Deleted.

[teddy_]

Deleted.

 

[bonny]

Have you tried a cliffney? There is no way she could pull you over wearing one. I wouldn’t pts a 4 year old for the reasons you have stated but I’m sure others will be along to say they would. I think she’s too young to not be worth trying with, maybe sent her to a trainer and see how someone else gets on with her.

 

[Pmf27]

I don't know enough to have a worthwhile opinion on this, but just wanted to say I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It sounds like a heartbreaking (and frustrating!) situation.

 

[sportsmansB]

I'd be inclined to send her to someone who deals with challenging horses and see can they find the key to her before making that decision.
But if they can't fix it you will have your answer.

 

[scats]

Have you had this pony for a while or was she a recent purchase?

 

[AmyMay]

If she’s genuinely dangerous, yes have her put down.

 

[Barton Bounty]

She is a baby! There is no reason to pts, someone else may not have these types of issues. She just needs some work, its took my horse about 3 months to settle down. Agree try a chifney

 

[teddy_]

Have you tried a cliffney? There is no way she could pull you over wearing one. I wouldn’t pts a 4 year old for the reasons you have stated but I’m sure others will be along to say they would. I think she’s too young to not be worth trying with, maybe sent her to a trainer and see how someone else gets on with her.

We have not tried a chifney as she almost always gets away and I do not want her charging off wearing one.

This is a learned behaviour.

 

[paddi22]

I totally agree with sportsmansb. I'd give her a chance with a suitable pro before making any decisions. she has a huge hole in her education, and she is young enough that someone trained could fix it. we get very difficult young ponies in for training with similar issues, and with correct training they have all come right. she might never be the pony that suits you, but she could find a home with someone that might be able for her.

the correct horsemanship style pro person could give her a chance. she's so young and just doesn't have a step in her education installed properly

 

[paddi22]

We have not tried a chifney as she almost always gets away and I do not want her charging off wearing one.

This is a learned behaviour.

if it's a learned behaviour then it can be unlearned with correct training.

 

[smolmaus]

I've written on here a few times about a horse I know who is very similar. He was able to go back to the sanctuary where he was born and where he is honestly a different person. Happy, relaxed, still not 100% safe but much better. There was always something to be anxious about, even at our small, quiet livery yard and when he got over threshold he just had to get away no matter who was holding him. SOME of the issues have been solved with him having the same people, the same routine and an easy life but I personally don't think he will ever be a ridden horse. I love him but I would never trust him.

If your pony is anything like the one I know, a chifney might work ONCE. He had one in at the vets as it was necessary for a workup and although he "behaved" while it was in he came back worse. It added to the trauma and mistrust, it didn't solve WHY he felt like he needed to run. Last time I mentioned this boy on here someone recommended Michael Peace and although the resources weren't available to do that for this boy, I think an understanding and psychologically-focused trainer might have been helpful. Not someone who is going to just bully them into behaving.

 

[teddy_]

I have deleted as it's clearly the wrong decision.

I just wanted opinions as it is easy for what you think is right or wrong to become blurry when the people around you are telling you what you should shouldn't be doing in a situation where it's hard to be objective.

 

[AnShanDan]

I couldn't pts a 4 yo for the reasons you give. Young horses can be challenging and I've seen myself having to put in a lot of work with a couple we've had, esp. in the winter. However, they all came good eventually.

If you say it's learned behaviour, it's not really bolting, bolting is fear. Pissing off when they feel like it is lack of training.

 

[Fieldlife]

Use a chifney and a headcollar. Thread rope through chifney, rather than attach it. Have main rope on headcollar. If you do lose her, the rope on chifney will come lose.

 

[Annagain]

What a horrible situation for everyone. I'm sorry you're facing this.

I think the first question I have is are you sure she's healthy? You haven't mentioned any vet checks but that doesn't mean you haven't done them. If not, I'd definitely get a full work up for her to check there's not a physical reason for her doing this.

