deeds n easements

[Cahill]

if some one wanted to put underground duct across you grazing land ,what sort of figure would you be asking? (9 acres)

 

[jrp204]

You need to speak to a land agent, they can negotiate for you. You may be able to get your fees paid too.

 

[Cahill]

yes,been offered legal fees to be paid.

just wondering how much £££`s.have been made an offer but seems a bit low to me.

 

[jrp204]

Hand it over to someone who will work to get you the best deal and sort out the legalities. Whereabouts are you?

 

[Bestdogdash]

is it a ransom strip ? By which I mean if you dont allow it, does it mean that a development elsewhere cannot go ahead, or could it go ahead but having to you a different (presumably longer) route for the duct ? Also, what is going inside the duct?

If it is indeed a ransom strip then the value is usually about 30% of the value of the profit estimated for the development. If not a ransom, but is a shorter route than the person would otherwise use, then I would expect 50% of the saving.

 

[Cahill]

it is a bit `out of the blue` at the moment.
ducting for very large solar farm.
it may be a ransom situation as we are bounded by a stream and railway.

I need to gather more info. ty

 

[Dry Rot]

it is a bit `out of the blue` at the moment.
ducting for very large solar farm.
it may be a ransom situation as we are bounded by a stream and railway.

I need to gather more info. ty

Ideally, find a firm of land agents who specialise in wayleaves. Minimally, deal with a large firm who will have specialists on their team. Take lots of photographs and charge for everything!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Definitely don't undersell.

Plans for a 56 acre solar farm have recently been refused near here. The landowner was due to get c£62k per annum, index linked, for 25 years if it had gone ahead.

A neighbouring landowner was going to get a sizeable sum for allowing ducting to cross his land (but sorry, haven't got a figure).

 

[Orangehorse]

We have a large pipe draining (cleanish) water from a housing estate across the road, Isuppose it is a 200 yards or so across our fied.

We got a Land Agent to negotiate and all our costs were paid and the land was reinstated and reseeded and has grown back over, but we didn't get a lot of money out of it. By not a lot of money I mean it wasn't anywhere near enough to buy a new car!

 

[RunToEarth]

it is a bit `out of the blue` at the moment.
ducting for very large solar farm.
it may be a ransom situation as we are bounded by a stream and railway.

I need to gather more info. ty

A lot. Solar farms are completely at the mercy of grid connection so in theory you appear to be the missing link between a field of solar panels and the grid connection which makes them worth anything. How many acres is the solar park, how wide is the proposed working width of the duct and how many metres of your field are they proposing the run through?

 

[WelshD]

In various forums online and Facebook I have seen people plan to negotiate maneges, hard standing and land drains in to things like this (subject to any planning of course) the 'value' of those to them being better than the actual money and of lesser cost to the contractors who have all the machines and manpower

Doesn't answer your question but maybe food for thought

 

[Cahill]

about 178 meters and been told minimal disruption.
the solar park is to be very big and need to be joined to the grid.

 

[popsdosh]

about 178 meters and been told minimal disruption.
the solar park is to be very big and need to be joined to the grid.

You wont get a lot as at the end of the day you wont be able to stop them. There is very little you can do as they will go down the compulsory route in which case you most likely will end up with less. You cannot legally stand in the way of the development.
They will however reinstate and compensate you for this disturbance.
Land Agent is the best route rather than asking on here. Thy tend to work on standard figures which most likely what you have already been offered. Dont forget also it may effect the value of your land because you will signing to allow them access at any time they may need to maintain the ducting. That is most likely to be never but you never know . We had 2.5kms across the farm last year thats had to be dug up twice so far but thats a very unusual occurence

 

[Bestdogdash]

You wont get a lot as at the end of the day you wont be able to stop them. There is very little you can do as they will go down the compulsory route in which case you most likely will end up with less. You cannot legally stand in the way of the development.
They will however reinstate and compensate you for this disturbance.
Land Agent is the best route rather than asking on here. Thy tend to work on standard figures which most likely what you have already been offered. Dont forget also it may effect the value of your land because you will signing to allow them access at any time they may need to maintain the ducting. That is most likely to be never but you never know . We had 2.5kms across the farm last year thats had to be dug up twice so far but thats a very unusual occurence

This is not actually correct for your circumstance. Firstly, even if your land is subject to a CPO, it will take a minimum of 18 months to go through and time is money to a developer and always to be avoided by them if possible because there is no certainty attached to the result. Secondly even if the council agree to a CPO, if your land is the only route, they have to pay full market value - in this case sounds like the only option - and ransom strip value is percribed by law (Stokes v Cambridge) as 33%. Finally, agree with poster that you should have someone negotiate for you, but a land agent is probably not the right route. I would recommend a development specalist in solar farms - one of the larger agents (JLL, CBRE, DTZ, Cushman and Wakefield - google for a specalist) will have one. Mkae sure the other side agree to pay the fees as they will be expensive. If it were me, I wopuld ask what the expected income is. If it were (for the sake of easy maths) £100k per annum, on a 25 year deal with the 'purchaser' of the resultant power I personally would ask for a capital sum of £75k or an annual 'rent' of £5k for as long as it is income producing. For the size of the solar farm you describe, I would expect the income to be more than £100k to be honest. If I were the developer, I would probably agree to the capital sum. In the greater scheme of things, it is a small amount.

