dealing with the most spoilt homebred ever!

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Sparklepony

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Please help!

Work purchased a homebred 2 year old cob x thing 3 months ago, she is 13hh currently.
I believe she must of been bottle fed or something, I don't know why just the feeling I get, she is horrid, bites your face kicks out etc, she runs or climbs through any fencing and attacks other horses. She won't stay out and goes mad when in. Personally I would actually shoot it but not my decision, she isn't nice at all and means it when she goes for you/another horse, I have been trying carefully to be firm but fair but it's getting now wear, she throws herself on the floor if I get to cross.
Anyway today she was mooching on th yard whilst I mucked her out, and sh attacked the cat, like full on both barrels, luckily the cat managed to escape but I lost my temper big style and whacked her a few times with a Broom and threw a bucket at her, screamed and shouted etc.
Anyway this is not normally like me at all. I was a bit shocked but I think I actually mad more improvement doing that than anything else I have tried, I caught her and picked all 4 feet up, and she led well. She has never done this before!

So my question is not shall I beat her around the head daily but do you think this mare needs a but more harsh handling? Don get me wrong I have smacked her several times before but today is the only time she seemed to click that she shouldn't do it?
Any helpful tips appreciated :)
 
She sounds horrid - bottle reared youngsters are reknowned for being dreadful. Could she be turned out with a very dominant horse? It sounds like she needs some herd training.
I think as you could see from her reaction today she needs a zero tolerance regime, never letting her get away with any unwanted behaviour. I own a feisty filly and I never treat her by hand - she is very very pushy and given an inch she will always push the boundary. I have to be very firm with her at all times and this treatment works - she does listen to me.
 
The problem is she gets through any fence! She has a round pen in the ponies field that she goes in but if any pony goes near her pen she attacks the metal! I have 4 rail posts here and mains electric but she just doesn't care!
I hate her!
 
Sounds like she needs some manners taught to her, which will not be achieved by losing your temper, throwing buckets at her or harsh handling. Work her by doing carrot stretches, teaching her to stay out of your space, long reining etc. Give her something to think about and try an understand why she is behaving the way she is. Shouting and harsh handling shows that you have no more tools in the box.
 
Could you do some groundwork with her? Maybe she is bored. The filly I referred to changed from a bargy, moodly wild thing to a much calmer horse as soon as I started some daily inhand work and a bit of longreining.. I know this youngster is only 2 yrs old, but some basic leading work and stopping starting, moving away from the hand and learning to go from the voice can be done at that age.
 
I have been doing ground work with her, teaching her to stop when I stop, move back etc, she will tolerate one horse, he is sadly out of work due to a foot abcess at the moment, but I was going to try some ride and lead and let her see the world!

Amymay the boss situation is awkward. Basically boss is in Europe for 9 months a year. I get left with credit card and little instructions. However I have emailed him to say that I am struggling with her an would like to send her away for herd turnout. We have such a random variety here and she is mean to all of them!

Disclaimer to say that all though I dislike her alot, I wouldn't let any harm come to her, I lost my rag this morning, I felt bad but im quite fond of t cat, he sleeps on my bed every night!
 
It does sound as though she has been hand reared - and that is a specialist really difficult training area, I would be trying to find someone who has experience with them. I did know a big horse who had had chase games played with him as a foal, as a 6 year old he went to a show jumper for training and responded well to the very hard regime there. But then he went to someone who was more empathetic and she said he had no interest in relating to people at all. He was PTS.
 
We had one , only problem was she was 16.2 and five years old.
I still have the scar on my back from her first day when she attacked me, the lad holding the door did not realise his job was to shut it if she came after me, which she did!
After that it was a long process, we used to carry a big stick [twitch stick in self defence, so she got a bop on the teeth with it if she came too near.
When the farrier came he refused to handle her in such a brutal way, that lasted two mins after she got hold of his belt to lift him up! I only had to stand there with the stick, and she was fine.
First day I went to get her in from her paddock I had a small round fence post behind my back, she charged down that hill at full tilt! cue fence post on teeth! OK.
She had never been in a field on her own in her whole life, so we put her out with Mr Grumpy............ YES she soon realised that being big and clumsy does not pay off all the time!
Funnily enough she was the best ride in the yard and I rode her all the time, we even became best mates though she still threw a wobbly if we tried to alter her handling regime at all.
She wasn't viscious tho, just misguided, not sure about yours............. i'm for getting rid, you can 't risk injury
 
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Very true. Horses can read our intent and if you hate her then you can bet your bottom dollar she knows this. Your body language will give you away every time.
 
