Deciding when to back and pressure.

Slave2Magic

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My youngster is 3 today and irish draught cross. He is 17 hands at the moment and obviously still growing. I have people saying back him this year as he needs something to do and others saying leave him until next year. I know what my thoughts are but I am interested in the opinion of you good people. He is to keep and not sell on.
 

Tobiano

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Well my rising 3 yo has just been backed. Lightweight rider, bit of walk and trot around the farm. Will do 20 mins twice a week for the next few months then turn away til next year. He is the kind who is so interested and wants to do stuff - and also can get up to mischief if not given enough interesting things to do. I've never really believed in backing too early but I think this is fine for him as he wont do any jumping or have anyone heavy (eg me!) on him until he is at least 4 and then not both at once!!
 

Magnetic Sparrow

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I would consider backing this summer, but at three and growing probably not doing anything else much this year. If he was mine I'd back and get him going on the lunge and long reins but gently and not too much stress on his joints, turn away for the winter and then bring him on properly when he was four.

I'm certain not everyone would agree.
 

PorkChop

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If he was mine I would definitely start him this year, though I would do very little ridden work.

Imho plenty of long lining will do him no harm, I would probably do two days lining and then a day off.
 

Shutterbug

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My youngster will be 3 in a few weeks. He is currently being long lined/lunged a few times a week and has been bitted and had saddle sat on his back. I will lightly back him towards the end of this summer, doing some light walking and trotting 20 mins of so a few times a week either in the school or out a short hack, and properly start working him in his 4th year.
 

Pearlsasinger

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We have a rising 4 yr Appaloosa and a rising 3 yr cob. The Appy was backed before we bought her last July and has since been left to grow on, although handled daily. She will be re-started soon. The cob is still has a lot of growing to do. She has had tack on and been long-reined previously and *may* be lightly backed at the end of the summer but then will be left to grow over next winter before we ask her to do any real work. We intend to keep them both for a long time and have no intention of ruining any joints by asking for too much, too soon.
 

Fides

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I would look at bum and chest - if he is bum high and narrow in the chest he is likely to physically struggle.

My boy was physically and mentally not ready at 3, at 4 I backed him and did a little but felt he still wasn't ready so turned him away again and just stuck to groundwork. This is him at 5 and he is still a little narrow across the chest but much better than he was.

56454B60-B0AD-429B-AED2-42C3D63A3A89_zpssm6nxrms.jpg


You know your horse best so do what you feel is right. You have years of fun with him, but also potentially years of problems if you rush it and it all goes wrong. Stick to your guns. One day you will just know that the time is right.
 

Spot_the_Risk

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We have a gelding just turned three, 15.2hh now and looking well. He is bored and therefore gets himself into trouble, currently with a nasty infected flesh would which necessitated the vet yesterday! It would do him good to go away for a few weeks education.

Last year I had my then riding four year old backed, we left hi until then as he simply didn't need backing any earlier, he was no trouble as a youngster and has been no trouble since backing either!
 

Sugar_and_Spice

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My opinion is there is too much faffing about in the world. It's 3, ride it. Not hard and fast or for long periods, but ride it. That's what you bought the horse for (presumably) and a little pottering around once a week, learning some basics and seeing the world, isn't going to send it to an early grave.
 

Fides

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My opinion is there is too much faffing about in the world. It's 3, ride it. Not hard and fast or for long periods, but ride it. That's what you bought the horse for (presumably) and a little pottering around once a week, learning some basics and seeing the world, isn't going to send it to an early grave.

No but I can cause spinal weakness resulting in kissing spines and joint issues as they haven't yet fused. Not all the time of course but it can - hence why I would leave a bum high, narrow chested. I did back my mare at 3 and a half and started working her properly at 4 but she was a solid little thing.
 

Spring Feather

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My 3 year old Hanoverian filly is being backed at the moment. She has been desperate to get out and do things for at least a year now so the timing is right for her. I also have a 3 year old Oldenburg gelding and I will be starting to back him over the summer. He'd be ready now too but he's a more laid back character so he can wait till I have more time.

OP you know your horse best so do what you think would suit him and you. I've backed horses from 2 years old to 8 years old, I go by what the individual horse is like and don't pander to pressure from anyone else.
 

maggiesmum

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I have a 6yo who will be backed this year, last year we did lots of groundwork but mentally she wasn't ready so I didn't take it further.
Ignore the pressure from others, I've had plenty of that but she's mine and I shall do what I think is best for her, having lost my gelding to kissing spines last year I'm glad I've waited till her spine has settled before asking it to carry weight.
 

Peregrine Falcon

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I have a 4yo NF mare, there's no way that I would have backed her last year as immature. I haven't backed her yet either, I will when I feel she is ready. I don't care what anyone else says, I know my pony and she's for keeps so there's no rush.
 

mainpower

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Does depend on the horse, both his physical and mental maturity should be taken into consideration. The youngster I have now was very croup high, and looked like a "cut and shut" until he was 5. I backed him as a late 4yo, restarted at 5, light work through 5/6 years and it's only now at 7 that he has the physical and mental strength to be working properly.

