Dealers and their tricks to con buyers

A

anniedoherty

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 September 2006
Messages
912
Location
Yorkshire
www.boxtreegallery.co.uk
Anyone who's read my recent posts will know that I bought a horse for my novice OH and that it has turned out to have major problems and is totally unsuitable for him. I have consulted a specialist equine lawyer and it seems that I have no recourse to law because the dealer sold the horse on behalf of a client.

I am stuck in this situation now and there isn't much I can do but I wanted to warn everyone else of this particular "get out clause" which I believe is used by more than just this dealer in the hope of preventing someone else being conned like I was.

Obviously I can't say who the dealer was but it was NOT one of the ones that you would automatically avoid at all costs. If anyone wants to contact me by PM I will be pleased to "chat".
 
Unfortunately there is a lot of bad dealers out there. A mate got a horse nto long ago that was good to hack, box etc etc. She got it home and it would nap and rear. She tried to contact the guy - to no avail, she contacted trading standards and it was such a performance she elected to just sell the horse cheap to someone that buys problem horses.

Personally if I was making a living out of selling I would want to be as honest as possible as your reputation is at stake. A good reputable dealer is a godsend
 
i bought one 3 weeks ago and when it all went wrong i was told the same thing "its not my fault i am selling on behalf of client" which is what was on my receipt . i was then giving the owners phone number who eventually has taken the pony back yesterday but minus £500. the pony was un-rideable in a school, kicked out frontwards when trying to lead out to field and weaved badly. it has gone straight back to selling livery.good scam really if you can make £500 every 3 weeks. i have put it down as an expensive lesson to learn once again from a dodgy dealer
 
I think the 'selling on behalf of a client' is a very common ruse, not only is there a get out on suitability, but these people sail quite close to the wind financially too, and it serves a purpose for them not to register the horse in their name and therefore not have seizable assets.
 
I am so glad I have read your post. I have been looking at a lorry at a dealers with a huge stock, who only sells on behalf of clients. I was due to trade my lorry in for a bigger one. I assume the same get out clause would apply in this case too.
 
That is a blow. have you spoken to the client, you never know you might be able to do something that way. You should definatly get their name and contact details. Maybe the client doesn't exsist or they might also be classed as a trader.

My 'Dodgy Dealer' has a fab reputation, several people on HHO recommended him. Since the problems I have had with Dolly, a lot more people have PM'd me about how they bought 'dodgy' horses of him. Luckily dolly was registered in his name so they can't pull the client trick.

Does anyone know if once I put the papers into court, which is looking as next week as he is still ignoring me if I can name him as it would be public record?
 
Hi Llwyncwn, I think you are right to be wary of anyone selling anything in this way because I am sure it leaves you high and dry if anything goes wrong.

Sorry to hear of others' bad experiences. It has totally put me off buying another horse because there are obviously a lot of crooks out there.
 
I think you would need to allow him time to make an out of court agreement with you first although it would be great to know who to avoid as soon as possible!
 
Dieseldog, I have managed to get the client's details and tried phoning her but no reply. I will try again later and see if she will talk to me.

I'm not sure about your legal question. I wish that we could just "name and shame" on here. It would save a lot of innocent people getting conned.
 
I appreciate that you will obviously be bitter through your experience.
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It has totally put me off buying another horse because there are obviously a lot of crooks out there.

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It shouldn't totally put you off really, there are crooks out there in all walks of life. I assure you there are far more dodgy car dealers than horse dealers but that shouldn't stop you ever owning a car?

You've had a bad experience granted, but you only have to read the posts on here to find out how many people have had great experiences. You'll get the right one in the end.
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Toby_Zaphod, I do feel angry that I have been conned but I also feel very sorry for the poor horse involved and sad that I haven't got either my own land or sufficent money to keep him and my other boy at full livery for the next however many years.

I have bought horses before and been very successful but once you've actually been in a situation like this it does make you very wary of people and their motives for selling horses. This dealer was obviously out to defraud customers and there are some honest dealers out there but how can you tell which one is which? I couldn't and I know that I could easily make the same mistake again, although obviously not with the same dealer and I would never buy a horse being sold on behalf of a client again but the dishonest dealers must have plenty more scams up their sleeves of which I am not aware and that it what worries me.
 
I should also add that cars are different really because you could take them to the scrapheap if you really were sold a dud and you wouldn't feel guilty like I do for trying to get rid of this poor horse. It's not his fault and I feel awful that I can't keep him. I wish it was just a lump of metal we were talking about.
 
i deal in a few horses and everything i sell is owned by me. it does certainly put buyers minds at rest.
however, i have never had a horse come back to me and receive lovely pics and mails from the owners of horses ive sold.
even if i did get a horse back i would be happy as i totally tell the truth about the horse and wouldnt sell anything i wouldnt want myself.
im really sorry you have had this experience but there are still nice truthful "dealers" out there.
unfortunatly its people like the person you have brought from that make the job so much harder for people like myself.
good luck and hope you get your money back
 
Thanks vicki_krystal. No chance of getting my money back I'm afraid but I am glad that you run an honest business. I am in business too and am totally straight and honest with people so I know that it is possible to conduct your business like that and still make a living.
 
Aw, Clementine, I'm really sorry to hear all this. It is such a minefield buying horses - I don't think I would want to do it again. I didn't know about this "get out clause" and funnily enough my quirky boy was sold on behalf of a client too! Will you try to sell him on now, or will you take him down to the sales? Project Horse might be worth a go? What a horrid situation for you to be in. If you need a rant, feel free to pm me!
 
i get annoyed with some websites that let some dealers sell week after week on there as private and not trade. when you buy from these dealers they want cashpayment. perhaps a call to inland revenue might make them squirm a bit. i have had two bad buys this year and 7 months later am still looking. it was not as bad as this a few years back what is going on in the horseworld lately. i phone up adverts now and don't believe a word they say and they might be genuine but i pick all bits out and twist them to have a different meaning. have now decided not to buy anymore. going to have a holiday instead.
 
