Deciding on Kissing Spine Surgery and coping with rehab...HELP!! (also in vet)

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Ivebeentangoed

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After trying numerous things with my boy he is still completely unrideable.

If the insurance say they are going to pay it will come down to the decision of whether I want to put him through surgery or not. He is a 9 year old 16.3 ISH.

The vet advised he would be on 3-4 months box rest, with walking out in hand and progressing to lunging etc.

I work full time in London and leave my house at 7am and dont get home till 6.30pm. I worry that I would only be able to get up there once in the evening to get him out for a stretch. Also I dont know how he will cope with all that time in his stable, he is a big boy!!

The vet also said that she cant guaruntee that he will be brand new once I am back on, she said that a lot of horses suffer mentally still where they are so used to being in pain.

Has anyone been through all this?? If so how did you know that it was the right decision to make??!!

I dont even want to think about whats going to happen if the insurance company dont pay out....
 
Hi, PM if you want :)

I worried about coping with the rehab but had to do something for my horse, so she had the surgery (only option!) and then went away for the rehab ~ full livery...I was SOOOOO poor but worth it to know that she was getting the correct rehab...even in all the snow they dug a circle so she could be lunged!!! god bless martin collins arenas! It has taken her a long time to fully recover, but its the best thing i ever did..also my mare was 17 when operated on (19 in Jan) (but according to dentist she is in her 20s!!!)

x
 
HollyP said:
Hi, PM if you want :)

I worried about coping with the rehab but had to do something for my horse, so she had the surgery (only option!) and then went away for the rehab ~ full livery...I was SOOOOO poor but worth it to know that she was getting the correct rehab...even in all the snow they dug a circle so she could be lunged!!! god bless martin collins arenas! It has taken her a long time to fully recover, but its the best thing i ever did..also my mare was 17 when operated on (19 in Jan) (but according to dentist she is in her 20s!!!)

x
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Ditto this. I am a physio and would highly recommend your horse going away for rehab post surgery. I have known a number of success stories after taking this route.
 
Hiya :)
A girl at my yard has had a horse who has just come back into work after a kissing spine operation.
He has lots of physio and is now back to being ridden, a real success.
Hope this helps!
 
Sorry to read this :(

My horse never recovered from the surgery - only removed one dorsal spine - and she was put down 3 years later after trying everything.

She had the operation in September 2007 and was on box rest for a very long time - can't remember how long - but had to be walked out twice a day, everyday, straight after the Op; that then progressed to lunging for up to 45 minutes on the Pessoa at the end of the process. I rode her for the first time again on Christmas day 2007. By March 2008 we were back to square one and the supraspinous ligament got weaker and weaker around the Op site. She was put in foal and given every opportunity and bit of treatment going, but she was PTS in August this year for a multitude of problems linked to her back - one of which was the Op had caused arthritis.

HollyP - what a wonderful livery to dig the circle out. If only all were like that! Also, how did she manage for 17 years prior to the Op?

Ps, my horse was 7 when she was operated on!
 
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I keep him on full livery at the moment anyway so maybe I would be able to come up with an arrangement with the YO where she walked him out for me in the mornings.

Obviously we are at the beginning of the winter now so I also have the worry of heavy snow stopping us from getting our walking done.

Jess1 - I am so sorry to hear your mare didnt make it in the end. What a difficult time that must have been for you. At least you know you tried everything you could to get her back on track.

HollyP - What a success! Bet you are so pleased, well done you for giving her a chance at a late age, I know a lot of people that would have retired the horse at that age.

There does seem to be a high success rate of horses that have had the op! I just worry that 1. he wont cope with the box rest and 2. that I wont have the time to dedicate to him during rehab.

Maybe I should enquire about rehab livery before I make any decisions.
 
Not first hand but a good friend at our yard is going through this right now. Her boy had a pretty major op in that he had 4 discs removed. I would be interested to hear about the post op option and would recommend you look at that and see if your insurance might cover it. My friend has nearly completed the HOUR of walking daily which she splits into 2 - before and after work. She has a full TB who is now getting incredibly bored, has to always have a horse in the barn with him and has still got the lunging to get through. She is very experienced but if you think you are going to struggle with the post op care then you do need to think very carefully as it is a major committement and you can't cut corners. In my friends case, her boy is making a very good recovery, having scared the proverbial out of everyone on the operating table. Sorry to also be the voice of doom but in his case, his final bill actually went past the annual amount and my friend has had to meet part of the cost herself. Her boy will go back in the new year to see how he is healing but that is pretty impressive - it has gone from being incredibly gruesome to seeming to heal well.

She will be running our yard in the new year so we are in transit at the moment - if you are interested pm me and I can see if she would be interested in doing a recup livery seeing as she is doing this at the moment for hers.
 