He's ID/Section D, so both late maturing breeds.

My golden oldie, 22yo TB/ID X Section D was backed at 3, roughed off, and brought into work at 4. He's never had a day sick or sorry.
 

Wagtail

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I would back my rising 3 filly this year if she was mature enough, but she is still very small and needs to gain some bulk before getting on her. I will do a small amount of ground work this summer. Not too much as I feel too much work would affect her growth. The two year old on the other hand will be backed next summer. He is a naughty soanso an I would not like to wait until he is much bigger and stronger to start him. So they will both be backed next summer at the same time.
 

Meowy Catkin

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There's no such thing as an early maturing breed or a late maturing breed! Skeletally, no horse or pony is mature until it is a minimum of 5 1/2 years old. Really big horses need more time, simply because they are so big, so might need until they are 6 1/2.

I really thought that the world and his wife would have read this by now, it's been linked to so often. Here it is again for those who have missed it. :) http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf Skip to page six if you don't want to read the whole thing.

S2M - he's your horse, you need to decide what you are happy with him doing. The fact that you are thinking about it carefully means that you are unlikely to overwork/overload him (both mentally and physically) whatever you decide.
 

Auslander

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I think we have 20 years worth out of riding out of our horses, so i'm happy to let them have 4 years of being a baby. i've never backed anything of my own until it's 4 years old, and I've hated having to back them younger as part of my job.

i'd rather let them have a last year of doing their own thing, and back them at 4 when they have an additional year of growth. I don't care if they're big, rambunctious, bored, whatever. It's complete tosh that 3 yr olds need to be worked because they are bored and naughty. They aren't bored, they're simply doing what babies do, and I would far rather see them mucking around in the field with their mates, than being started too young.

Fully aware that this is an unpopular stance, but that's how I feel.
 

Ladyinred

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There's no such thing as an early maturing breed or a late maturing breed! Skeletally, no horse or pony is mature until it is a minimum of 5 1/2 years old. Really big horses need more time, simply because they are so big, so might need until they are 6 1/2.

I really thought that the world and his wife would have read this by now, it's been linked to so often. Here it is again for those who have missed it. :) http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf Skip to page six if you don't want to read the whole thing.

S2M - he's your horse, you need to decide what you are happy with him doing. The fact that you are thinking about it carefully means that you are unlikely to overwork/overload him (both mentally and physically) whatever you decide.



Flippin forum lost my reply!!

Faracat I am in full agreement with you and have posted the Ranger study many many times.

All I will add is that mental maturity and attitude to work should also be considered. Our youngest Sec D was nowhere near mentally mature at 4 but by the time she was five we backed her no problem at all.
 

Cortez

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My opinion is there is too much faffing about in the world. It's 3, ride it. Not hard and fast or for long periods, but ride it. That's what you bought the horse for (presumably) and a little pottering around once a week, learning some basics and seeing the world, isn't going to send it to an early grave.

This ^^^ entirely. Be sensible, don't over do or jump the legs off it, etc. and the horse will benefit by a bit of work. I've always broken horses at 3, usually with a spot of lunging in tack at 2 1/2, and have never had problems with KS or whatever (and I used to break 20-30 horses a year on average). There have been studies (proper scientific ones) that showed that horses which did a bit of work at 3 had improved bone and tendon strength.
 

amandap

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There's no such thing as an early maturing breed or a late maturing breed! Skeletally, no horse or pony is mature until it is a minimum of 5 1/2 years old. Really big horses need more time, simply because they are so big, so might need until they are 6 1/2.

I really thought that the world and his wife would have read this by now, it's been linked to so often. Here it is again for those who have missed it. :) http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf Skip to page six if you don't want to read the whole thing.

S2M - he's your horse, you need to decide what you are happy with him doing. The fact that you are thinking about it carefully means that you are unlikely to overwork/overload him (both mentally and physically) whatever you decide.

I'm with you. Backing early makes no sense to me. Young horses can go out and about in hand, on long reins (if safe to do so) with fit peeps and be ponyed. Tracks can be set up to increase movement for eg.

Ok I'm sure all on H&H are great, balanced riders but we are still a weight on an immature back, body and hooves. It doesn't stop with carrying weight, there's tack, learning about aids and what yougsters might be asked to do.

I realize it's been done forever and many have no problems but does that mean we should carry on? I know I will have to agree to disagee with some far more experienced than me.
 

Alyth

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I would read the Dr. Deb Ranger article where the maturation of the spine is discussed....the last part to mature is the spine..where we sit. :) There is so much we can do with our youngsters without sitting on their backs...and for every year you give them at the start of their lives you get more back at the end..
.
 

