Degenerative myelopathy or disk problem. GSD

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SadKen

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My older GSD was 9 in October and he's had a couple of what I'd describe as 'wobbly moments' in the last couple of months. The first-time, his right hind leg crossed his left as he went out for a wee and he nearly fell. Two days later he did the same and did fall, but managed to get up and seemed fine immediately. There was no limping either before or after.

Took him off to the vet; as he hadn't done it since it wasn't easy to diagnose. He was slow to put his right hind foot straight when manually knuckled over. Vet thought possibly a degenerating disk in his spine, but DM is a possibility. He had gabapentin, rest then controlled exercise. He has arthritic hips but vet ruled that out as aI as cause.

After nothing for a couple of months he had another wobble after getting up from a sleep. Exactly the same as above, quick improvement, hasn't happened again.

There is no change to his stance or gait. I've noticed he's scratching a lot but not sure if it's related. He has a heart murmur so we can't put him out for x rays, and I don't think we would put him through an op for that reason. The vet said without a video there's not much we can do to diagnose.

Anyone got any experience of either disk trouble or DM at early onset to give us an idea of what to look for? Realise this is next to useless compared to a full diagnosis but as that's not possible at the moment I'm trying to get an ieidea of likely progression and how long we might get with him. Also it's given me something to do besides worry!
 
DM usually starts in the rear end with rear paws scuffing off the floor and knuckling over/dragging the floor. We've had two females with it, one after the other, from different lines, one was kept on a bit too long and was pretty immobile/kept collapsing when she was PTS (12) the other was a couple of years from first scuffing to the point of not being able to get up without difficulty and the first time that happened, the vet was called (14).
 
Could you look at getting a heart scan and then either rads or straight for MRI and nerve conduction tests with GAs advice from the cardio. It’s unlikely the heart would preclude GA but at the moment it’s another unknown. Would save an unknown length of time ‘guessing’ and give you the information to go forwards in the best way for him. It’s not going to be cheap but at this early stage your best bet to answers...
 
It doesn't sound typical of early DM. As CC says the scuffing of rear feet is usually one of the early signs. Did pain relief make a difference, because with DM it doesn't because its a loss of control rather a pain thing. Would it be possible for him to be x rayed under sedation for x rays, he would only be under for a very short while so I imagine wouldn't put too much strain on a heart murmur.
 
Thanks for the replies folks.

He doesn't have scuffed nails and doesn't drag his toes; there is no knuckling over at all. He occasionally drags the right toe (which is the weaker leg) as I'll hear it when walking - but it's very infrequent and there is no damage to the nails at all. I'd say he did perk up under the gabapentin, but not hugely - he's a thinker of a dog and he's never wanted to 'play' in the normal sense (not interested in toys etc), although he does enjoy wrestling with my younger one and is happy to do big jumps to try and engage him in that! That hasn't changed at all!

One thing I have noticed is that when he sits down, he will always try and push his back firmly against something (the wall or the couch) so perhaps that relieves the pain of a bulging disk.

I think we're going to have to see about sedation for X rays rather than GA. He's not insured (the murmur saw to that) so we will need to pay - obviously I'm not averse to that, but we do need to be realistic about where the money is spent vs what results we can get. Hopefully the vet will be able to do X rays under sedation; he did have a heart check for the murmur a while back, and they couldn't get him to stay still at all for that when normally he's an absolute dope. I bet my equine vet could do it - he'd let me hold him while it was done, which I know would keep him steadier as he knows I brook no opposition to wriggling.

Thanks for this guys - DM is my absolute worst nightmare and something I've feared since we began our GSD ownership in 1998! So I will cling to the hope that it's a disk rather than DM, and speak to the vet about the X rays. :)
 
X ray under sedation shouldn't be hugely expensive. I see you are North Wales, if your vet isn't happy to x ray under sedation Hampton Vets at Malpas , Cheshire have been doing it for years for hip and elbow scoring so maybe that could be an option.
I hope that it isn't DM, x ray can't diagnose that but hopefully would show if it was something else that could be treated.
 
Good shout MM - I have a friend who's under Hamptons and she thinks they are good, so I'll try them if mine aren't amenable.

I'm not 'hoping' x rays will find something, but if they show that it's something else, that'd be a better outcome than DM and we can consider treatment options.

Funnily enough, everyone always praises my big fella for his good looks - he's big for a GSD both tall and broad, basically looks like a black and tan wolf, and he's beautifully marked. We've had loads of people ask if they can breed from him (obviously we wouldn't even countenance that and we have always explained why, suggesting that they may want to leave it to the experts) but my younger dog is vastly superior both in drive and health, and nobody has once asked about him because he's not pretty!
 
Have you got any further with this SadKen?

Years ago when my GSD bitch had similar symptoms we were referred to a specialist who performed a myelogram on her, and if my memory serves me correctly (going back 20 years) we also went for an MRI. She did have to have a GA for both though, so probably not an option for your lad. It turned out to be a disk problem which could be helped via a risky operation, so we opted for pain relief and management. Sadly she died not that long after from an unrelated incident so I can't give any advice as to how those options would work long term. I hope there is treatment for your dog. DM is every GSD owners worst nightmare I think.

Would love to see photos of your dogs if you can upload them here.
 
WGSD - We've got an appt to see the vet again; I called in and as he seems pretty comfortable at the moment, he's to be seen early Feb for vaccinations and we'll do the discussion at the same time. There haven't been any further wobbles thus far. The GA for an MRI and any kind of op is not something I want to risk - especially as he seems fairly comfortable. He's on a 35kg dose of metacam for his hips which I daresay is helping with his back, and we are being extremely circumspect about exercise/bouncing around so he's on lead all the time for exercise now. He's certainly keen to exercise, as evidenced by his reaction yesterday when I put his lead on (and subsequent horror at the bath, rather than the walk, which followed).

I have also looked into physio and swimming - we will likely follow this route as well and supporting pain relief rather than anything more invasive. If we can't manage pain effectively at any point we will let him go - but honestly he does seem generally pretty happy at this point, so hoping it'll continue for a good while yet!

I'll have to see if I can add pics on when I'm home. If there was a prize for 'most mis-matched brace', we'd win that hands down!
 
SadKen said:
WGSD - We've got an appt to see the vet again; I called in and as he seems pretty comfortable at the moment, he's to be seen early Feb for vaccinations and we'll do the discussion at the same time. There haven't been any further wobbles thus far. The GA for an MRI and any kind of op is not something I want to risk - especially as he seems fairly comfortable. He's on a 35kg dose of metacam for his hips which I daresay is helping with his back, and we are being extremely circumspect about exercise/bouncing around so he's on lead all the time for exercise now. He's certainly keen to exercise, as evidenced by his reaction yesterday when I put his lead on (and subsequent horror at the bath, rather than the walk, which followed).

I have also looked into physio and swimming - we will likely follow this route as well and supporting pain relief rather than anything more invasive. If we can't manage pain effectively at any point we will let him go - but honestly he does seem generally pretty happy at this point, so hoping it'll continue for a good while yet!

I'll have to see if I can add pics on when I'm home. If there was a prize for 'most mis-matched brace', we'd win that hands down!
Click to expand...

That is really encouraging news. I do hope you can continue to keep him as pain-free, comfortable and happy for as long as possible. I can completely understand your reluctance for a GA given his heart issues.

Look forward to seeing pics if you can manage them :)
 
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