Decision time: should I give up on my young lad?

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SadKen

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Yesterday, my 6yo bronked me onto the deck after about 3months of consistent riding. He did it when I asked for canter early in the session. He's done it three times since I bought him Sept last year.

I think he did it yesterday because he's green and unbalanced and I asked for canter too early before he'd warmed up. He'd been doing quite well; he's always been a bit spooky but was schooling nicely and we we're working up to poles.

I'm now unsure whether I should sell. Due to his injury (cut fetlock), he's only been in work really for three months. However, we can't go down the scary end of the school at all and if worried, effectively he loses his mind and panics first asking questions later. Hacking is out of the question completely due to his terror, I worry he will hurt himself or worse.

I'm not enjoying myself now and am scared of him, it's a lot of money to be terrified as we all know. Is it worth sending him on for further training to someone who can be more confident, or should I admit that we don't work as a partnership and see if I can px him to an uncertain future? The thought of it breaks my heart, but better that than something more tangible! Thanks to anyone who got this far! Feedwise no changes, he's on half a scoop of spillers lami balancer and topspec calmer plus 24hr turnout. Back, saddle etc have all been checked.
 
It sounds like a great big mismatch to me. I see this fairly regularly and my advice, although probably not what you want to hear is, move on. Find him 'his person' who does understand him, who is confident and will help him move on. And then you find a horse who is a more confident personality now who will help you become a more confident rider. Yes you could send him off to a trainer who probably will get a lot out of him and could get him riding out quite confidently but then when he comes back? What then? Yes you could have lessons on him and maybe you'd both improve, but enough? Enough for you both be happy? Really happy? It's up to you what you do, I just feel saddened when I read/hear of people who are not enjoying their hobby anymore when the solution seems incredibly simple to me. Best of luck with whatever you do decide to do in the end.
 
Has anyone else tried riding him, by that I mean someone experienced enough to try and overcome his issues? That would be the first thing to do, he should not be so terrified of either one end of a school he goes in regularly or of going out hacking, this with some work could be addressed so he can find a decent home if he is not for you, investing in some help will be worth it whatever you decide at the end of it.
A good trainer should be able to help, plenty of groundwork to get him confident and listening so he does not panic and learns to respond to his trainer, it sounds as if he may have not been properly started with enough desensitising done early in his education, I think he is an Arab if I remember correctly, they are usually people orientated and very willing to learn if they are treated well but if rushed can be flighty and overreactive, not your doing but regaining that trust can take time, he will need a trainer to work on building up his confidence, then hopefully yours as well.
He sounds like the type of project I enjoy but sadly you are a long way from me.
 
I think you are both right. It's kind of hard to accept, I feel like I've failed him as I'm his fifth home in six years. He is an Arab, very much a people pleaser and tries so hard, but I think it's beyond my ability to get to where we both feel safe. He needs that from me, but his unpredictability is like my kryptonite and I can't seem to get over it. Nobody else has ridden him, I don't think my instructor (who is marvellous and has helped us both loads) would want to and I don't know anyone else who has the skill or would fit on him.

We did spend three months just on the ground and he has steadily improved since I got him, but I think this is as far as I can go. Might see if I can fibd a bit of spare cash for a few weeks sales livery with a good trainer, I owe him that at least. Feel so guilty already :(
 
I think he is probably not right for you, but it is very hard to accept at times. You obviously really like the horse, so would it be possible to find an arab orientated person to help get him going, and find the right home for him?
 
Don't feel guilty and don't feel you are giving up. You are just parting, going your separate ways where hopefully you'll get to a place where you will both be much happier individuals :) I always say there's a horse out there for everyone and there's a person out there for every horse.