I speak as a FRICS and one of those nasty property developers - been there, done that, got the ticket !

NB - editied to say that £5k per annum long term income from a good covanent, can have a good NIY applied (5%?) and sold on the open market - value in rough terms 5 x 20 = £100k

 

[popsdosh]

You are totally barking up the wrong tree there.
It part of a scheme going onto the national grid so the procedure is exactly the same as if a power company wanted to put UGC or poles across your land you wont be able to stop them.You just get compensated for the disturbance and an annual payment which will be modest. Whatever you are lead to believe it wont be the goldrush for you I am afraid .
We get less than the amount mentioned for 2.5km of ducting negotiated by an expert in that area.

Most of the land agents will have very good experts in this field. The main reason I would not go to specialist in solar park development is because they mostly work for the developers so have in interest in keeping values down. Like I say people on here cant really advise you so go and see a land agent and find out really where you stand the company will pay your cost. From experience the sum they will have offered will be not far from where you end up! They will have made the offer knowing time is critical to them.

 

[Cahill]

thank you all for your comments.

(the ironic thing is-this mega energy thing going on and I live a short way away at cold comfort farm with just a wood burner lol )

 

[jrp204]

Get advice, we were approached by a mobile phone mast company, part of this government scheme to improve coverage in rural areas. The original rental offered was £1500/yr. Our land agent has negotiated the largest rental (which is still not massive but a hell of a lot better) they will have paid out for the scheme plus a one of payment of 1k to fence the field. Our expenses have been totally covered, for the land agent and solicitor.

 

[popsdosh]

thank you all for your comments.

(the ironic thing is-this mega energy thing going on and I live a short way away at cold comfort farm with just a wood burner lol )

Mention that to your land agent as we did manage to negotiate cheap power for the farm for the length of the contract which was very attractive.

 

[Bestdogdash]

You are totally barking up the wrong tree there.
It part of a scheme going onto the national grid so the procedure is exactly the same as if a power company wanted to put UGC or poles across your land you wont be able to stop them.You just get compensated for the disturbance and an annual payment which will be modest. Whatever you are lead to believe it wont be the goldrush for you I am afraid .
We get less than the amount mentioned for 2.5km of ducting negotiated by an expert in that area.

Most of the land agents will have very good experts in this field. The main reason I would not go to specialist in solar park development is because they mostly work for the developers so have in interest in keeping values down. Like I say people on here cant really advise you so go and see a land agent and find out really where you stand the company will pay your cost. From experience the sum they will have offered will be not far from where you end up! They will have made the offer knowing time is critical to them.

You were done !

Also it is precisely because the solar park specialists act (mostly) for developers that they are the people to appoint. They will know exactly what the profit margins are and what OP should fairly expect. If OP appoints them, then they will act only in the interest of the OP. To suggest that a qualified chartered surveyor, in any speciality would do otherwise is offensive to the profession, just as a crooked lawyer would be to the law society. If you have experience of this, then I would report them immediately to the RICS and they will be kicked out. Land agents are not trained in this - they are on the whole specialists in agricultural matters. This, by any measure, is commerical development.

 

[popsdosh]

You were done !

Also it is precisely because the solar park specialists act (mostly) for developers that they are the people to appoint. They will know exactly what the profit margins are and what OP should fairly expect. If OP appoints them, then they will act only in the interest of the OP. To suggest that a qualified chartered surveyor, in any speciality would do otherwise is offensive to the profession, just as a crooked lawyer would be to the law society. If you have experience of this, then I would report them immediately to the RICS and they will be kicked out. Land agents are not trained in this - they are on the whole specialists in agricultural matters. This, by any measure, is commerical development.

Get your facts right it comes under the land compensation act which gives them statutory powers and there are general levels agreed by for example the CLA and NFU and the power companies. We actually got a very good deal having spoken to several others.
I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land and leading the OP into believing its going to be a bonanza when it wont be! It obviously is not your speciality and to suggest that land agents cannot deal with it is a joke try telling S&P ,savills etc they dont know anything about it ,how long do you think they would last if they were not able to competently deal with these matters for their rural clients
You keep saying its commercial its not its an easement to lay a duct under a piece of land which you cannot stand in the way of under the electricity act! Profit margins have no relevance as the requirements are set out in the Land compensation act are you familiar with this!! Heres a web page that may help you understand.

http://www.cla.org.uk/rural-policy-.../telecommunications/rural-broadband/wayleaves.

