Dealing with a skinny laminitic?!

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diddy

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Hi all. As per title, my laminitic mare (7 y.o) is currently very skinny and I’m not sure what to do with her. Over the winter, I had to really control her hay consumption to stop her putting weight on. However, now it’s summer, she’s too thin! She has a nice muscle tone at the back end but you can definitely see her ribs without even looking. She’s her usual lovely and energetic self, her teeth have been done recently, worming is up to date etc. so I don’t think there’s anything wrong as such. She is on a fairly bare field overnight and has as much hay as she likes during day but she isn’t eating enough of it to keep the weight on her. What would you suggest in this situation?

Should I give her some hard feed? Mix in a bit of haylage to tempt her (assume not but she used to refuse hay in her pre-laminitic days)?

She is on a track system so I could open the fence up a bit. But we might not be any better off as I have limited grazing and the grass wouldn’t then get much chance to grow like it does now.

Or just accept that she’s a strange one and assume she’ll put some weight on come winter when she’s in more and exercised less?

TIA. D. x
 
A young, skinny laminitic probably has something else going on.
Has she had further vet tests? Cushings?

How skinny is skinny on a condition score (do you have a photo?)

If you are going to feed then avoid high sugar and growing grass. Oil and fibre. Be careful with hay/haylage - great to add but have it tested
 
Thanks for that. Good questions! I would say she's a 4 on the condition score - you can see her ribs but her tailbone and spine aren't protruding - if that makes sense! She had tests done around Christmas when the laminitis was diagnosed as the vet said the same as you but they didn't find cushings or any other any underlying issues. I used to feed my oldie oil so might try that... The oldie is now too fat for the first time ever - I can never seem to have the both at the right weight!
 
Is she skinny because she's not getting much to eat or is she getting plenty and still skinny?
 
Thanks for the suggestion Leo. Not come across those before so will have a look at them.

HP - she isn't get much grass at night but I put out hay during they day and she's not getting through it all. So I guess you'd say she's got access to food but isn't eating it for whatever reason.
 
Perhaps a high fibre haylage may be better or could you give her access to more grass. It depends on how 'laminitic' she is really. Is it under control? How long since she had it and how bad.
My lami pony is out on grass with my others. I just monitor him daily ie check pulses. It he hasn't had an attack for a few years
 
Can you hay at night as well as during the day? Ours are on a grass track and they tend to flit between the hay and the grass, go fill upon hay, nibble the sweeter stuff, come back for more hay.

It also depends a bit how much rib is showing.
 
there are some very good lami pages on facebook and also several web sites with good advise. unmollassed sugarbeet is a recommended feed for laminitics who need weight on. always feed less than 10% total starch and sugar to a laminitic. most hard feed is above this. so do not feed it.
 
Have a look at Calm Healthy Horses website. Lots of really helpful advice on there.

Do you feed her salt daily at 10g per 100kg body weight? It may be she’s struggling with potassium imbalance.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Having lost a 6 yr old mare to what I now believe to be Cushings, when she had undiagnosed laminitis, I would always test a skinny laminitic for Cushings now and would ask for the TRH test, rather than ACTH.
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my vet said cushings is only in older horses ie 15 or more. more likely to be EMS this can be tested for but the test can say negative hen in fact its positive !
 
IF there is definitely no underlying condition causing this, a feed containing micronised linseed with speedibeet / oat straw chaff and feeding timothy haylage (low sugar/high fibre) instead of hay may help?
 
My laminitic pony always had ribs visible even with a thick crest and fat pads on her neck, shoulders, rump. Years ago I had a mare who never carried weight over her ribs even when very fat. Have had others that even when slim had fat over their ribs. Weird.
 
Downton Dame said:
my vet said cushings is only in older horses ie 15 or more. more likely to be EMS this can be tested for but the test can say negative hen in fact its positive !
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I am afraid that your vet is wrong! I have done a lot of research since then, including discussing with my vet, who is not from the non-diagnosing practice, Which isn't to say that OP's horse has Cushings but I would definitely insist on a test, as well as testing for other conditions such as EMS, and insulin resistance..
 
