defra consultation on transport of animals incl horses

[milliepops]

Can't see a thread on this, anyone else read the documents or commented?

it popped up on my FB via David Marlin who did a FB live unpacking some of it.

there are a number of issues about lumping transport of horses in the same regulations as farm animals and it's kind of unclear who it will affect but as many of us could come under the banner of economic activity relating to horses it has the potential to have a big impact if the rules go through as proposed...

a few little nuggets, not being able to transport horses outside temps between 5 and 30 degrees - personally i could get on board with an upper temp limit for routine transport but a lower limit of 5 degrees seems bonkers, given that horses are often rugged and therefore comfortable

and 20cm headroom for horses in vehicles....

consultation documents are in this post, hopefully some of the horse welfare orgs will mount a robust response.

https://www.facebook.com/DrDavidMarlin/posts/196023485462033

 

[Gingerwitch]

20cm is 0nly 8 inches in old money, so it would depend on what they are classing as head room is it from head at normal level or from tips of ears ?would have thought most boxes have 7 to 8 inches head space. The 5 degrees is bonkers, and what are you supposed to do if it does hit 30 and your away from home sit horse on box til the night?
All for animal welfare, so just shut the loop hole In live export of animals from Scotland and Ireland for slaughter and a lot more would be achieved.
Would this also extend to vet treatments to ?

I know piggies have to have access to water at all times, which makes the levels underneath an awful place to travel.

 

[Rowreach]

I'm thinking of all the times I transported wagon loads of hunters on winter mornings where the temperature was definitely below 5 degrees. I agree with many of the existing regulations regarding equine transport (I don't know a lot about other livestock even though I've got a qualification in it) and I do think there should be more regulation into the type and structure of trailers and horseboxes and things like headroom, partitioning, tack lockers impinging on horsespace, but I'm a bit concerned about the lower temperature restriction. The upper one does actually make sense, and I suppose if you have a fleet of transporters like the big firms do, then air conditioning should be a prerequisite of those builds.

 

[PapaverFollis]

5 degrees? Whaaaaa? It's hovering around 5 or 6 degrees here at the moment and honestly it feels warm to me! I wouldn't think twice about taking them out in the trailer today.

 

[milliepops]

20cm is 0nly 8 inches in old money, so it would depend on what they are classing as head room is it from head at normal level or from tips of ears ?would have thought most boxes have 7 to 8 inches head space. The 5 degrees is bonkers, and what are you supposed to do if it does hit 30 and your away from home sit horse on box til the night?
All for animal welfare, so just shut the loop hole In live export of animals from Scotland and Ireland for slaughter and a lot more would be achieved.
Would this also extend to vet treatments to ?

the consultation documents are all available which make some of this clear as mud, but my question was 20cm above what? resting head height for a relaxed horse is quite different to how they raise their heads in alarm or interest, that's the nature of having a long neck easier to have a parameter like that for an animal like a sheep.

 

[Equi]

I wonder if the lower temp is more to do with the likelihood of their being slippery roads? Under 5 would be completely bonkers for anything tho it would make the whole country grind to a halt for most of the winter.

 

[milliepops]

I wonder if the lower temp is more to do with the likelihood of their being slippery roads? Under 5 would be completely bonkers for anything tho it would make the whole country grind to a halt for most of the winter.

no there are requirements to keep the temperature in vehicles between 5 and 30 elsewhere in the documents! 5 degrees is still an unnecessary limit if you are a horse wearing a stable rug, might be necessary for a chick ...

 

[Goldenstar]

Five degrees is nothing to a horse .

 

[Rowreach]

At 5 degrees I’d be unlikely to rug a horse for travelling, particularly if it had company.

 

[milliepops]

At 5 degrees I’d be unlikely to rug a horse for travelling, particularly if it had company.

well, yeah, so a minimum of 5 degrees is unnecessary for a horse. it reads like they are trying to apply the same rules for all kinds of animals from day old chicks to lorry loads of cattle to horses.

 

[Gingerwitch]

well, yeah, so a minimum of 5 degrees is unnecessary for a horse. it reads like they are trying to apply the same rules for all kinds of animals from day old chicks to lorry loads of cattle to horses.

We were once asked to transport day old chicks.... They estimated 25 to 30,000.... And an unconfirmed source said more like 40 to 50,000 day old chicks would be packed in baskets. Simply awful if these numbers are any where near true.

 

[Rowreach]

When we were converting boxes we worked on 8’ floor to ceiling. I wonder if the headroom thing is to do with decked trucks as well.

 

[ester]

That was my assumption, it is there with double deckers in mind. But obviously horses do have necks, and we don't tend to use double deckers for them.

 

[Gingerwitch]

That was my assumption, it is there with double deckers in mind. But obviously horses do have necks, and we don't tend to use double deckers for them.

I just hope they don't start using uncovered topdecks to get round it. Was nearly killed one the a38 when a sheep jumped off one of these 20 years ago

 

[teapot]

Apparently there are already and have been temperature regulations in place for horse transport for years, and no one's abided by them so why start now?

They need to define economic purpose I feel.

 

[Rowreach]

It seems from rooting through my stuff on transportation of animals that the measurement of headroom for horses is take from the withers - so 20cm is beggar all and makes me wonder if they have taken any account of the anatomy of horses at all.

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s seems to me mad to prevent farmers moving stock in bad weather when it needs to be done for feeding or if it’s injured or to get them out of worse weather that’s coming .
The 5 degree thing is nuts anyway most larger animals are happy much lower than that .

 

[Rowreach]

Apparently there are already and have been temperature regulations in place for horse transport for years, and no one's abided by them so why start now?

They need to define economic purpose I feel.

It's ventilation and air flow that are covered, and those regs deal mainly with the commercial transportation of livestock. Commercial operators are meant to have a ventilation system that can operate independently of the engine/moving vehicle for several hours. So not just about opening and closing vents and knowing which end of the vehicle is going to be hotter/colder for the stock you are transporting, but being able to regulate it.

 

[teapot]

It's ventilation and air flow that are covered, and those regs deal mainly with the commercial transportation of livestock. Commercial operators are meant to have a ventilation system that can operate independently of the engine/moving vehicle for several hours. So not just about opening and closing vents and knowing which end of the vehicle is going to be hotter/colder for the stock you are transporting, but being able to regulate it.

You're not meant to transport horses under zero degrees already though, this new policy isn't new in all parts.

 

[milliepops]

i gather that the application to short journeys as well as long ones is a new thing though?

 

[PurBee]

I was going to ask if the 5 degree lower limit applies to just long journeys only?...where theyre standing in a transport box, not moving at all, for hours and hours.

But when flying horses, they’re in a box too and those cargo planes arent heated, are they?

 

[milliepops]

I believe air transport is temperature controlled.

eta this website states 17 degrees https://www.pedenbloodstock.com/int...perature is,comfort for the travelling horses.

 

[ycbm]

It seems from rooting through my stuff on transportation of animals that the measurement of headroom for horses is take from the withers - so 20cm is beggar all and makes me wonder if they have taken any account of the anatomy of horses at all.

???

 

[The Xmas Furry]

I believe air transport is temperature controlled.

eta this website states 17 degrees https://www.pedenbloodstock.com/international-horse-transport/air-transportation/#:~:text=AMBIENT TEMPERATURE -The temperature is,comfort for the travelling horses.

Yup. Even in the late 80s we had temp control and it was never too cold or hot flying the horses.
Unloading could be a shock to the system in some countries tho!