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Hi, the mare we brought last year has kissing spine in two places under her saddle area.
We brought her as a companion as her owner was quoted £6k for the opp, and the insurance company wouldn't pay out.
She did consider paying for the op herself but she was told it would only be a 50/50 chance and she would of had to pay for full livery as she worked in a long way away and long hours.
She was told it would be about a year after the opp that she could start to work her again, but after thinking about it, and the fact the mare was very dangerous to get on just before she was fully diagonosed (she was a good girl before the pain started) she decided against it but was told that she could be a brood mare.

If your insurenace company will pay out and your vet thinks your horse has a high chance of a full recovery and you can afford the livery costs then id do it.
 
Thanks Luci07, once I know a bit more about my situation with the insurance ill let you know.

There is no way I can afford it by myself. Tango has become dangerous and put me in hospital one of the times he had me off, he's had a cortisone injection, physio, lunging in pessoa for 5 weeks and there is no change in him whatsoever.

SNORKEY - Can I ask how much you paid for her as a companion? The worry in selling him as a companion is the fact that a few years down the line he will be sold on, getting in the wrong hands and being ridden with people who just think he is being naughty (I think this is what has happened before I bought him)
 
Ivebeentangoed, thank you!

You seem to be going through the same process as we did - when it was first diagnosed the vets said lunge her on the Pessoa - we did this for what seemed an eternity from April - September and go no where. It's so sad these horses are subject to such a nasty problem as most try so hard until it is just too much!

The op for my mare cost £1100 all in, but that was only to remove one dorsal process. After all the physio we had maxed out the £5k claim though - you wonder where it all goes :confused:

After the op we bred from her and she was absolutely fine, she was then bought back in to work and lasted 5 months.

I considered the companion option for my other horse who was also operated on for stifle problems and we even emailed WHW to ask their opinion on companions and they said the kindest thing is to PTS. They both maxed out £5k claims were young and sadly had no comfortable future and they went a month a part this summer :(

I am so sorry I only have negative stories to tell - I wonder sometimes that I shouldn't comment on some posts, but sometimes you have to be realistic. There are lots of positives though and you have to look at it that vets wouldn't recommend the operations if they weren't successful. I hope the insurance company pays out - who are you insured with?

Do let us know how you get on!

Good luck with it all and keep your chin up :)
 
My friends horse had the surgery and luckily it all worked out well. Think he had 3-4 spinous processes removed. Luckily he coped with the box rest however he was also in rehab at the therapy centre, and was attended regularly by the vets and physios etc.

After the rehab, he went back into work and is now BE eventing, hunting, hacking etc. There are many successful stories as well as non-successful, and I think it all depends on the horse, rehab, vets and physios, and how you as the owner manage your horse.

If I were you I would definitely look into rehab/therapy livery, if not then sort out an arrangement with your YO?
 
Yes everyone around me told me not to do it! But i couldnt not operate she was in pain! :) plus insurance finally agreed to pay!

Can your livery yard offer to do any of the lunging if you cant get there? We did use a horse walker for the in hand walking...meant that she could go on that for 30 min or so...then be lunged! I was worried about how she would cope on box rest but she was brilliant, maybe it helped that she went straight to a new yard so knew no different! She is a weaver but she coped beautifully...:) i was very pleased with her she was a sweet heart to walk in hand too! I was very lucky...as she is a very sharp!

Bridie went to rehab nearly 2 hours away from me...www.wiltsberksliverystables.co.uk found them just by chance :)

xx
 
My TB was diagnosed with a kissing spine in September, we where told our only option was surgery or PTS, as the vets felt that cortisone wasnt going to work in his case and he was in a lot of discomfort just standing around in his stable, so retirement not an option either. We made the very hard decision to PTS.

He had 10 points kissing, he also had other problems, (arthritis in neck and hocks and wind problems, plus an undiagnosed but suspected issue in his stifle) additionally he was approaching 14, and wasnt the easiest horse to deal with at the best of times.

We too worried about the aftercare, as I am on a yard by myself with noone to help etc but the main thing for me was that his long term prospects of a happy life where in question.

The what ifs and maybes play on my mind daily, I miss him constantly and I find it hard that I will never really know what I did was for the best. whilst I dont know that I made the right decision I dont think i made a wrong decision if that makes sense?? because the decision I made was out of love and concern for his wellbeing and quality of life. I couldnt give him a pain free and happy life so I felt I had to do it for him.

I cant comment on insurance, becuase that was never in the equasion, I didnt even get as far as asking them because if they hadnt have paid I would have found the money, even if that meant selling every item I own.

I am sorry you are in this position and I know how awful you must feel - my sympathies - PM me if you like x
 
heather_bambi said:
There are many successful stories as well as non-successful, and I think it all depends on the horse, rehab, vets and physios, and how you as the owner manage your horse.
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Sometimes though you can do everything and still get no where. We had the best and specialist KS surgeon operate on her and did it all by the book... It's not just simply down to how the case is managed - unless you go to the extreme of completely ignoring what the vet has said!!!

