Ddft tear and wedge shoes

HelenBack

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Is there anybody who has had a horse with a ddft tear in the hoof who has actually had success with putting wedge shoes on them? Nobody needs to convince me of the argument for barefoot, I'm already there, just currently struggling with the vet and the farrier ?
 

ester

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What is the current alignment like? (edit I realise this doesn't answer your question or request at all sorry!)
 

HelenBack

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What is the current alignment like? (edit I realise this doesn't answer your question or request at all sorry!)

No but I know what your viewpoint would be anyway!

The alignment is absolutely spot on and he naturally has very upright feet and good heel depth. Been barefoot three years and it's the best thing I've ever done for him. Vet and farrier both agree with this but are still adamant he needs heels on now, albeit only for the short term. That's why I don't get it though, if he had under run heels I might be able to see their logic but all I can think with this is it's going to make him uncomfortable and cause other problems.
 

ester

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I can see why in some cases they is a mechanical logic behind it/having read more I'm perhaps not as anti wedge as I would have been (particularly with the more complete packages that seem to get used more now). But if the alignment is good I'd need convincing of the benefit too.
 

HelenBack

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I know, it's really difficult to know what to do for the best. I want to do the right thing for him obviously but it just makes me so uncomfortable in this particular situation. He has a very slight mediolateral imbalance and I don't think that's going anywhere whatever anybody does. He's toe out, has always landed laterally and you can trim it or get him to trim himself and it makes no difference either way. I can't see shoes helping with that though and actually it was worse when he was shod anyway.

Scoot have started doing a 3mm wedge pad you can put in the boots and I'm wondering whether to suggest that as an alternative. Even that I'm uncomfortable with though because it will still be tipping him forwards in my view.
 

AlpacaTeddySJ

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I could be talking absolute nonsense, but if you used wedge pads to take the strain off the tear, would it not then heal in a more contracted position, which could cause issues down the line when the wedges are removed and the DDFT must stretch again? (Talking out loud)

More importantly, it would be messing up the internal PA and whole mechanics of the hoof.

I have recently done a load of reading of published articles and books surrounding hooves and I would personally leave barefoot and leave the horse grow the foot he needs (within reason).
 

HelenBack

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Well that was all my understanding with the tendon healing shorter and the wedges causing other problems too, hence my reluctance to go down that route. I feel like the vets just have a one size fits all solution though without actually considering the whole horse in front of them and the bigger picture. I'm actually pretty disappointed in the vet and farrier because usually they're on side which is why I've stuck with them so far. Maybe I need to try and discuss things with them a bit more.

Is there any scenario in which you would consider a wedge Ester? And believe me if I were to be persuaded it definitely wouldn't be a very big one!
 

HelenBack

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It's so annoying, we went through all of this three years ago when I first wanted to take his shoes off. I went along with all the remedial rubbish despite my instincts saying no and they crippled him. Finally got a vet onside and they came off and afterwards everyone agreed it was the best thing for him. Now here we are and let's just reach for the remedial shoes again because that's what the text book says despite the fact that everybody knows the success rate is rubbish and now I've got to go through bloody big arguments again. Why does it have to be this way?
 

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It's so annoying, we went through all of this three years ago when I first wanted to take his shoes off. I went along with all the remedial rubbish despite my instincts saying no and they crippled him. Finally got a vet onside and they came off and afterwards everyone agreed it was the best thing for him. Now here we are and let's just reach for the remedial shoes again because that's what the text book says despite the fact that everybody knows the success rate is rubbish and now I've got to go through bloody big arguments again. Why does it have to be this way?
Because vets learn so little about hooves and hoof function in college, and farriers are trained for shoeing as a default. Thank goodness more and more people are seeing the other possibilities now.
 

Pinkvboots

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I wouldn't use wedges either I had a mare that had a ddft injury in the back of her foot near the pastern, it wasn't a good outcome I'm afraid, I tried 3 times to get her sound with long stints of box rest and rehab, she just would go lame again and couldn't stand up to work.

There are other treatments now I would look into something else and maybe consider turning away for a while and see if that will get her sound.
 

ester

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People do seem to be getting better results with wedges (where the heel doesn't continue to atrophy) if applied with a good package (DIM, frog pad etc) that means that you are also engaging the back of the hoof/keeping it stimulated too. But that's for significant NPA which you don't have. I also wouldn't like to say if it's better than the NPA improving barefoot though, likely very horse specific.

What's his current situ, is it recent scan of ddft showing new tear?
 
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My boy had the same injury. We tried shoes with special gel pads to provide him with added support. Unfortunately the outcome for him was not good and he never came sound and deteriorated rapidly and went very lame after being out in the field one day. I tried everything with him, but had to have him pts. Hope your outcome is a better one.
 

HelenBack

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People do seem to be getting better results with wedges (where the heel doesn't continue to atrophy) if applied with a good package (DIM, frog pad etc) that means that you are also engaging the back of the hoof/keeping it stimulated too. But that's for significant NPA which you don't have. I also wouldn't like to say if it's better than the NPA improving barefoot though, likely very horse specific.

What's his current situ, is it recent scan of ddft showing new tear?

