Definitely NOT Another Barefoot Thread! ;)

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Patterdale

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Need some recommendations...

Have had my tbs shoes taken off last week. I'm not riding him cause I'm preggo and haven't been able to find anyone suitable to loan him.

He had to go 9weeks (!) before the farrier could get here, as he had to go away and cancelled on me at 6 weeks. No ones fault, just one of those things.

However this meant that 3 shoes came off before the farrier got here, and he took a fair bit if hoof off one of the fronts. Not lame but farrier said he couldn't nail to it, so decided just to get them tidied up and leave him shoeless for a while for them the grow (something I try to do at least once a year anyway).

My problem is that his feet have started cracking a bit. He has four socks and therefore yellow hooves and although he hasn't got bad feet, it has been quite dry here.

SO - I can't put shoes back on so I'm going to get him some hoof moistener stuff. I've never used it before because im an 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' type person and never had cracking hooves.

Recommendations please!? Have heard Kevin Bacon is quite good - what do you all use?

Cake and Ice Cream for anyone who got this far! :D
 
Cracks are caused by poor quality hoof, poor balance or too long. Or all three. Healthy balanced feet do not crack (even in dry conditions) Putting stuff on them is an expensive waste of money. Much cheaper sorting out the cause rather than treating the symptoms. So diet/supplement and trimming.

If you really want to put stuff on them, soak them in water for half an hour, dry the surface and paint with an oil to keep moisture in.
 
P.s white feet are no softer. Otherwise stripy feet would end up crenalated! Last horse used to have balance issues and cracking on his left fore, rest were perfect. His only black foot.
 
Thanks - they've cracked because his shoes had come off, taken some off the hoof with them, and he was then going about for 2 weeks on long hooves with chunks out.
Very annoying but nothing I could do - I live in a very remote area and there is only one farrier :(

Have heard good things about some products sonwant to keep an open mind and see what peoples experiences are :)
 
Can you post pics of the hooves?

Slapping lotion on will only achieve clogging up the wall and trapping bacteria.

If they are cracking it is because;

They are too long and the horse is trying to trim some off.

The diet needs looking at.

Water is the only moisturiser recommended - and they get plenty of that in the UK without any help from us.
 
Just a thought, have you seen the 'rider rasp' it might be handy for tidying the edges between farrier visits.
 
They cracked because they were far too long, and now that the cracks are there the hoof isn't as strong so the cracks are getting slightly longer.

He's in very good condition in every other way.

I hadn't thought of using water. No offence but you think of water as being 'drying' on your skin etc! Does it work? And what type of oil dj you out in after? I'm thinking veg/soya rather than the dreaded hoof oil??
:)
 
hehe you're going to get told it's all about his diet whether you like it or not, and the fact that the shoe pulled half his hoof off just adds fuel to the fire:p;) evil hoof harming shoes;)
I've been recommended Effol by a farrier before now, quite amusing as i thought he was saying 'eff all' :D:D
 
OK, well, buy a rasp from Dave Wilson, double ended is quite good, round off the edges as much as you can. You will find it quite easy once you are a bit more confident.
Try micronised linseed meal, non molassed sugar beet or Fast Fibre and and Equimins Hoof mender supplement.
 
If it's not a barefoot thread, just shoe, problem solved. :p

I agree, lotions and potions just clog the hoof. A hoof needs to 'breathe'. If the hooves are cracking because they are too long, get them trimmed more frequently. :) Dare I suggest a bevel/roll is put on the base of the hoof wall to resist cracking?
 
Thanks ibblebibble!! ;)

It's definitely not his diet - he eats 100% Dr Greens Finest and has done for a long time now!

Thanks for the rasp ideas bit the farrier has been and tidied them up, it was just a one off with him not being able to come.

Has anyone tried Kevin Bacon?
 
Not being funny but what's the point of writing an OP if no one reads it!? :D

I CAN'T put shoes back on yet as he's lost too much of the hoof!

I can't believe that moisteners do nothing. If you have cracked hands/nails etc you put cream on, not water as this dries it out more?? I don't understand the anti - lotion stance for this reason. Can someone give me the reasoning behind it?
 