Sales livery at a good reputable yard is a very good idea. We do sales livery here at my farm (not in your country so I'm not advertising ;) ), mainly it's people in similar situations to you, whereby the horse/rider combination has not worked for whatever reason. I have a lot of contacts and have always found terrific homes for the horses we've sold on behalf of their owners and I also know of a lot of horses around so when people contact me looking for a certain type I can almost always put my messages out to people I know who have these types and who may consider selling. It's a really small world in the area I live in so an awful lot of the horses have been through our hands at some point or another which is great as I get to keep tabs on them all even though they aren't my horses :) Very best wishes finding your perfect partner too.
 
Ok... I've told my mum, my two best mates and my OH that I'm going to sell him. My mum thinks it's for the best, one best mate said she'll miss him but understands, the other one hasn't read her emails yet. OH said at first he will go for meat and I shouldn't have a horse, I thick he's quite attached to the young man but rather fails on the supportive front. He's come round a little now. I have found somewhere to do a bit of work with my boy while he's up for sale so will give them a call tomorrow. Hopefully that will give him a good chance of finding the right home. Thanks folks, just helped me accept the decision a bit, it's been coming for a while but yesterday was the last straw.
 
Sending him to a yard on sales livery where they will put some time into getting him going will help ensure he finds a good home and will make it easier for you as well, it is not easy to try and sell a horse you are struggling with, hopefully they will find the key to him and be able to channel his energy in a useful direction.
I do sales livery and frequently find that once a horse arrives, gets worked hard and into a routine they settle quickly and come right making it easier to place them than first expected.
 
It might be worth posting on arabianlines as they might know a trainer used to arabs in your area. It would also be a good site to advertise him on. :)
 
I am sorry to hear about the problems your having, I think if your now nervous to ride him your making the right decision to sell him, I agree with faracat get on Arabian lines you may find someone who would help get him sorted to sell him, you would also have a better chance selling him to someone suitable if you advertised him on there.
Sounds like you have done all the right things but with him having so many different homes its understandable him having trust issues, Arabs are such people horses and love to bond with one person they trust, its such a shame his had such a rocky start, you have done your best its no wonder its made you nervous I would be the same if a horse did that to me. I hope you manage to find him a lovely home.

I also wanted to say 6 is still very young for many Arabs they just seem to take longer to mature mentally as well as physically than most horses, i have had my arab gelding since he was 2 and i backed him at 4 but he was still such a baby, i took it real slow for quite a few years I tried to show him under saddle at 6 but he was just not ready and i think pushing him would have caused problems, his 9 now and i have only just started to really do tougher schooling with him and i will show him next year, so your horse just may not be ready mentally at 6, and my horse had a good stable home from the age of two with the same owner so maybe he just needs some bonding time to come round.
 
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Oh dear:(
If it's the right decision for you, then sell him on.....I know you'll find the right person for him. If I had a spare stable he could come to me.
He sounds like my Arab at 6...at 8 he's a different animal altogether but if it ain't right, it ain't right.
Have a glass of wine x
 
Is this your chap?
http://www.arabianlines.com/forum1/topic_new.asp?TOPIC_ID=51886&whichpage=1
http://www.arabianlines.com/forum1/topic_new.asp?TOPIC_ID=36981

Is it worth going back to his previous owners and seeing if they are in a position now to buy him back? It sounds like they loved him very much and went through quite a lot with him.

Someone said to me once that arabs, especially sensitive ones, need a 'point of reference' in the world. They don't cope well with lots of changes of ownership and they get 'lost' very easily. It maybe that you aren't your chap's 'point of reference' but if you are going to rehome him you need to do everything in your power to make sure that he finds that 'point of reference' in his next home.

It may also be that, as a young man who had a bit of a rough start in life, that he's now feeling much better and is having a touch of the Kevins. Do you have lessons with him? What does your instructor say?
 
Esther yes that is him, and messaging his last but one owner is on my list to do tomorrow. I will gladly take a low price to reunite my lad with her, she and he got on so well. I really had high hopes for us both and I have no doubt that he will go on to do great things if I can find him someone brimming with confidence; he is very talented and takes a lovely outline. I'm so upset that my riding just isn't up to it; I don't have the balls I used to have to give him the confidence he needs.

