it all once she gets home even if she does ok there. 18 months to heal DDFT - can I keep her sensible for that long? We made it to 2 months this time before she was stupid, all undone in a day.
 
You need to work out why she was able to pull her ddft even though she was barefoot.

I know of two, one personally. The first arrived at Rockley with a weak back half of the foot. The second was the same but I know exactly why. He was in livery with extremely limited turnout for eight months. He was ridden only a few times a week, after dark, on surface and not for long. His feet became weak. He was turned out in spring, went for a hooley and it went ping.

He was sound after eight weeks of a proper barefoot rehab at Rockley and has been sound for years since.

If your horse has a similar history, barefoot has a good chance. In shoes the chances are minimal.

If you are unable to put your heart into a barefoot rehab, then your best option would be to put the horse down. I would not blame you if that was your choice.
 
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What YCBM says. There is absolutely no shame in having a horse PTS when its not right and you cant commit or cant manage the work and heartache involved in trying to get them right. Sometimes you just cant do it in your current situation no matter how hard you try. Horses dont stand about in the field dreaming about tomorrow. They live in the now, and if that now is sore feet/legs and having to be managed in a situation that makes them unhappy then its a kindness to PTS so dont ever feel guilty about that. There really are way, way worse fates than death for horses
 
You didn't include that information in the original post and we are not mind readers.

Correct angles are the only answer. Barefoot is the easiest way to achieve them. Just because she was barefoot before does not mean the angles were correct.

Many experienced people have posted on your thread but obviously you wanted them to say something else. What do you want us to say? The horse is shod, that hasn't worked. The horse supposedly went lame while barefoot so that won't work either? People on this forum are trying to give you solutions other than PTS as you claimed you don't wish to do that.

Your horse is just a horse same as all the others that go to Rockley. I'm sure they've seen her ilk before. Phone them up and ask. Maybe they will agree with you there is nothing to be done. Or are they not experienced enough for you either?
 
FfionWinnie said:
You didn't include that information in the original post and we are not mind readers.

Correct angles are the only answer. Barefoot is the easiest way to achieve them. Just because she was barefoot before does not mean the angles were correct.

Many experienced people have posted on your thread but obviously you wanted them to say something else. What do you want us to say? The horse is shod, that hasn't worked. The horse supposedly went lame while barefoot so that won't work either? People on this forum are trying to give you solutions other than PTS as you claimed you don't wish to do that.

Your horse is just a horse same as all the others that go to Rockley. I'm sure they've seen her ilk before. Phone them up and ask. Maybe they will agree with you there is nothing to be done. Or are they not experienced enough for you either?
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this......

people are suggesting barefoot as that is what has worked for them. if she was barefoot before and the problem occurred then there was probably a problem with the foot angle which can occur for many reasons.

being extremely blunt, from personal experience with a horse that, as yours, had intermittent lameness after being diagnosed with a severe ddft injury (and also had a separate back end injury) keeping him in shoes kept him intermittently lame, going barefoot, properly feeding the correct amount of vitamins and correctly feeding and a lot of very hard work on my part and horse is still now, 7 years later sound and in work.i have to keep him working to keep his feet strong enough and at the correct angles to ensure the injury doesnt reoccur.

so yes, i do think there is a possibility that your horse is fixable, what comes across from your posts is that you have maybe already made your mind up about pts so whatever anyone tells you about there experiences will be irrelevant. the horse may be fixable but it may be the hard work and dedication to putting her right at the moment may not be something you can do right now, thats understandable, not everyone has the ability or opportunity to rehab in this way. you need to do whats right for you but you asked for opinions so people are just sharing their experiences. people are giving their honest opinion rather then just agreeing that you should pts but then maybe that is what you were hoping for ? the decision is a personal one and yours....
 
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Goldenstar said:
I would certainly try shoes before I PTS .
I would also try a yard with a walker .
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i believe from her second post OP says horse is in shoes currently, walker or yard with gravel or hard flat areas for exercise to gradually help build feet if shoes taken off may also be something to try
 
If you can afford Rockley I would certainly go that way.

If not, PTS. I had an ex racer who had several six month stints on box rest prior to me owning him because of terrible feet. I tried barefoot and booted him to walk on tarmac to the field and back, it didn't work, he wasn't insured (vet wise) and I didn't have unlimited money.

I have to say prior to him being PTS I did have heart bar shoes, then imprint shoes on him at £75 per shoe, and that didn't work either.

I would say if anything would work Rockley would, but all depends on what money you have.
 
I don't think she would be able to charge around the tracks at rockley, they aren't built for that.

If I were you I would take a trip down there and visit then decide what to do. At the very least chat to Nic.

I guess it depends if you want to speculate the money given that she might mess it all up again when she goes home.
 
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