Yes it's a exactly that, hence all the arguments about management of the current situation. Prior to this new lameness everyone agreed that barefoot was the best way for him and the farrier even said that he thought if he shod him again he'd end up in a bad way again like he did before. He didn't have a ddft tear last time though and it was some other stuff going on. I feel like now with this new diagnosis the blinkers have gone back on again, even though I had this same fight last time and they all agreed with me afterwards.
 

HelenBack

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My boy had the same injury. We tried shoes with special gel pads to provide him with added support. Unfortunately the outcome for him was not good and he never came sound and deteriorated rapidly and went very lame after being out in the field one day. I tried everything with him, but had to have him pts. Hope your outcome is a better one.

I'm sorry you had this horrible outcome for your boy. I know there's a reality that this is a possible outcome and am trying not to think about it too much and just take one day at a time. I've had a lot of sh1t luck lately and it would probably finish me off if it came to the worst thing. I'll just try and stay positive and hope for the best though.
 

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Is your alignment judgement from X rays or just external views? If x-rays are good then I can't see why wedges are needed, if you still need x-rays and the angles are then off I would consider wedges but ONLY applied with a protocol such as https://www.facebook.com/hoofscanandhoofcarecentre offer (Oz, but really useful to read their stuff) and not with rim/open heel shoes.

A ground work person I follow says she's yet to see a horse with DDFT that doesn't have thoracic sling dysfunction, another way to look at it.
 

HelenBack

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Is your alignment judgement from X rays or just external views? If x-rays are good then I can't see why wedges are needed, if you still need x-rays and the angles are then off I would consider wedges but ONLY applied with a protocol such as https://www.facebook.com/hoofscanandhoofcarecentre offer (Oz, but really useful to read their stuff) and not with rim/open heel shoes.

A ground work person I follow says she's yet to see a horse with DDFT that doesn't have thoracic sling dysfunction, another way to look at it.

Hi, yes x-rays have been done and alignment is good, hence why I'm being awkward about it. If it wasn't good I probably wouldn't bother to argue and would just be careful about the type of wedge that went on but I'n feeling quite strongly about it in this case.

Are you able to share the name of the ground work person with me please so I can look them up in case I think it would be helpful?
 

Sossigpoker

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Mine had wedge pads and bar shoes because he had that kind of low Heel long toe conformation..he came sound enough to hack and we had a wonderful last summer together but sadly he tore the DDFT again and this time it was catastrophic so he was PTS.
 

HelenBack

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I'm so sorry to hear that but sadly yours isn't the only story like that I've heard.

This is why I've decided I'll think very carefully about whether to ride again or not if he does come sound enough again. I'd love to be able to take him out again and he loves going out too. He's not renowned for being sensible though and on balance I'd rather he was here and if that means not riding him anymore then so be it.

We're a long way from even thinking about that at this point though.
 

Amaretto

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Hi, I realise this post was from last year.
I’m currently in a very similar situation with my older boy.
Any other insight would be very welcome.
@HelenBack I hope you had a positive outcome. Xx
 

HelenBack

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Hi, sorry you're going through this. Has your boy had an MRI and what is the diagnosis and suggested treatment plan?

I stuck to my guns and kept the shoes off my guy. Did all the box rest and small pen turnout etc and kept that going for a bit longer than initially recommended. He's turned out as normal now.

We go out for walks and he seems to enjoy that. I don't do any more than that and I don't plan to as I just don't want to risk it and my gut feeling is he wouldn't stand up to much. I just want him to be here and be happy so if we can carry on as we are for as long as possible I'll be OK with that.

I don't regret keeping him barefoot and think now the whole situation was ridiculous and I should have just stood up for myself and said I wasn't shoeing him from the outset. If I had one with this injury that had NPA then I would probably see about going with the 3D pads with DIM underneath, but would make sure I had a really good farrier who did a decent job of trimming and applying the pads properly.
 

Amaretto

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He came sound after cartrophen, wedges, very controlled rehab. 9 months in total. MRI showed a large tear near his fetlock and other diagnostics showed some arthritic changes.
He’s been doing really well after a very poor diagnosis, but today he looked ever so slightly uncomfortable - choppy when he is usually very big moving (in the limited trot we are able to do).
Wondering if it’s the shoes, not the injury..
 

Pinkvboots

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Hi, sorry you're going through this. Has your boy had an MRI and what is the diagnosis and suggested treatment plan?

I stuck to my guns and kept the shoes off my guy. Did all the box rest and small pen turnout etc and kept that going for a bit longer than initially recommended. He's turned out as normal now.

We go out for walks and he seems to enjoy that. I don't do any more than that and I don't plan to as I just don't want to risk it and my gut feeling is he wouldn't stand up to much. I just want him to be here and be happy so if we can carry on as we are for as long as possible I'll be OK with that.

I don't regret keeping him barefoot and think now the whole situation was ridiculous and I should have just stood up for myself and said I wasn't shoeing him from the outset. If I had one with this injury that had NPA then I would probably see about going with the 3D pads with DIM underneath, but would make sure I had a really good farrier who did a decent job of trimming and applying the pads properly.
I'm glad you stuck to the barefoot I think its the right choice, I have used pads on one of mine that had thin soles as a temporary solution which worked well, then he just had normal shoes on for some years up until recently he has coffin joint arthritis which was treated last summer, and he just kept tripping and toe landing so I took shoes off, he almost walked normally straight away and his doing OK so far his shoes have been off about 14 weeks now.
 
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