Debris in carpet fibre arena surface

[soloequestrian]

I bought some carpet fibre from a local yard who had ordered slightly too much. I put it down today and found a piece of glass, some broken china, a bit of metal carpet strip stuff, a small bit of electrical wire and quite a few bottle tops and hard bits of plastic.
I've had two lots of fibre previously from a company that now no longer operates and have never seen anything other than bits of carpet in it.
The yard I bought today's stuff from said that their experience has always been that fibre has small quantities of foreign material mixed in with it and the suppliers only give a guarantee that it will be 99.something carpet.
Is this normal?

 

[mariew]

No idea but I certainly would've be comfortable with stuff that has broken glass and China in it. I have never come across it though before.

 

[ihatework]

Carpet gallop by any chance???
No it shouldn’t be normal to have foreign objects in a horse surface. Unfortunately not all manufacturers are so diligent.

 

[Ownedby4horses]

Absolutely not normal. A proper surface will have been screened for anything metal, sharp. It sounds like a very cheap product.

We laid an arena in the UK by hand and had huge bags of product (made by the same manufacturer of Flexiride), we split the bags and laid by hand and there wasn’t one sharp bit in it.

 

[BBP]

As far as I can tell, much carpet fibre is a waste disposal activity sold to poor suckers who dont know any better. The people selling this poor quality contaminated stuff should be sending it to landfill at a cost to them in excess of £100 per tonne, and yet people are paying them to get rid of it. They are basically using you as an illegal tipping site and leaving the landfill costs up to you. Recycling of carpet for equestrian purposes has til now fallen under a ‘low risk waste position’ which means as long as they meet certain criteria, the ‘recyclers’ don’t have to have a permit to carry out the work, meaning their process and output is unregulated. This has just been withdrawn so Im wondering if from 2021 operators will have to get a permit which means it’s not quite such an easy ride for rogue operators.

 

[soloequestrian]

Yes, now I've had more of a chance to ponder I'm pretty sure the stuff I bought originally was made from new carpet whereas this is obviously not - there was a bit of metal joining strip in it. Felt like it was carpet that had been rolled up with stuff still inside it and then put through the chopper. I'm not sure which company it was but discussion suggested it wasn't the only one that does this.
My first batches - the ones that were perfect - came from 'Equicon' run by Brennan Keogh. We're wondering if he went out of business because he ended up being undercut by the people supplying cheaper contaminated fibre.

 

[BBP]

I think a lot will be recycled, or off cuts of new from the motor industry. (When we were looking one guy said it was new shredded stuff offcut from landrover mats or something, but when I asked for more details on how it was processed the guy disappeared, so I didn’t go for them). No problem with recycled stuff, im always a fan of diverting from landfill, as long as it’s properly treated, not just shoved through a shredder without any other processes or checks. Properly treated does mean the producers costs are higher, so likely to be a higher product cost to the consumer, so your last comment is bang on in terms of how the waste industry works.

 

[brightmount]

That’s totally not OK, and dangerous for any horse being ridden on it. I recently saw a Facebook post by someone who had the exact same experience. They got the firm back to remove it but still lost money. It’s complicated for you since you bought it from a third party, but you and they both have a dangerous surface, and the supplier needs to remove it and refund the original purchaser.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Think that the racing yard in Scotland that EKW works at had a duff delivery of ?carpet gallop?, with a lot of contaminants in it?

ETA Just had a search, can’t find it, does she have a different festive username?

ETA2
https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/carpet-gallop.751987/

 

[brightmount]

Tiddlypom, you’re right, it was Carpet Gallop, and the post was on the Equestrian Scammers Facebook page, but was only the latest of many posts about this company. Going by the photos, the stuff supplied was really shocking.