I do have a wonderful instructor who has brought us quite a long way, she has always said that she thinks we will get where we want to be eventually. I guess I just don't think my riding is good enough to get through it. My fault, not his.
 
He does sound a lot like mine when I got him and 2 years' in and we are more than happy. As I have told you again and again and again (sorry).

I do think Esther is really right about points of reference. Once my horse knew and trusted me, everything started to work. But..you have been doubtful for a long time and once you have lost commitment it is hard to make progress.

I think whatever you do, you should go through ArabianLines and find an experienced owner. Good luck.
 
He does sound a lot like mine when I got him and 2 years' in and we are more than happy. As I have told you again and again and again (sorry).

I do think Esther is really right about points of reference. Once my horse knew and trusted me, everything started to work. But..you have been doubtful for a long time and once you have lost commitment it is hard to make progress.

I think whatever you do, you should go through ArabianLines and find an experienced owner. Good luck.
 
Yep, I did get him through Arabian lines, and thought we'd be together forever. I will advertise him on there if his previous but one owner can't take him, but will cross my fingers that she can, it would be the perfect outcome for a young lad who doesn't deserve to feel lost. Please cross everything for us! or more importantly for him.
 
I have everything crossed for both of you. That would be a wonderful outcome if his previous owner were to take him back. From reading the thread on AL it sounds like they were perfectly matched :)
 
Arabians are really great horses and very trainable.

You have made and are making the mistake hundreds of other people with horses make. Your horse is not mentally, emotionally or physically fit to ride yet because you haven't put enough in the bank. You need to start from scratch and put a decent foundation on the horse, or get someone to help you and show you what to do, or sell him to someone who knows the situation and will put the work in.
 
I think Pale rider is right I think even six months to a year with just ground work to build trust he will be a different horse, I really hope his old owner will take him back or someone has the time to put into him.
 
I had virtually the same experience as you and IMHO if you're scared of him this will never go away.
I tried for 2 years with my boy and I never got over my fear of him. He is now in a new home and doing great, me and him just weren't to be.
I feel for you as it's heartbreaking
 
That's sad, reading your excitement on the ALs forum.

I know you say your instructor is great but I'd try another one personally, one who will ride him for you and is experienced with Arabs. Do you long rein? Long reining on a circle would be a good way to get him to work in the bit if the school he doesn't like. Even at the end of that if you still want to sell him, he will be more sellable.
 
When you feel like this just stop.
Nothing is worse than getting smashed up when you feared it was coming .
I really hope the old owner can take him back.
It's a horrible situation to be in , but listern to your sixth sense it's telling you to protect your self, do so.
 
I have been in the same situation with my welsh d he kept broncing with me and sent him to be retrained etc and we still werent a great match he is going a loy better now and i ride him occassionally and pay for soneone else to ride him but the confidence still isnt there but saying that i have been trying to sell him for the past year with no luck but got a new one last year and am actually enjoying riding now!
 
Palerider/pinkyboots I don't disagree with either of you, I do think he would be a different horse with a year of groundwork (most horses would be!). He's eminently trainable and very clever; he picked up leg yielding in minutes and loves to go over poles. The fault is not his, it's mine - I know it's my competency that is causing the trouble, but don't think I can improve enough for us both to be safe and enjoying ourselves. I spent a good three months doing just groundwork when I first had him, having established that his education wasn't anywhere near where I thought it was when I saw him before buying. It did help; like I say, he has come a long way and is much more than the horse I bought. However, I have to be realistic. My riding isn't strong and confident enough to give him that point of reference that was mentioned earlier. I have had help (my instructor is really good) but ultimately it's coming down to my frame of mind; that can't really be taught and it's just a gut feeling, probably because I'm a good bit older and less bouncy these days. I would rather find a home for him where someone can put the time in that he really needs to be that something special, than have him languish with me, not progressing and picking up bad habits from my poor riding. It would be OK if I had another horse to ride whilst groundwork was going on, so I could pick up my own confidence and improve my riding; however, a year on the ground will do nothing for my riding and we'd be back where we were at the end of that time. I have a superconfident friend coming tomorrow to ride him for me, as I'm a little worried about getting back on. I'll be honest - I don't have the money to support two, or to invest in the really long term when I think it might not work out due to us not being a match. He's young and sweet and I think this surely gives him the best chance of going to someone suitable. Please don't think it's just that I'm not prepared to put the time in; I have spent the last 10 months trying my heart out for him, I really have.
 