So its cracked because he has lost shoes and his feet were long, and the farrier has now tidied them up?

To be honest it sounds natural, and not as a result of lack of moisture, and what would happen in the wild if a horse was left to its own devices. If you are worried about abcesses you might want to consider disinfecting the hoof, but that's its own kettle of fish.

You do seem rather intent on using Kevin Bacon though, so go for it :p

ETA regarding lotion - well, some people are saying that horses' hooves aren't the same stuff as your hands ;) sorry, couldn't resist! Most farriers and vets say it does nothing to improve horn quality anyway, a bit like applying conditioner to your hair won't improve split ends, just make it feel like it it improved until you wash it again. Applying a hoof moisturiser to your horses hoof is perhaps a bit of a placebo effect for you, with the added downside that foot in mud a lot = grit, debris and bacteria on surface of hoof + barrier over the top of that is going to = trouble.

When you apply a moisturiser to your hands you are trying to stop extra moisture from within your skin from escaping - hence why its particularly effective after a bath. Same principal for hooves, I would imagine.
 
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I really don't want to get into a grass debate here......he eats grass, as he was designed to do and as his ancestors have for thousands of years. He is in excellent condition and the cracks in his hooves are caused by trauma/shoes being pulled off rather than a poor diet/poor condition.
 
patterdale said:
Not being funny but what's the point of writing an OP if no one reads it!? :D

I CAN'T put shoes back on yet as he's lost too much of the hoof!

I can't believe that moisteners do nothing. If you have cracked hands/nails etc you put cream on, not water as this dries it out more?? I don't understand the anti - lotion stance for this reason. Can someone give me the reasoning behind it?
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I am no expert on lotions, my own farrier [world class] says they are all a waste of money, feeding is the key. You will find your own hair and nails are dead, so plastering on lotions will not do a lot of good if your diet is poor. Horses out on grass will get quite a lot of moisture if the grass is long enough to hold the morning dew, do what you feel happy with, but you did say, if it ain't broke don't fix it, BUT it is broke!
 
patterdale said:
I really don't want to get into a grass debate here......he eats grass, as he was designed to do and as his ancestors have for thousands of years. He is in excellent condition and the cracks in his hooves are caused by trauma/shoes being pulled off rather than a poor diet/poor condition.
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No. His ancestors roamed the Steppes and prairies covering 30 miles per day and grazing on scrub and whatever they could find, a long way from the grass fields that we put them on nowadays.
 
They're cracking because they're too long? Trim them! If it's even cracking all the way round it's unlikely to be a balance issue: that causes one or two big cracks, usually in the quarters. Flared feet crack badly and that definitely is a diet issue (in shod and unshod feet)

It's prob mostly cosmetic so a quick trim will help. Shod feet are often far too long and the short length they wear them to barefoot can be scary!

Slapping stuff on won't really help other than water (or try cheap aqueous cream). You can't make the hoof stronger by painting stuff on.

If they're cracking because they're weak then cream won't help at all, only diet. Too much yummy lush green grass isn't good for the feet (like haribo for horses: they're DESIGNED to eat boring woody rough grass: rivita for horses;)) and it usually lacks the right balance of vits and minerals. Maybe try a supplement designed for barefoot horses to give him everything he needs?
 
patterdale said:
Not intent on it, just heard it mentioned a lot, but as it's pricey just wanted to see if anyone had any experiences of it :)
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:D I think its a resounding no :D

Miss L Toe said:
No. His ancestors roamed the Steppes and prairies covering 30 miles per day and grazing on scrub and whatever they could find, a long way from the grass fields that we put them on nowadays.
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Ditto :p

I know Patterdale doesn't want to get into the grass debate, but I'm sorry you DID rather invite this response ;)

Sorry.. I'll go now..!
 
So grass is not an ideal source of fibre for a horse? No offence but...doesn't make sense to me.

Lol @ hoof not being same as hands! ;) I do know this, just using an example for water having a drying effect?

Think i am going to have to just keep an eye on it and hope with the spring grass they get growing nice and fast! Then get them trimmed up again a couple of times and shoes back on when I can.