 

[soloequestrian]

Just read that thread about Carpet Gallop - mine is nowhere near as bad thankfully! I'll have a chat to the yard next time I'm there and see which company they used. I'm not overly concerned about injury - I think anything solid would be pushed into the surface (it's sand and fibre mixed) rather than into a horse if they found it with a hoof, and there isn't much of the debris. I will keep an eye on it though.
The trouble seems to be that a few people have had less than perfect fibre supplied and having had no other experience, accepted it as normal. Because of that others are thinking it's normal and not doing anything about it. If everyone got cross with the companies involved perhaps they would stop doing it. If I had dealt with the company directly I would be spitting feathers.

 

[Shysmum]

A yard I was on put carpet fibre in the sand school. It was then rendered useless because we kept finding shards of glass in it. ?

 

[rider74]

Has nothing to do with contaminates or whether the carpets are new or old. It’s what they are made off. ALL carpets used for riding surfaces are made out of plastics...acrylic, polyester, polypropylene etc etc. Thanks, much to David Attenborough, we are trying to cut down on plastic waste and pollution in our waterways. The Environment Agency has withdraw acceptance of carpet fibres due to pollution. All arenas and gallops have drainage underneath so all the plastic fibres are being washed down into the watercourses and boreholes. Not good for horses and riders to breath plastic microfibres in as they get very dusty in the Summer. Why on earth it was sold in the first place beats me, it was very obvious from the start it was going to be a huge environmental and health problem. Now, whoever has got these surfaces will have to pay huge landfill costs to get rid of it. This is the link to The Environment Agency withdrawal....from 17th June

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...d-waste-carpet-in-equestrian-surfaces-lrwp-43

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Has nothing to do with contaminates or whether the carpets are new or old. It’s what they are made off. ALL carpets used for riding surfaces are made out of plastics...acrylic, polyester, polypropylene etc etc. Thanks, much to David Attenborough, we are trying to cut down on plastic waste and pollution in our waterways. The Environment Agency has withdraw acceptance of carpet fibres due to pollution. All arenas and gallops have drainage underneath so all the plastic fibres are being washed down into the watercourses and boreholes. Not good for horses and riders to breath plastic microfibres in as they get very dusty in the Summer. Why on earth it was sold in the first place beats me, it was very obvious from the start it was going to be a huge environmental and health problem. Now, whoever has got these surfaces will have to pay huge landfill costs to get rid of it. This is the link to The Environment Agency withdrawal....from 17th June

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...d-waste-carpet-in-equestrian-surfaces-lrwp-43

The charge applies to 1000 tonne or more I think which rules out the majority of arenas as they will be 10 tonne tops.

 

[rider74]

Yikes...10 tonnes of plastic waste on my land. No thanks

 

[ycbm]

Has nothing to do with contaminates or whether the carpets are new or old. It’s what they are made off. ALL carpets used for riding surfaces are made out of plastics...acrylic, polyester, polypropylene etc etc. Thanks, much to David Attenborough, we are trying to cut down on plastic waste and pollution in our waterways. The Environment Agency has withdraw acceptance of carpet fibres due to pollution. All arenas and gallops have drainage underneath so all the plastic fibres are being washed down into the watercourses and boreholes. Not good for horses and riders to breath plastic microfibres in as they get very dusty in the Summer. Why on earth it was sold in the first place beats me, it was very obvious from the start it was going to be a huge environmental and health problem. Now, whoever has got these surfaces will have to pay huge landfill costs to get rid of it. This is the link to The Environment Agency withdrawal....from 17th June

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...d-waste-carpet-in-equestrian-surfaces-lrwp-43

Withdrawal of approval for new installations does not mean anyone has to remove an existing surface, stop scaremongering please.

Riding arenas do not generally drain into water courses, they soak away onto surrounding and underlying land and almost never into a borehole, that would be absolutely illegal.

 

[ycbm]

Yikes...10 tonnes of plastic waste on my land. No thanks

Did you join the forum 2 years ago only to campaign about carpet fibre arenas?

I don't even have one, but it does bug me if that's the case and you don't even get your facts right about stuff like drainage into a borehole.
.