SadKen said:
Palerider/pinkyboots I don't disagree with either of you, I do think he would be a different horse with a year of groundwork (most horses would be!). He's eminently trainable and very clever; he picked up leg yielding in minutes and loves to go over poles. The fault is not his, it's mine - I know it's my competency that is causing the trouble, but don't think I can improve enough for us both to be safe and enjoying ourselves. I spent a good three months doing just groundwork when I first had him, having established that his education wasn't anywhere near where I thought it was when I saw him before buying. It did help; like I say, he has come a long way and is much more than the horse I bought. However, I have to be realistic. My riding isn't strong and confident enough to give him that point of reference that was mentioned earlier. I have had help (my instructor is really good) but ultimately it's coming down to my frame of mind; that can't really be taught and it's just a gut feeling, probably because I'm a good bit older and less bouncy these days. I would rather find a home for him where someone can put the time in that he really needs to be that something special, than have him languish with me, not progressing and picking up bad habits from my poor riding. It would be OK if I had another horse to ride whilst groundwork was going on, so I could pick up my own confidence and improve my riding; however, a year on the ground will do nothing for my riding and we'd be back where we were at the end of that time. I have a superconfident friend coming tomorrow to ride him for me, as I'm a little worried about getting back on. I'll be honest - I don't have the money to support two, or to invest in the really long term when I think it might not work out due to us not being a match. He's young and sweet and I think this surely gives him the best chance of going to someone suitable. Please don't think it's just that I'm not prepared to put the time in; I have spent the last 10 months trying my heart out for him, I really have.
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You sound a lovely owner who has put time and care into him, and who is trying to do the best by him. I hope you find a good home for him. Your dream horse is out there somewhere waiting for you too.
 
Oh what a shame it hasn't worked out. I always think six is a difficult age especially for a horse that hasn't had much consistency in his life. Is it only when you canter that you get problems? I wonder if it's worth sending him to an experienced arab person who could get him hacking out in walk and trot for you and maybe you could get some confidence back riding a horse you feel safe on. As someone else mentioned Arabs do tend to mature late, my mare wasn't backed until five and I spent a year just hacking her out in walk and trot as she was a handful. I then sent her to an excellent dressage trainer for six weeks when she was 7 and after that we didn't look back although I continued to take things very slowly. I'd say she way nearer 8 by the time everything clicked into place consistently.
 
