Central calcus thrush

Birker2020

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My fantastic y.o of the retirement yard where Lari is has contacted me to say the farrier has seen to Lari and has discovered deep thrush in his central salcus. He had looked at him last week and said he has very thin soles from the constant wet environment.

Between her and the farrier they have disinfected it and put clay in there and she's advised this will need to be done daily.

We now suspect this is what has made him lame. I consulted over the phone with the vet last week and arranged xrays of his foot and leg again where it was kicked previously as we're not entirely sure where the lameness stems from. Xrays are for this afternoon just to make sure there's nothing else going on there. Vet advised in the meantime two bute a day which he was having in his breakfast until this morning.

Perhaps it's a bit of an overkill having xrays but I have been toying with the idea for the past few weeks of bringing him back 'home' to the yard where my stable is held, for good this time. I don't think he's coping with life in retirement and the fact it's so wet all the time and he's living out 24/7 isn't helping as his feet never have the chance to dry out. If the xrays show what they showed in Baileys foot then we've reached the end of the road and he will be pts and we know we've done everything we could have done.

My partners keen for me to wait until the spring to see if he picks up before we consider bringing him home as we had many wet weather issues last year with abscesses, mud fever, rain scald and weight loss, ripped rugs, a nasty kick but as soon as the weather got better and the sun came up and the fields dried up he recovered really well. It was really bad heavy rain if you remember and the river burst it banks so horses were on very wet grazing in places. Trouble is every winter I will have this problem so leaving him there doesn't help long term.

If he comes back 'home' that will be it. No more retirement. I feel he'd cope better resting on a nice shavings bed at night, keratex on his soles to harden them, having a one to one contact as before. Plenty of hay and low starch/sugar feed, and minimal mud (without 23 horses passing through his field churning it up) like at retirement as although theres a hundred acres with most of it dry, inevitably they wait in the mud to come in to the hardstanding and hay feeders at night. And Lari often takes himself to a particularly marshy area of the field to have a munch on the nice grass there and a good roll.

I don't think he'd miss it, retirement, if I'm honest he'd thrive like he did when I looked after him for the first18 months before he went to retirement.

And being honest, I'd also welcome having a horse to look after again. My life is very mundane and empty in the evenings after work. I still plan buying another horse when a stable becomes available and can afford and have the time for two, but everything I've seen for sale is lame or has issues. I am riding something once a week so won't feel like I did last time either. I need to save as well as I've been eating into my savings and it will take the pressure off me. Eventually I'd like to aim for him and a new one turned out together.

Please no nasty comments.

I'm still having the xrays as they're paid up front for. Would you leave till the spring and assess and let him have a long last summer there before bringing home or bring home now if xrays ok?
 
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Honestly, B, not many horses 'thrive' the way we expect when wintering out in a permanent herd after a lifetime of stabling, food, and 1:2:1 care. They look scraggy, motheaten, their muscles sag where they haven't been used, and they look a bit meh. In my experience, this is for the first couple of winters. Then they get into the swing of things. They are, after all, reverting to their natural state of being, living off their fat reserves they build up in the spring and summer.

With regards to their feet - yes, that's where we let them down because we put shoes on them from a young age and they simply don't have the opportunity to build sole or horn or grow hooves to suit their conformation and then yes, when we try to turn them back into 'nature's intended', they suffer. For a while. Most will get over it.

If I were you? And you did ask for opinions, just wait. Stick those frogs full of iodine - it will also help to harden his feet - and wait. In two months you won't be looking at the horse that's in front of you now.
 
For what it's worth I think it's a great idea. It may even work out less expensive if you added all the extra expenses for health issues etc and you're already paying for the stable anyhow. Depending on the x ray results I'd bring him home now. It's only Feb - still time for more rubbish weather. Also I think it will lessen the worry for you as you know he's safe as it were and hopefully more out of harms way.
Good luck with whatever you decide x
 
I would bring him home too. From what you’ve said it doesn’t seem to suit him in the winter where he is now, and you obviously miss him and are unhappy too. He probably will pick up in the spring but it seems quite likely that you’ll have the same problems next winter and then you’ll both be unhappy again. You’ve tried the retirement option and it’s not worked out and now there’s nothing at all wrong with bringing him home and giving him a good pamper. Nobody else’s opinion matters, do what you think is best for him and you.