JFTDWS

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Mine have been backed at 3, done very little beyond basic control in the 3 y/o year, then moved into more work at 4, turned away in 4th winter and normal work from 5. It's just what works for me.

It's complete tosh that 3 yr olds need to be worked because they are bored and naughty. They aren't bored, they're simply doing what babies do, and I would far rather see them mucking around in the field with their mates, than being started too young.

Backing Dae made a massive difference to his escaping tendencies though. He was better last summer when he was working in hand / long reins semi- regularly / ridden occasionally, got worse over winter when not doing anything, and has been better again this spring... I wouldn't use it as an excuse to do "real" work with a youngster, but sometimes a bit of a job can save a lot of ball ache in terms of fencing solutions and retrieving escaped ponies!


eta

There have been studies (proper scientific ones) that showed that horses which did a bit of work at 3 had improved bone and tendon strength.

There is certainly a scientific rationale to this too.
 
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Cortez

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I would read the Dr. Deb Ranger article where the maturation of the spine is discussed....the last part to mature is the spine..where we sit. :) There is so much we can do with our youngsters without sitting on their backs...and for every year you give them at the start of their lives you get more back at the end..
.

If you mean Dr. Deb Bennett, whom I admire, have met and had many a discussion with, she is a fine academic but not perhaps the most experienced, practical long term rider/trainer.

As for "...and for every year you give them at the start of their lives you get more back at the end..", really? Do you have proof for this?
 

amandap

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So science has no place in the real world? Perhaps we only like the science that says what we wish to hear?

Work doesn't have to be ridden though or does it have to be work! Just increasing movement in the 24 hour period and over different terrain is a huge benefit to hoof development for eg. Hooves take as long as the rest of the body to mature enough to carry the horses adult weight but if you stable 24/7 or shoe this development is greatly reduced. Horses are desiged to move most of the time.
Horses also just seem to me to go along with what is asked until something is badly wrong and they have to complain in ways we can't ignore or put down to personality.
 

Cortez

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Of course science has a place in the world; the world is made of science. But the assumption that you have to wait until a skeleton is fully finished growing/fusing before you can do anything with it would rule out ALL youth sports, for instance, since the human body is not finished growing until about 23-4 years old. I thought sport was good for the young? And a little work is good for a young horse, as proven by, oh yes......science:)
 

amandap

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Yes but we don't go around on children's backs or get them to carry weights while exercizing do we? There is a difference in my view. Of course exercize is beneficial to children and horses.
 

noodle_

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mine is 3.5, shes been backed - in walk and trot, happily hacking out on her own and now moved her out on n 24/7 grazing - which is where shes staying permanently - but shes 14.2 in front and 15hh on the back - and very weak and needs to grow....so she wont be touched again now until shes 4.5

I have another 20+ years to ride - so whats another year? :D

I was going to carry on with her - and ride until winter and turn away but shes too immature and i dont want to ruin her
 

Vickijay

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No but I can cause spinal weakness resulting in kissing spines and joint issues as they haven't yet fused. Not all the time of course but it can - hence why I would leave a bum high, narrow chested. I did back my mare at 3 and a half and started working her properly at 4 but she was a solid little thing.

I think we have 20 years worth out of riding out of our horses, so i'm happy to let them have 4 years of being a baby. i've never backed anything of my own until it's 4 years old, and I've hated having to back them younger as part of my job.

i'd rather let them have a last year of doing their own thing, and back them at 4 when they have an additional year of growth. I don't care if they're big, rambunctious, bored, whatever. It's complete tosh that 3 yr olds need to be worked because they are bored and naughty. They aren't bored, they're simply doing what babies do, and I would far rather see them mucking around in the field with their mates, than being started too young.

Fully aware that this is an unpopular stance, but that's how I feel.

I would read the Dr. Deb Ranger article where the maturation of the spine is discussed....the last part to mature is the spine..where we sit. :) There is so much we can do with our youngsters without sitting on their backs...and for every year you give them at the start of their lives you get more back at the end..
.

I'm pretty much with these people.

It depends on the horse. If it is well grown I have no problem with them being sat on in the autumn of their 3rd year. I don't agree with tons of lunging and think once you have been on a couple of times, had a trot, possibly a little canter & quiet hack that you should leave them again.

I have a rising 4yo, who is not ready to start work properly. I have been on her 5 times in the winter, not doing much but just so she was ok with a rider. She's tall and physically not ready, so much as the plan was to be on her and doing a bit, she remains a field potato until she looks stronger.

I bred her, I plan to keep her, there is zero point in rushing.
 

Spring Feather

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s...and for every year you give them at the start of their lives you get more back at the end..
.
Hmm I'm not so sure about that tbh. I see a lot more horses still sound and being ridden here in their late 20s/30s, who I know have been backed at 2 years old (as is usual in my small part of the world), than I've ever seen in the UK where they were likely backed at 3 or 4 years old.
 
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