Firstly I would agree that an overhumanised youngster is often a menace and not infrequently they also get battered by other horses because they haven't learned herd manners as they were growing up. Secondly, I would say that reading them the riot act at full volume occasionally does no-one any harm at all. I knew a middle aged gelding who was a terrible door kicker and frankly it drove me mad because he had his feed but was still jealous that my mare was having her feed too. One day I lost it totally and kicked seven bells out of his metal stable door in my steel toecaps. Said gelding cowered at the back of his stable while I gave it everything I had but funnily enough he never kicked the door in my presence again! He was intelligent and spoilt and had always been allowed to get away with bad behaviour. However, OP, do you think this mare could be having hormone problems? They always go a bit haywire at this time of the year anyway and she won't have long started her seasons I would imagine, if she is 2. I used to know a mare who was a complete horror in her stable. Even the yard-hand who was built like a brick privvy and scared of nothing, used to go in her stable with a pitchfork. Once you got a headcollar or bridle on she was fine, although she could be very strange if she came across a pile of droppings. We always used to say that we would put a few horse-molesters in her stable with her and when the banging and screaming stopped, scrape out what was left. She had injections regularly which were some sort of hormone apparently. Her history was that she was a well -bred brood mare and used purely as a baby machine until a pregnancy went wrong and she was thrown away by the stud, and broken to ride at 7 or 8.
 
Not homebred, but ill=mannered all the same, a 16 2 WB ex brood mare, came to us food aggressive, bargy and used her strength against us, using a dually halter while teaching her manners, she now moves over, back, stand when asked, waits for her feed, haynet, with a firm no, our 3yr old cob came with no manners, again into a headcollar, held back till his feed bucket put down, haynet put up, with verbal commands, he is in a herd of four, knows his place, but needs reminding of his manners when people deal with him, I growl a lot when needed but have never resorted to violence, visitors are amazed when I only have to ask them to back up etc and they do it with no physical contact
 
Many, many years ago a friend bought a pony from a sale in wales. She was a nightmare. Kicked and bit, would attack in the field. She would charge at you all teeth and feet. Ok with other equines though.

The owner in despair called the zoo to take her. The day before they were due, he got her in a stable and approached the door, every time she lashed out he walloped her, apparently this went on for an hour or more.

This man was not the sort to be unkind or cruel to any animal. He thought kill or cure. The zoo was canceled.

The outcome was this mare followed him everywhere like a dog, she absolutely adored him. Weird or what?

No way would I advocate this treatment and he would be done for cruelty these days. Saved her life though as she would have killed someone eventually.

She lived out her life with him and lived well into her twenties.
 
She does not necessarily need to be bottled reared IME nothing is nastier than the spoilt indulged homebred mare .
When I worked backing lots of horses there was a mass rush of people exiting the yard when 5yo unbroken homebred mares arrived on the yard we were all trying to avoid being given it to do.
Feral horses where usually less trouble than one of these .
It's difficult for you because your not in charge .
Herd turnout may teach some horse manners as long as she does not takeover the herd in which case it would be a disaster.
You neeed to be very firm and quiet with them no shouting just my way or the no way if it's in work get her tired and I mean really tired .
If you have a walker this is a time I would really overuse it .
Keep food to a minimum .No petting you need to act disinterested in her.
Calm firm handling , enough work if possible to get her exhausted ,no hard food .and lots of time in a commercial setting this type of horse is a disaster .
Stay safe hat gloves etc and you canot risk turnout with other cilents horses with this type.
On the cheerful side I bought one of these she was the surviving twin of a mare that died trying to deliver twins .She was a monster you could not lead her she was terrible to lead the first three months as a nightmare then she discovered hunting after four mornings a week cubbing from the beginning of the season she found something else to think about and stayed with us all her life.
She was always feisty and was not kind to the timid human but she was a good horse and great at her job.
 
AengusOg said:
I think you should ask yourself if you are suited to working with horses.
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I thought I was the only one that thought this!

I think you sound a little too angry and impatient. I totally understand the horse sounds dangerous but I don't think you sound the right person to be dealing with her really. Sorry if that's harsh, it's not intended.
 
I have a hand reared mare on loan and although she is not dangerous she really is the most annoying animal, and although its not her fault they can be really very challenging. I would far prefer to buy something that has never been handled as a foal than one that has too much human interaction.
Seen as you have been left with this problem with no support, I would resort to handling her as little as possible, turn her out with a companion in a paddock or fold yard and handle her at arms length. Its not worth getting injured by someone else's folly. As you are employed by the owner I would also do a written risk assessment so if you or someone else is injured by her the insurance company can not be difficult.
 
In case she is hormonal it may be worth trying her on agnus castus as it can have a good effect on that sort of mare. I get mine from http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Natural-Horse-Supplies?_trksid=p2047675.l2563 echo the zero tolerance as in if she does even the smallest thing that you want then praise her but if she does the smallest thing wrong a growl will help. if she is really likely to hurt you I would carry mr blue pipe as it makes a good noise if you give them a bop on the shoulder but its not like a whip so you would not hurt them. it also has the advantage of being easy for the horse to see so can be a good deterrant if you just carry it until she learns good from bad
 