For what it’s worth I have a retired horse and a ridden one. The retired one lives out but with access to a stable for a dry, and he’s on the same yard as my ridden one. I would hate it if they were at different yards and I couldn’t see him everyday and I love just giving him a fuss and generally faffing with him. I think you’re the same and will find it so much easier having Lari and your new one on the same yard when you do get your new one.
 
Honestly, B, not many horses 'thrive' the way we expect when wintering out in a permanent herd after a lifetime of stabling, food, and 1:2:1 care. They look scraggy, motheaten, their muscles sag where they haven't been used, and they look a bit meh. In my experience, this is for the first couple of winters. Then they get into the swing of things. They are, after all, reverting to their natural state of being, living off their fat reserves they build up in the spring and summer.

With regards to their feet - yes, that's where we let them down because we put shoes on them from a young age and they simply don't have the opportunity to build sole or horn or grow hooves to suit their conformation and then yes, when we try to turn them back into 'nature's intended', they suffer. For a while. Most will get over it.

If I were you? And you did ask for opinions, just wait. Stick those frogs full of iodine - it will also help to harden his feet - and wait. In two months you won't be looking at the horse that's in front of you now.

Hey thanks for your reply.

I'd happily put lots of work into him but sadly we're some 35 miles away from the retirement place so we can't see him every day. As it is we visit him two days a week which is an effort due to the distance/time/cost involved.

I totally get where you're coming from with the iodine but unless he's having a few hours off the mud/wet once the iodines been applied, there's no point as he'd have to go straight back out again into it, defeating the purpose.

Obviously if he came home to me I could pick out his feet (which doesn't happen at retirement) and hose and thoroughly dry them and iodine them and then he could into his stable when they are dry and overnight it would get to work.
 
I can't multi quite because my phone is 'pants' but thank you everyone.

I'm sure I'm making the right decision.

We used to think he was very close to his one friend but then we saw him (his friend) kick out at him quite nastily and so I don't feel guilty at all bringing him home.

He always seems to be in the centre of any drama, he's always the one pulling on rugs and ripping them and as a consequence having his rugs pulled apart too.

Y.o thinks he acts tough and likes to be 'one of the boys' but doesn't really understand the implications of being such a jack the lad! She feels he's had a terrible run of bad luck and feels for me too as she knows its not the retirement I was hoping for him.

I am so excited about bringing him home it's all I've thought about lately. I can't wait.

As for money, he's costing around £365 a month plus all the vets bills and rug repairs. I think I can do it for about £50 less and save on ripped rugs and vet bills and travel too. Yard staff can turn out in morning and soon with the advent of warmer weather he cal live out at night and in during the day.

I really like the yard in terms of acreage and routine and in the spring and summer with a little wood, stream and vast areas to walk around it is a wonderful place butbin winter it's hell. I also have to stress how unbelievably fantastic the y.o has been looking after him and caring for him throughout all this!.

Thank you for all your replies. Most grateful.
 
Getting him onto dryer ground, and bringing in at night, can only help. And then you can assess each hoof to check where he is weight bearing and where he isn't. Your farrier/trimmer can work with you to bring his feet into balance, and take it from there. If he is comfortable to walk in hand it might be a good plan all round. Hope the x-rays are not a picture of doom and gloom.
 
Getting him onto dryer ground, and bringing in at night, can only help. And then you can assess each hoof to check where he is weight bearing and where he isn't. Your farrier/trimmer can work with you to bring his feet into balance, and take it from there. If he is comfortable to walk in hand it might be a good plan all round. Hope the x-rays are not a picture of doom and gloom.
Thanks. So do I!