I'm sorry for your sad news and that your fella didn't work out, but thank you for posting this very relevant warning. I didn't know about the 'get out clause'; and to be honest I've owned a few horses and have been bitten twice, but neither of the people selling were dealers!! so I guess it's not just dealers who are unscrupulous (if that's a word) there are many people from all walks of life out there who will scam you. Don't let it put you off tho there are honest people out there. But having been there if does really sting at the time. Hope you can find a suitable home for your chap
 
I had no idea about this get out clause. It should be published in H&H as there must be lots of people who could get conned in this way. What are you planning to do with the horse now? It is a lose, lose situation all round for you and for the horse.
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Yes I believe that is also the case over here.

I have advertised two of my liveries horses "for sale on behalf of client" ..... but they really were on behalf of her as she was having terribly upsetting family problems at the time and wasn't able to deal with the sale of her horses herself. I made everyone who called, aware of the situation, and no there was no way I was going to put my own selling business-reputation on the line in this situation and I in no way guaranteed them.
 
Thanks to everyone who's replied. Meltdown, I agree that it would be good to compile a list of dealers' con tricks so that we could all be better informed of the various scams. If anyone wants me to compile one I will do because it might save more of us falling for these tricks. Just PM me with your experiences.

Prilly, I thought I might try the Project Horses route. That way he might end up with someone nice who is willing and able to bring him on and give him the chance he deserves. For the moment he is staying on training livery and I am going to see if he improves.

Captain, I don't blame you for taking a holiday. My OH is really disheartened by this experience and says he doesn't think learning to ride is such a good idea now. I had fondly imagined us going out for hacks together in a few weeks time so I am disappointed on that front too.

Thanks debradley, I will do my best to find him a good home and I will start looking again once I have sorted this mess out, but it will be a lot harder to commit to buying a horse next time round. I will be paranoid I expect and not believe a word of what anyone tells me!
 
Tia, you always sound like an honest, straight-talking person so I have no doubt that you made it clear upfront to whoever bought these horses what the situation was. I wasn't made aware of it until my bill of sale arrived (with the horse transporter) so it was a deliberate scam.
 
Well it's not something I would usually do but this was exceptional circumstances; you may remember the lady whose baby girl died, well it was her horses that she asked me to sell.

I don't care to sell other peoples horses and I don't generally sell any of my own without having, or knowing them, for a year or so. I guess I'm not your average dealer though....thank goodness!

I think you have been royally ripped off and I do think there should be some comeback in situations like this but I guess it is the old adage "buyer beware". If it helps you any, I honestly don't know what I would have done in your situation, had I not been told this till the last minute. I would like to think that I would have walked away, however I can't say with any guarantee that I would have.

It's an awful thing to have happen and I do feel for you.
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A friend of mine was scammed about 10 years ago in this way. She paid £15,000 for a horse being sold by her top trainer. For prelim dressage and RC! Cash!!!! He wouldnt take a cheque! She was a complete novice!

Now she gave the impression she was a dumb blonde but in fact she was an astute business woman. She contacted the owner and found she had paid £5000 commission!

She took both parties to court and won but used a top barrister. Some very well known people were called to give evidence. She was awarded costs and compensation but I never found out whether she got the money and all assets disappeared.

So it can be done. If you have the money and determination.
She was not told until everything went wrong that she had not bought it from her instructor.
 
You know, that is a VERY good point made by Dozzie. This dealer must have made commission off this horse presumably? I never take money for finding or selling horses for people so I hadn't thought of this angle.

I'd look again and speak to another lawyer because you, like me, may have forgotten to mention this??
 
Clematine, I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I've been down that road and suffered a serious injury with a horse that was mis-described. That dealer wasn't selling 'on behalf of a client' and a couple of years after he went out of business (I heard there were several people suing him)!

When you feel up to looking again, you might want to go along to www.stubleyhollowfarm.com Its owned by Patsy Day and is just outside of Sheffield. Patsy does sell the odd one on behalf of a client, but they are genuine and tend to be previous customers. The vast majority are not sold that way though. She is very keen to maintain her good reputation and I know several horses that have come from her. I bought my lovely mare from her 3 years ago and she would be my first stop if I was horse shopping again.
 
Dieseldog and Tia, I have now managed to speak to the previous owner, the dealer herself and the original dealer who sold the horse in the first place i.e. the dealer from whom the second dealer bought the horse.

The previous owner was willing to talk and told me that she had only had the horse a week and he threw her off twice shortly after she had mounted (exactly the same problem as I am having). The original dealer said that the dodgy dealer (for want of a better expression) had bought the horse from him one day before selling it to the next owner so the riding school had definitely not had it for 3 or 4 months and had it working in the school like they told me. Finally the dealer who sold it to me now says that she told me at the time I viewed the horse that it she was selling it on behalf of a third party so it's her word against mine! Nice woman eh? She's obviously done this a few times before methinks.

Dieseldog - thanks for the links. I'd already found one of those but not the other. Unfortunately, I'm still not "covered" because of the verbal lies that were told by the dealer and which I cannot prove. If I tried to take her to court she would lie and would, I'm sure provide her staff as witnesses because they also told me all the same lies as the dealer so they are clearly well trained!

My offer still stands - if anyone wants more details regarding this matter please PM me and I will happily tell you more.
 
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