The thing is though, my vet who is an expert in cushings, as in hes the one other vets ring when they have a tricky case or want a second opinion, tends to agree with DDs vet. All sorts of things can cause a false positive, and those things include pain and or stress. Obviously there is the odd case that doesnt fit the norm, but hes firmly of the opinion that this isnt a disease you see in young horses in almost all cases.
 
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Leo Walker said:
The thing is though, my vet who is an expert in cushings, as in hes the one other vets ring when they have a tricky case or want a second opinion, tends to agree with DDs vet. All sorts of things can cause a false positive, and those things include pain and or stress. Obviously there is the odd case that doesnt fit the norm, but hes firmly of the opinion that this isnt a disease you see in young horses in almost all cases.
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I feel he is wrong. I am pretty sure mine started with cushings at age 5. He was tested at age 12 and was negative twice. If your vet was correct then if I gave him prascend as a trial it shouldn't have had any effect or solved his problems. It did, it gave a very definite indication of PPID. If a horse just had pain or stress prascend shouldn't make any difference. I am not the only one who had a young horse that tested neg. but prascend provided the answer. I asked the vet if prascend could be dealing with any other condition but they thought it only dealt with cushings.

I agree with PAS's earlier comments, test for ACTH and if it is negative move onto the TRH test. The horse has a definite cushings symptom ie laminitis.
I have horses out 24/7 on bare fields with no hay or feed and I am struggling to keep weight off them. If diddy's horse has cushings then you could stuff any amount of feed down her and it won't make any difference.

If the vet blood tests etc and checks for any other problem that could be causing it and there was nothing I would even consider a prascend trial for 3 months to see if there was any difference.
If I had a 7yo in this position I wouldn't just accept it was a strange horse but that something else could be going on.
 
paddy555 said:
I feel he is wrong. I am pretty sure mine started with cushings at age 5. He was tested at age 12 and was negative twice. If your vet was correct then if I gave him prascend as a trial it shouldn't have had any effect or solved his problems. It did, it gave a very definite indication of PPID. If a horse just had pain or stress prascend shouldn't make any difference. I am not the only one who had a young horse that tested neg. but prascend provided the answer. I asked the vet if prascend could be dealing with any other condition but they thought it only dealt with cushings.

I agree with PAS's earlier comments, test for ACTH and if it is negative move onto the TRH test. The horse has a definite cushings symptom ie laminitis.
I have horses out 24/7 on bare fields with no hay or feed and I am struggling to keep weight off them. If diddy's horse has cushings then you could stuff any amount of feed down her and it won't make any difference.

If the vet blood tests etc and checks for any other problem that could be causing it and there was nothing I would even consider a prascend trial for 3 months to see if there was any difference.
If I had a 7yo in this position I wouldn't just accept it was a strange horse but that something else could be going on.
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My horse was ill long before there was any treatment for Cushings, or even recognition that there is a fairly high incidence of it in older equines, so far as i am aware. But I certainly wish that I had pushed for more tests when the vet told me that hte initial blood tests had come back negative. I wish I changed vets sooner and not listened to that one when he told me to turn her out. My farrier has said that he feels that the vet caused her death - and he isn't one to say such a thing lightly. However, tbf, I am not sure that we could have done much except pts sooner as there was little, if any, treatment available 20 yrs ago.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
My horse was ill long before there was any treatment for Cushings, or even recognition that there is a fairly high incidence of it in older equines, so far as i am aware. But I certainly wish that I had pushed for more tests when the vet told me that hte initial blood tests had come back negative. I wish I changed vets sooner and not listened to that one when he told me to turn her out. My farrier has said that he feels that the vet caused her death - and he isn't one to say such a thing lightly. However, tbf, I am not sure that we could have done much except pts sooner as there was little, if any, treatment available 20 yrs ago.
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my horse I suspect started down the cushings road in around 2003. He was first tested 2012. There was little about cushings in young horses in 2003. Basically if you had a very hairy 30 yo it could be cushings. I didn't know enough and failed to recognise signs that would now jump out at me. The vet saw the horse regularly and didn't even suggest it. By 2012 there was more info and after 2 neg tests vet was sure horse didn't have cushings. Every sign was there by the time he was 14 but vet still didn't spot it. I did and insisted on prascend trial and horse is still with us. I'm sorry you lost your horse too early. People nowadays are so much luckier with all the info out there.
 