fatpiggy said:
Firstly I would agree that an overhumanised youngster is often a menace and not infrequently they also get battered by other horses because they haven't learned herd manners as they were growing up. Secondly, I would say that reading them the riot act at full volume occasionally does no-one any harm at all. I knew a middle aged gelding who was a terrible door kicker and frankly it drove me mad because he had his feed but was still jealous that my mare was having her feed too. One day I lost it totally and kicked seven bells out of his metal stable door in my steel toecaps. Said gelding cowered at the back of his stable while I gave it everything I had but funnily enough he never kicked the door in my presence again! He was intelligent and spoilt and had always been allowed to get away with bad behaviour. However, OP, do you think this mare could be having hormone problems? They always go a bit haywire at this time of the year anyway and she won't have long started her seasons I would imagine, if she is 2. I used to know a mare who was a complete horror in her stable. Even the yard-hand who was built like a brick privvy and scared of nothing, used to go in her stable with a pitchfork. Once you got a headcollar or bridle on she was fine, although she could be very strange if she came across a pile of droppings. We always used to say that we would put a few horse-molesters in her stable with her and when the banging and screaming stopped, scrape out what was left. She had injections regularly which were some sort of hormone apparently. Her history was that she was a well -bred brood mare and used purely as a baby machine until a pregnancy went wrong and she was thrown away by the stud, and broken to ride at 7 or 8.
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I hope it was your middle aged gelding & you didn't behave in that manner with someone else's horse (I'd still feel sorry for it if regardless of the owner) but, I'd be livid & disgusted to find a member of staff or fellow livery kicking a door so hard it made someone else's horse in it cower at the back of the stable.

If I were you OP, I'd get your boss to agree to pay for someone like Micheal Peace or a Kelly Marks RA whose experienced with difficult horses on the ground and has an abundance of tools in their tool box help you with her, before she harms you. It's much fairer on the horse than shouting or walloping it one.
 
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I think the OP is a groom , or paid to look after this horse. Pay to get someone out? I think not - those of you criticising the OP have surely never come across a dangerous horse. The difference between a nervous horse -which you should never chastise, and a spoilt unafraid -of -the- human- race horse is something most of the armchair critics do not seem to acknowedge. Sooner or later a horse of the latter variety has to learn the human can and will be in charge. Manners cant be instilled in this type from love only - just think how tough a herd leader horse would be in these circumstances to an unsocialised horse .....
 
The horse all professional trainers hate the most is the home bred, spoilt, never-been-chastised brat that this one sounds like. Oh, and anything named "Baby"...........When I was a very young apprentice at a pro yard (40 years ago; yikes!), the conundrum was explained thus: if owners never whack/discipline a horse and allow it to misbehave, when you get it in for breaking at 3 you have to instil 3 years worth of whacking all in a couple of weeks. Horsemen don't like whacking, so it's not fair on either the horse or the trainer. And for those who believe that using a pressure halter (dually, rope thingy, whatever) is non-violent, think again.
 
If the OP can't control her temper, she shouldn't be working with horses or any animal. It is not the animals fault, but the way it's been brought up, and would you like to have a person like this handling your horse I certainly wouldn't. :(
 
If you notice, there have been several posts which show that horses are significantly improved with the application of a little "tough love". There is a difference between giving a horse a timely whallop (whether administered in a temper or otherwise) and beating it: no one condones irrational punishment - quite apart from anything else it doesn't work. The horse in question seems to have been considerably improved through the medium of a swift kick up the backside.
 
we live the same life! i'm a stay in groom with a soft spot for the cat, but thankfully all the horses here are very calm its the doberman that is out of hand! very scary dog indeed! my advice is do what you think is working and if all she listens to is rough handling then thats all you can do but when she starts to respect you that's when you start to lessen the 'rage'... if that makes sense?!
 
I have admit to ours had a lot of tough 'love' and her reaction when we said no to her would have been funny if it had not been so antisocial .
16.2 of well built ID/ TB who thinks humans are servants to do her bidding is not a nice horse to know .
I did eventually become her boss but she always thought I ran the yard and she was second in command she was always very dominant in the field which actually was great there was very little mucking about when she was there.
And I agree with Cortez never buy anything called baby unless it's clearly ironic .
Ours was called Poppet I changed it .
 
Cortez said:
If you notice, there have been several posts which show that horses are significantly improved with the application of a little "tough love". There is a difference between giving a horse a timely whallop (whether administered in a temper or otherwise) and beating it: no one condones irrational punishment - quite apart from anything else it doesn't work. The horse in question seems to have been considerably improved through the medium of a swift kick up the backside.
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We are talking 13hands, not 17 hands of fire eating warmblood. I hate temper with horses or any animal for that matter as I feel it gets you nowhere in the long run. There is an art to finding what suits a horse and setting your stall to suit it with minimum fuss and no shouting and certainly no beatings. It just takes patience. To lose temper is admitting defeat and showing frustration. Cortez I have respect for you and I am sure your repremands will have been administered in a very controlled and thought out manner and your temper will have never been lost. But you are you and you should not advocate the same measure with a person who claims to *hate* a horse.
 
How do I type this without sounding sycophantic .... I'd let Cortez and Goldenstar deal with my horses any day. I'm all for NH but sometimes I don't think horses have problems but they just want to be gits! Don't we all? I know, I know ... they don't think like us but I think they do in their own way. We want them to do something and they don't want to so we persuade them for want of a better word. Maybe horses resist just because they freaking well feel like it! Imo it's not always related to pain or fear there are just so many other emotions involved. How to explain - I guess I find it hard to understand that an animal that learns from physical punishment in its own environment doesn't get it.
 
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