When he's sound I'd love to potter about with him. I can't lunge him now because although it's healed and you'd never know he had a bad DDFT/SDFT injury when he first went to retirement (his 11th day!) which responded well to me rehabbing him back 'home'. That was April 23 when I took two months from work to rehab him!

He's galloped about on it and done fly bucks, etc since then and been pulling his leg through the endless mud without issue and it's been fine but I'd never lunge again.

But I can do walking over poles and carrot stretches and he can have his back massager on and a spa session with a nice hot bath, he's not had a bath since Sept 2022!! Going to spoil him rotten.
 
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I'd bring him home. This winter has been awful and Lari has a lot going on. I think it will help you both if you get to spend more time with him, and give his feet a break from the mud, this year has been the worst I've ever experienced. It sounds like he needs a bit more personalised care than the retirement home can easily provide.
 
I think Lari coming home will do you both good, whatever happens next. I loved having Jay in retirement, he was a friendly face and got me out there.

I would lay easy with any plans and just see how things in other areas of your life work out, while having your livery yard there as support.

I'm happy for you both.
 
i think you’re making the right decision for both of you by bringing him home.

the way i think of it, horses don’t understand the concept of “it’ll be easier in summer”… as of right now, i imagine he’d be happier back home, and that’s all that matters in his head! he’s not going to think “god mum, i wish you’d left me there for one last summer”😂

bring your boy home and enjoy him!! maybe you could even ride & lead once you find your next mount🥰
 
Based on the issues he’s had in retirement during the winter, I’d bring him home as soon as you can. I think the extra care and attention will do him the world of good, and it sounds like it will benefit you as well!

ETA I’m all for retired horses being out 24/7 with minimal intervention, which is what I did with my late mare and gelding. But it doesn't always work out as we want it too.
 
Bit of an update.

My train was late so we didn't get to the yard till 30 mins before get appointment and Lari was half a mile away. The herd then decided to gallop past, Lari in tow. The mud was horrendous, like the consistency of thick soup and about 8 inches deep, nearly fell over 3 times! Away from the gateways and main track it wasn't too bad, but the gateway was extremely hard to walk through and stay upright!

Vet took numerous xrays. Can't find anything of significance. Xrayed fetlock then found a chip. Vet rang orthopedic specialist at practice who said of no clinical significance.

Lari was nerve blocked to the foot and was completely and utterly sound, even turning on a tight circle whereas 30 mins before absolutely hobbling on a circle. Was very astonished could say with 100% certainty it was the foot, no doubt.

Vet dug a bit of sole but couldn't find anything of any significance but poulticed anyway. Poultice for two to three days, xrays showed sole not as thin as first thought. Haven't ruled out salcus but no reaction from vet with palpating or pincers on foot.

No rotation of pedal bone, coffin joint looking well and vascular something or other as completely normal. Slight bony spur on coffin joint but of no clinical significance. No DDFT involvement. Vet has given all clear to travel whenever, feels it will be better for him away from the yard. She says he's no where near the time where a decision needs to be made with him yet re euthanasia, says he has plenty of spark and years left in him yet.

Have got the weekend to madly flap about getting organised with hay, food, bed and rugs all single handedly as partner limping around with a stick following knee replacement and boy coming home Tuesday or Wednesday evening as my super y.o collecting him! 😆😆

Super excited. So grateful to the lovely vet and her assistant who were with us for 90 minutes.
 

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Great news sounds like you have a plan. How do you feel about it all?
Ecstatic.

Grateful that the y.o at retirement has tried so long and hard with him as has gone above and beyind trying to reintegrate him into the herd initially and after his period of rehab back home. Grateful that my friends and partner think he's worth 'saving' for want of a better word.

Grateful that my yard owner at 'home' is so willing to have him back and is happy to collect him in her lorry.

Grateful to the vet for her hard work last night.

And just very very relieved.
 
Has he been checked for Cushings?

Hi HMC, Sorry we were food shopping, just sat in Morrisons cafe now having a rest.