Note to self - NEVER put 'barefoot' in title again! ;) :D
 
Its nothing to do with barefoot in title, it is to do with your approach to the problem.
You decided that a lotion would do the job, but others disagreed, so they were not willing to recommend a lotion as a solution to the problem.
Go in to the barn and take a chew on some hay, it is fibrous, dry and not easy to swallow.
.... tough and dry,,,,,,,,high in fibre.
Now go in to a farmers field and pick some nice ryegrass, chew it, sweet and not fibrous, ie low in fibre, high in sugars, easy to swallow.
To grow good hooves the horse needs fibre and minerals. Sweet spring grass is much more likely to cause problems like laminitis than the summer grass which is less green and slow growing. In the autumn, the grass has another spurt of growth, it is full of sugars, and we get more laminitis again.
I do not think that spring grass will encourage hoof growth, I find hooves grow at different rates throughout the year, but it is difficult to predict: for that reason, and others, I feed Fast Fibre throughout the year, ........ it ain't broke, because I fixed it rather than wait four to six months for a hoof to grow from coronet band to the ground.
 
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patterdale said:
So grass is not an ideal source of fibre for a horse? No offence but...doesn't make sense to me.

Lol @ hoof not being same as hands! ;) I do know this, just using an example for water having a drying effect?

Think i am going to have to just keep an eye on it and hope with the spring grass they get growing nice and fast! Then get them trimmed up again a couple of times and shoes back on when I can.

Note to self - NEVER put 'barefoot' in title again! ;) :D
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*runs back and clears throat*

There's grass and there's grass. Heck, there's something like 117 different species of grass in the UK alone.

Grass type 1) Mostly horse paddocks are Perennial Rye Grass, maybe some Timothy and a couple of other common ones because it grows well, is resistant to trampling and looks nice and green. Most horse paddocks are fertilised and soil improved with lime etc.

Our horses have evolved to eat a huge variety of different grasses, and other plants and herbs, grown over huge acreages of varying soil types, altitudes and drainage. Far more bredth of species than found in your average horse paddock, and much lower in sugar, with much higher variety of mineral content (oweing to the different soil and grass types).

In evolutionary terms fertilisation and mainipulation of grass species has occured far to recently for the horse to have been able to evolve to it - they (mostly) tolerate it well, but when there is a problem with the hoof (which I agree with you by the way does not sound as if it is diet related in your case!) then working out which minerals are out of balance and how much starch is going in, can have its place in solving it.

Now... can you see that not all grass is equal?

(sorry again, I'm in a funny mood... no harm is intended, just on my high rocking horse! ;))
 
Eh, no, rich green grass is NOT an ideal feed for horses?!? As Clava said, you only need to look at the number of laminitic's to see that.

What do you think wild horses eat or evolved eating? There were no farmers. No fertilised dairy grass. No single strain monopastures. They eat rough long mixed grass with shrubs and herbs. And even today wild ponies come down with lami when they break into managed pastures.

Rich green grass makes them fat (and gassy) but all that sugar stresses the liver and kidneys and shows in their feet.
 
No offence taken Naturally.

Miss L Toe - I was not 'intent on lotion,' I just wanted to hear peoples experience of lotions.

Not be criticised for feeding my horse grass.

Our grass is reseeded, analysed etc. We have different fields and areas with different mineral contents and nutritional values/protein levels.

Not all grasses suit all horses, but laminitis is really not an issue with my tb.

He is healthy, happy, and in fantastic condition. Therefore I will not be changing his diet. I did not ask for dietary advice as I do not need it ;)

As for grass not being a source of fibre that is not true I'm afraid. Just because something is 'dry' does not mean it has more fibre than something which has a higher water content.

This whole thread has gotten ridiculous. I only asked for peoples advice on lotions, not a lecture on why grass will slowly kill my horse.

Ps - to the person who suggested I get him trimmed - READ the Opening F-ing Post!!
 
patterdale said:
Not all grasses suit all horses, but laminitis is really not an issue with my tb.

He is healthy, happy, and in fantastic condition.
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He is not in fantastic condition, his feet are in a poor state. The issue of laminitis was raised to try to help you with your understanding of feeding, nutrition and hoof quality, but I see there is no hope.
 
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