The solar park developers have to install the ducting but once finished it is adopted by national grid who then control the infrastructure from the solar park.

I want the OP to get the best deal they can but please dont get their expectations to high! like I say their initial offer will not have been far off the mark as time is important to them however that is the only influence you have over the project and at the end of the day all the power company needs is the signature from the secretary of state to go ahead it is nothing like a CPO.

 

[popsdosh]

Here you are OP I am not sure how these compare to the offer they have made as it is not current ,however I am sure it wont be a long way.

http://www.hinkleyconnection.co.uk/assets/downloads/Payments_Schedule_Land_Strategy_June_2012.pdf

It gives you a starting point and obviously there is an incentive to agree which is built into the payments. See an agent ASAP to put your mind at rest

 

[RunToEarth]

You were done !

Also it is precisely because the solar park specialists act (mostly) for developers that they are the people to appoint. They will know exactly what the profit margins are and what OP should fairly expect. If OP appoints them, then they will act only in the interest of the OP. To suggest that a qualified chartered surveyor, in any speciality would do otherwise is offensive to the profession, just as a crooked lawyer would be to the law society. If you have experience of this, then I would report them immediately to the RICS and they will be kicked out. Land agents are not trained in this - they are on the whole specialists in agricultural matters. This, by any measure, is commerical development.

Where do you practice?! The vast majority of renewable development takes place in the countryside - most larger land agency firms have their own renewable teams. I agree with Popdosh that going to a renewables specialist is a stupid idea. I'm guessing you are in commercial but plenty of qualified land agents are specialists in renewables...

OP - if you would like to PM me and let me know where you are in the country I may be able to put you in contact with someone who can help.

 

[paddy555]

don't forget also that you may lose some of the income/lump sum you receive to tax. You should be able to find out how much by asking the wind farm company/developer who will no doubt have HMRC's rulings on similar developements.

 

[popsdosh]

don't forget also that you may lose some of the income/lump sum you receive to tax. You should be able to find out how much by asking the wind farm company/developer who will no doubt have HMRC's rulings on similar developements.

It wont be a big issue in this case I am sure.

 

[RunToEarth]

It wont be a big issue in this case I am sure.

I'm not sure why you are so sure it will be minimal? Developers are not going to want to CPO and a lot of them rely on the fact that people don't know much about it as a quick scare.

If the duct is conveying necessary equipment to enable the site to connect to the grid, and the site developers don't want to wait for a CPO to take place, they will negotiate, that is what usually happens, and there will be a one off payment for that. You've quoted the NG previously, who do have a lot of clout with CPO, but a lot of solar farms are only connecting to the grid, they are not developed by NG, just wondering whether you're getting confused with wayleave payments perhaps?

 

[popsdosh]

I'm not sure why you are so sure it will be minimal? Developers are not going to want to CPO and a lot of them rely on the fact that people don't know much about it as a quick scare.

If the duct is conveying necessary equipment to enable the site to connect to the grid, and the site developers don't want to wait for a CPO to take place, they will negotiate, that is what usually happens, and there will be a one off payment for that. You've quoted the NG previously, who do have a lot of clout with CPO, but a lot of solar farms are only connecting to the grid, they are not developed by NG, just wondering whether you're getting confused with wayleave payments perhaps?

We have been through the process ! In our example and it seems to be common the developers are responsible for installing the infrastructure which is then adopted by the natinal grid once its operating bsaically from the meters to on grid. Wayleaves and easements are much the same( I do know the difference but one is just a longer term version with a lump sum upfront rather than annual payments) when power companies are involved but they tend to prefer easements when UG ducting is involved so a one off payment which by convention is usually the width they require xlenghth paid at 80% of open market value because the land owner still owns the land and still has use of it for cropping etc. There is no land purchase involved. Whatever power company is involved they use the same mechanisms as NG.
Anyway I am sure once they see the right person they will get the answers they want!

 

[RunToEarth]

We have been through the process ! In our example and it seems to be common the developers are responsible for installing the infrastructure which is then adopted by the natinal grid once its operating bsaically from the meters to on grid. Wayleaves and easements are much the same( I do know the difference but one is just a longer term version with a lump sum upfront rather than annual payments) when power companies are involved but they tend to prefer easements when UG ducting is involved so a one off payment which by convention is usually the width they require xlenghth paid at 80% of open market value because the land owner still owns the land and still has use of it for cropping etc. There is no land purchase involved. Whatever power company is involved they use the same mechanisms as NG.
Anyway I am sure once they see the right person they will get the answers they want!

I'm a land agent, dealing with several at the moment and there certainly is no hard and fast pittance paid for easements of this kind. Incidentally, wayleaves and easements are very different in terms of their permanency and their payment structure and definitely not treated the same in this case. Like I say OP, happy to help if you want to PM me.