It had been suggested on the forum that he may have had EMS about 2 yrs ago now, so he was tested. Can't remember the exact result now but it was well below the cut off if that makes sense which was good.

No he's not been tested for cushings but as I remember he's never had an abscess from Oct 2021 to April 2023 with me and he had his first winter 2023/24. He's had issues with his feet with me insomuch as he had a large crack in the inside of the off fore from what the farrier said was a very bad over reach approx a year before i had him. I don't know how he was so specific about this, i assume he could tell from horn growth.

He's holding his weight well now he's being better rugged this winter (which was my fault as i thought he'd be too hot as he has a history of rug ripping) and is on a better feed. He flew through shoe removal prior to retirement/blood bank (I couldn't part with him hence no blood bank) but admittedly did become footy thrre months later although I was assured by people more knowledgeable than me that shoe removal tends to have a delay in 'catch up' if that makes sense.

He looses his coat quickly come the spring too. He had a lovely silky smooth coat with me when I was brushing him daily.

I have spoken to both the vet and the farrier about the possibility of cushings and both feel it's extreme unlikely he has this.
 
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I have spoken to both the vet and the farrier about the possibility of cushings and both feel it's extreme unlikely he has Cushings.


There's no harm in testing and he's now had two symptoms recently, slow healing of an infected wound and foot abscesses.

From stuff people write on the forum, vets are strangely reluctant to test, when testing is harmless.

If he does have it, you really don't want a laminitis episode when the spring grass comes through before you find out.
.
 
Well I've had the vets bill for Friday, £512.
Nearly fell off my chair.

That's over £1500 I've paid out for him since Christmas. That's it now.

I'm disputing the bill, surely a few xrays and a nerve block shouldn't cost this much?

I was told three xrays max to xray the foot and the fetlock was 'non chargeable' and would be ' just out of interest' by the vet.
 
I’ve retired most of mine at home and have enjoyed it. It’s nice having them around and spending time with them. They get treated just as the ridden ones do, apart from the being ridden bit.

I tried retiring one out full time and I hated it and he did too. Ended up bringing him home as proper winter hadn’t even hit and he dropped a lot of weight and just stood cribbing by the fence all day.
 
Well I've had the vets bill for Friday, £512.
Nearly fell off my chair.

That's over £1500 I've paid out for him since Christmas. That's it now.

I'm disputing the bill, surely a few xrays and a nerve block shouldn't cost this much?

I was told three xrays max to xray the foot and the fetlock was 'non chargeable' and would be ' just out of interest' by the vet.
Sounds about right price-wise for that, TBF.

By non-chargeable, are you saying that the vet had said they would do them for free for some reason? I can't see that a vet would be that interested to fund X rays themselves? I wonder if there was simply a mis-communication?
 
Sounds about right price-wise for that, TBF.

By non-chargeable, are you saying that the vet had said they would do them for free for some reason? I can't see that a vet would be that interested to fund X rays themselves? I wonder if there was simply a mis-communication?
No when he got kicked she scanned his leg for free as she said she had a personal interest, said it like "I won't charge you for this, as I'm just interested for myself".

When I asked how many x-rays this time round it would take for the foot I said "a couple will do it, won't it?" And she said "yes, two or three". She's sent me 13 images over by email today!

At the time she said " I think we'll xray the fetlock but I won't charge you for those as I'm just interested".

Someone who knows me and Lari's 'back story' for want of a better word did indicate at the time that the vets sympathised with my 'plight' because I had kept him in retirement which a lot of people missold a horse wouldn't have done.

Before I get told I am having a 'pity party' by someone unkind on a previous thread (which was not the case at all 🙄) I'm just telling you what was said at the time, not because I feel like I'm a saint, or a rescuer, or an angel or even a philanthropist or anything else. I'm just me.......🙄

I'm not one that normally disputes vets bills but I've asked for it itemised.

To be fair she's a lovely hard working person who went out of her way for me and spent 1.5hrs but my gripe is more with the 10 additional xrays and the charging policy of the practice.
 
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