 

[rider74]

No...I haven’t been back on here in a good 2 years. An email link popped up in my box about waste carpet and the Environment Agency so I had a look again. We had a borehole put in, they are amazing things to watch being drilled. Like machinery that does oil drilling. Massive. We have a purifier but the water has to be tested every year to check for any pollutants as the water comes from rain which washes down from the surrounding land and then is pumped from the water table. We farm organically so have reams of paperwork about boreholes.

 

[ycbm]

No...I haven’t been back on here in a good 2 years. An email link popped up in my box about waste carpet and the Environment Agency so I had a look again. We had a borehole put in, they are amazing things to watch being drilled. Like machinery that does oil drilling. Massive. We have a purifier but the water has to be tested every year to check for any pollutants as the water comes from rain which washes down from the surrounding land and then is pumped from the water table. We farm organically so have reams of paperwork about boreholes.

You have made very few posts and every single one is about carpet fibre. If that's why you joined the forum and stay on it, fine, but please get your facts right.

The new rule doesn't even ban new installations!
.

 

[ycbm]

. We had a borehole put in, they are amazing things to watch being drilled.

It is, isn't it? Here's mine when it strikes water. Great fun.

We have a purifier but the water has to be tested every year to check for any pollutants as the water comes from rain which washes down from the surrounding land and then is pumped from the water table. We farm organically so have reams of paperwork about boreholes.

Domestic supplies aren't required to be tested at all. Your requirement is presumably because of your commercial and/or organic status. I understand your concerns as an organic farmer but please get your facts right about riding arenas, they are categorically not allowed to drain into a borehole.

 

[rider74]

Domestic supplies are and should be tested. If you have a borehole put in, as we did, septic tanks have to be at least 30 metres away from a borehole, farm sheds 50m, fuel storage 100m, Cemeteries 500m. This is because water drains into the water table from which boreholes feed. Anyway, I’m off. I only looked again at the carpet link because an email came in from H&H. Don’t email me again please.

 

[ycbm]

Domestic supplies are and should be tested. If you have a borehole put in, as we did, septic tanks have to be at least 30 metres away from a borehole, farm sheds 50m, fuel storage 100m, Cemeteries 500m. This is because water drains into the water table from which boreholes feed. Anyway, I’m off. I only looked again at the carpet link because an email came in from H&H. Don’t email me again please.

I have never emailed you, I do not have your email address. If you are receiving emails it is from HHO, not from me.

I have never even private messaged you. Everything i have said to you has been on the open forum.

I don't know why you are trying to tell me about borehole legislation, I showed you a video of my own borehole here striking water!

It has been in 2 years and there has never been any suggestion that we are required to have it tested any more than was done on installation. I am surrounded by friends with boreholes. None of us test. It is, I understand, the responsibility of the Local Authority and ours gave it up except on request over 20 years ago.

 

[rider74]

They come from you in my email box via the H&H forum. Which bit of don’t contact me again do you not understand? STOP. Chill.

 

[ihatework]

They come from you in my email box via the H&H forum. Which bit of don’t contact me again do you not understand? STOP. Chill.

?????
You do realise you get an auto email to tell you there is a response to your post don’t you???
It’s a function you can turn of in your settings!

 

[Goldenstar]

Rider74 just turn the function off , ycbm has no control of it .

 

[rider74]

Excellent. Thanks for that, appreciated. I rarely go onto this forum so you are blocked??

 

[rider74]

?????
You do realise you get an auto email to tell you there is a response to your post don’t you???
It’s a function you can turn of in your settings!

Ihatework...thanks for that. I rarely go onto the forums!

 

[ycbm]

Any apology for you accusing me of harassing you by personal email, repeated after I told you I hadn't sent them but HHO had?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Excellent. Thanks for that, appreciated. I rarely go onto this forum so you are blocked??

Who is blocked? You’ve blocked yourself from receiving auto response email notifications?

 

[rider74]

Not you tiddlypom, I’ve blocked ycbm. I’m not coming on here again....last time was 2 years ago. There must be brilliant blogs, and helpful I’m sure, but there seems to be people on here who seem to grind axes. I’m just someone who farms organically with an opinion, but I’m off.