Hello,
I had a very laminitis pony and as she got older really struggled to hold her weight.

I would ensure yours always has access to hay - do you feed it on the floor or from a net? If a net maybe try from the floor?

I used to feed mine speedi beet and through the winter would change it to fibre beet, I'd also add micronised linseed at upto a good mug full per feed.
When really struggling with weight I'd feed her alfa a oil, dodson and horrell also do a feed called cush are condition which would be good.

Hope this helps
 
i think my mare had the beginnings of cushings when she was 13 as she suddenly started cribbing and her management and feed hadnt changed. i just assumed it was caused by stress but in hindsight i think it was the beginning of cushings as once she was diagnosed and put on prascend the cribbing stopped completely...
 
paddy555 said:
my horse I suspect started down the cushings road in around 2003. He was first tested 2012. There was little about cushings in young horses in 2003. Basically if you had a very hairy 30 yo it could be cushings. I didn't know enough and failed to recognise signs that would now jump out at me. The vet saw the horse regularly and didn't even suggest it. By 2012 there was more info and after 2 neg tests vet was sure horse didn't have cushings. Every sign was there by the time he was 14 but vet still didn't spot it. I did and insisted on prascend trial and horse is still with us. I'm sorry you lost your horse too early. People nowadays are so much luckier with all the info out there.
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I try to take the view that every horse I have lost has helped those who come after. The Shire helped me to recognise Cushings in the Draft horse and the Appaloosa, both of which we lost in the 17/18 winter. The Appaloosa taught us to insist on the TRH test if the symptoms, or even gut feeling, lead you to suspect Cushings and the ACTH test comes back negative.
But it was sad, I only had her a few months - and then the next one was pts aged 11 with a digestive tract cancer.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I try to take the view that every horse I have lost has helped those who come after. The Shire helped me to recognise Cushings in the Draft horse and the Appaloosa, both of which we lost in the 17/18 winter. The Appaloosa taught us to insist on the TRH test if the symptoms, or even gut feeling, lead you to suspect Cushings and the ACTH test comes back negative.
But it was sad, I only had her a few months - and then the next one was pts aged 11 with a digestive tract cancer.
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yes my cushings induced laminitis arab PTS helped save my haflinger and my other arab in the 80's that I now know most likely had PSSM helped saved OH's horse. In all honesty the internet probably saved both of them as well from the information now available.
 
paddy555 said:
yes my cushings induced laminitis arab PTS helped save my haflinger and my other arab in the 80's that I now know most likely had PSSM helped saved OH's horse. In all honesty the internet probably saved both of them as well from the information now available.
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My first horse I had back in the 90's got laminitis at 22 then there was no link to cushings, looking back she probably did have cushings but I wasn't that aware of it, when I got my warmblood mare I educated my self and had her tested for cushings and ems at 15 and she had both, I am very aware of it and rencently had my 15 year old Arab tested for both, his not showing signs but his feet were sore and I didn't want to take any chances, I had the feet xrayed as well thankfully no laminitis just crap soles and the walls are not great which is now all in hand.

I constantly check digital pulses and am aware of the consequences unfortunately though at another horses cost but you learn from it.
 
Is it possible she's actually a good weight to manage her laminitis assuming all other issues have been ruled out - I would be relaxed so long as she isn't losing weight - is her coat bright etc?
 
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