SadKen said:
Palerider/pinkyboots I don't disagree with either of you, I do think he would be a different horse with a year of groundwork (most horses would be!). He's eminently trainable and very clever; he picked up leg yielding in minutes and loves to go over poles. The fault is not his, it's mine - I know it's my competency that is causing the trouble, but don't think I can improve enough for us both to be safe and enjoying ourselves. I spent a good three months doing just groundwork when I first had him, having established that his education wasn't anywhere near where I thought it was when I saw him before buying. It did help; like I say, he has come a long way and is much more than the horse I bought. However, I have to be realistic. My riding isn't strong and confident enough to give him that point of reference that was mentioned earlier. I have had help (my instructor is really good) but ultimately it's coming down to my frame of mind; that can't really be taught and it's just a gut feeling, probably because I'm a good bit older and less bouncy these days. I would rather find a home for him where someone can put the time in that he really needs to be that something special, than have him languish with me, not progressing and picking up bad habits from my poor riding. It would be OK if I had another horse to ride whilst groundwork was going on, so I could pick up my own confidence and improve my riding; however, a year on the ground will do nothing for my riding and we'd be back where we were at the end of that time. I have a superconfident friend coming tomorrow to ride him for me, as I'm a little worried about getting back on. I'll be honest - I don't have the money to support two, or to invest in the really long term when I think it might not work out due to us not being a match. He's young and sweet and I think this surely gives him the best chance of going to someone suitable. Please don't think it's just that I'm not prepared to put the time in; I have spent the last 10 months trying my heart out for him, I really have.
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You can only try,:) The thing is with horses it's all about focus and goals. Some people want a gold medal, others want a nice ride out. Sometimes things won't work for you no matter what you do. Some riders can cope really well with a forward going horse, but go to pieces when they have to motivate one that's not so forward, horses for courses really. If you feel you cannot take yourself any further perhaps you'd both be happier if you parted company. Hard sometimes, but often for the best. This horseriding lark is supposed to be fun remember.:)
 
Just wrote a long post and then deleted it! Grr.
In a nutshell - I had similar issues with my welsh cross and his issues got worse when he went for training. I decided to sell him as too much for me but another trainer said she felt his issues were physical so I have him back and am looking into it. I don't believe that he's a naughty horse - he can be so good but randomly loses his head (only under saddle). I'd always kept up to date with teeth/back/saddle so it's nothing really obvious although since he's come home he's been diagnosed with hind limb lameness but whether this is a long term issue or the result of a recent accident we don't yet know.

On a related note - I also have an arab. Last year we were doing walk-trot dressage but canter was a no-no. She'd buck and kick and headflip in the way only arabs can. She was found to have some bilateral hind lameness and reverse pedal bone rotation. Went on to have remedial trimming (and a bout of lami which I think helped :?). She's now really improving in the canter, no bucking and JUMPS!!!

But I totally respect anyone who admits when they are over-horsed. I am over-horsed with my gelding when he flips out but the rest of the time he's amazing. I need to find out if we can identify the reason behind the flipping out before I throw in the towel (but in all honesty, who's going to buy him anyway the way things are!).
 
I'm not sure this story is any help but i thought I would share it anyway, so you know you aren't alone. I bought my little lad as a 3 year old and backed him myself, having never backed one before. Perhaps I did a terrible job, or perhaps it's just his nature but he was extremely unpredictable. He didn't just react to things, he would blind panic, even at simple stuff that shouldn't have been a big deal. 2 years after backing him, I would still occasionally find myself on a rodeo horse, who would bronc like a wild thing until I was off. he would shake with fear at ridiculous things. I wondered what on earth I had taken on and thought I was way overhorsed.

However, I guess the difference is that I was never afraid of him, or riding him. I was careful, always wore a body protector and if i thought he was in a crazy mindset I would get straight off, turn him out in the arena and let him go wild, then tack up and start again. I have now had him for 4 years and barring not being particularly brave hacking him out alone he is the perfect horse for me. He is a lovely dressage horse, loves jumping, I can ride him bareback with no bridle and steer him with just a hand on his withers (most of the time!), I watched someone else ride him through some trec obstacles this weekend and realised that underneath his hot head is a really responsive pony who is a real pleasure, and I have achieved all that by riding out the storm, staying calm and working with rather than going against his nuty nature. He wants to please and doesn't do many things out of naughtyness, just insecurity.

It's a difficult one, you could figure out of you can work with his nature and end up with the sort of horse mine is becoming but I think if you are genuinely afraid of riding your horse then you will struggle to be the confident leader that he needs. I wish you all the best with your decision, please don't feel guilty whatever you decide, you have to do what is best for you as well as him.
 
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