It'll either work or it won't and if it doesn't it's not anyone's fault, especially not the owner.

It's a very difficult situation to be in and I just hope this and many others have happy endings!! :)

PS, heather_bambi, I'm sure you didn't mean the comment with the intent in which I took it, but management doesn't really come in to it if you do as the vets/physios etc have advised!!
 
little_rou - That brought a tear to my eye (v emotional at the mo :rolleyes:) That is a severe case isnt it having 10 impingments, Tango only has 2 15th/16th and 16th/17th. He is fine whilst being lunged and going out, its just as soon as you put your weight on him he turns himself inside out. It seems to me that you made the best decision you could for him.

TicTac - thanks for your pm, we will stay in touch xx

I have been quoted £3000-£5000 for the operation, plus £45 per visit for the physio, plus hire of a box every time we need to go to the vets.. As much as I would love to there is no way I could afford that by myself

xx
 
Jess1 said:
PS, heather_bambi, I'm sure you didn't mean the comment with the intent in which I took it, but management doesn't really come in to it if you do as the vets/physios etc have advised!!
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No, I did not mean it how you took it.

I mean I know of some people who have ignored the vets advice, carried on with their horses as normal and obviously it hasn't worked out, therefore management can come into it.

Obviously it is with everything in life, you can do EVERYTHING by the book, and sometimes it just won't happen, sometimes it's all just down to luck! I wasn't talking about your case, as I think I was typing whilst you were so didn't see your post :)
 
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Gosh little_rou that is mega kissing spine :( poor horsey, i think you did the right thing by your horse.

Even though i sent Bridie away for rehab I still had another year of getting her sane and building up topline, i know i couldnt of handled it at the time as i was too stressed with all the drama with vets, insurance, life! now i would do things differently but then its because iv had the experience. I dont want to do it again...i know il be getting my horses back xrayed next time!! haha!!

x
 
heather_bambi said:
No, I did not mean it how you took it.

I mean I know of some people who have ignored the vets advice, carried on with their horses as normal and obviously it hasn't worked out, therefore management can come into it.

Obviously it is with everything in life, you can do EVERYTHING by the book, and sometimes it just won't happen, sometimes it's all just down to luck! I wasn't talking about your case, as I think I was typing whilst you were so didn't see your post :)
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No worries - crossed threads as it were! :)

Luck is a big factor sometimes and we've had naff all, but this hopefully means the good luck is going to other people and in this thread especially I hope everyone who is currently in this situation has all the good luck going and at least a few happy endings!!! :)

Little_Rou, :( So sorry to read!!
 
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Yes his case was pretty bad, bless him, he soldiered on for soo long, in such pain I rode him for months before I even had a hint that something was wrong - he tried soo hard to please, gosh am having a little cry at my desk now just thinking about him - he was a truely very special boy, and my time with him was soo short.

But I'm not as tough and strong at decision making - I have a now retired cob, who was a horse of a life time, very special boy - got me back me in the saddle and out competing after years of awful confidence issues. He was diagnosed with a keratoma last year and we operated, at the time his chances of a full recovery where very good. but there where complications - 12k and 3 rounds of surgery later we brought him home. whilst we believe he is happy and comfortable now, we still havent been able to bring him back into work and hes likely to never really be much more than a very light hack.

I am thankful that he is here at all - and tell him every day how special he is, however I know I should have called it a day when his complications became apparent, but I couldnt let him go. I know in my heart I went through it all because I was too selfish to do what was right. Because I couldnt imagine life without him, I convinced my self I was doing the right thing.

Afterwards I promised my self and the rest of my herd I wouldnt do it again. That I wouldnt let my own feelings cloud my judgement of doing what was right.

No two cases are ever the same, and one illness/horse can never be compared to the other.

And giving a horse a chance is never selfish, nor is admitting that for whatever reason you cant go there with the treatment.


whatever decision you make is going to be hard, and unfortunately no0one can answer your questions better than you - good luck with what ever you choose to do xx
 
Again... more tears!

This past week has been such an emotional one for me, I cant hold them in!!

Thanks for your support, I will of course keep you all updated as to what I decide. I think both options are extremely difficult in such different ways.

xx
 
Work with basic facts first. i.e costs and will insurance cover him, what would rehab and travelling cost as well. There is no point in putting yourself through the agonies of a decision only to find that, in the light of day, you simply can not afford to do this.

Friends horse did go down the same route as yours (injections, lunging etc) but he really does seem to on the road to recovery..
 
Luci07 said:
Work with basic facts first. i.e costs and will insurance cover him, what would rehab and travelling cost as well. There is no point in putting yourself through the agonies of a decision only to find that, in the light of day, you simply can not afford to do this.

Friends horse did go down the same route as yours (injections, lunging etc) but he really does seem to on the road to recovery..
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absolutely - or worse get half way down the road and not be able to see it through.
 
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