If nothing physical is found, I think I would be inclined to send her to a highly recommended professional before making the decision, mainly so that I would know that I've tried everything before making that decision and I could be at peace with it. (I'm not suggesting you shouldn't be, it's just what I'd feel I'd need to do)

 

[eggs]

It definitely sounds as though she has a huge hole in her education.

I would send her to some-one like Michael Peace for an assessment and take it from there. It might unfortunately end up that pts is the right decision but I would give a young pony a chance first.

 

[smolmaus]

I have deleted as it's clearly the wrong decision.

I just wanted opinions as it is easy for what you think is right or wrong to become blurry when the people around you are telling you what you should shouldn't be doing in a situation where it's hard to be objective.

I was about to edit and say I don't think it is necessarily the wrong decision. You know the pony, you know what your circumstances are and you're right that passing a pony like this on to someone else wouldn't be the right thing to do. If something has gone wrong in their development at some point, there is a chance that they will never be safe to handle and that it won't be fixable. It only takes one of these bolting episodes to go badly and someone could be killed.

 

[Gallop_Away]

What a horrible situation for everyone. I'm sorry you're facing this.

I think the first question I have is are you sure she's healthy? You haven't mentioned any vet checks but that doesn't mean you haven't done them. If not, I'd definitely get a full work up for her to check there's not a physical reason for her doing this.

If nothing physical is found, I think I would be inclined to send her to a highly recommended professional before making the decision, mainly so that I would know that I've tried everything before making that decision and I could be at peace with it. (I'm not suggesting you shouldn't be, it's just what I'd feel I'd need to do)

Completely agree. Get a thorough work up from a vet and then if all OK I would send her to a professional to see if the issues can be fixed. If not then you have your answer but you can at least take comfort from knowing that you tried your best for her. I'm so sorry you are in this situation xx

 

[bonny]

I would guess that as the OP deleted her question she doesn’t really want everybodies opinions on her situation so what’s the point of carrying on answering a non existent query ?

 

[teddy_]

I would guess that as the OP deleted her question she doesn’t really want everybodies opinions on her situation so what’s the point of carrying on answering a non existent query ?

No, you are wrong.

I deleted because I posted something in an emotional state of mind and probably did not articulate the situation well at all.

 

[bonny]

No, you are wrong.

I deleted because I posted something in an emotional state of mind and probably did not articulate the situation well at all.

Tell us more about your pony then ....what is she, size type etc ? How long have you had her and what’s her background ? She really sounds sortable going by what you wrote in your original post so why do you feel it’s the end of the road for her ?

 

[Annagain]

I also imagine OP doesn't want to feel that she's being attacked as this is clearly a very sensitive situation. It must be awful to even be considering it - nobody makes that decision lightly so she deserves our empathy and sensitive advice rather than simply "don't do it."

There's no judgement here Teddy so please don't feel it's the 'wrong' decision. I don't think there's a right or wrong in this situation but you do need to be at peace with your decision and your reaction suggests to me that maybe you're not at the moment? It might not be the one others would make but we're not in your shoes. On the other hand, there are some really knowledgeable people here who will have good advice so don't miss the opportunity to seek that advice too.

Sending a hug of solidarity.

 

[Birker2020]

I have deleted as it's clearly the wrong decision.

I just wanted opinions as it is easy for what you think is right or wrong to become blurry when the people around you are telling you what you should shouldn't be doing in a situation where it's hard to be objective.

You will get 100 people telling you 100 things and it can be very hard to see through the fog and do what's right and this can make you even more indecisive. At the end of the day you have to do what is best for your horse and best for you. I know what its like. Huge hugs.

 

[teddy_]

I also imagine OP doesn't want to feel that she's being attacked as this is clearly a very sensitive situation. It must be awful to even be considering it - nobody makes that decision lightly so she deserves our empathy and sensitive advice rather than simply "don't do it."

There's no judgement here Teddy so please don't feel it's the 'wrong' decision. I don't think there's a right or wrong in this situation but you do need to be at peace with your decision and your reaction suggests to me that maybe you're not at the moment? It might not be the one others would make but we're not in your shoes. On the other hand, there are some really knowledgeable people here who will have good advice so don't miss the opportunity to seek that advice too.

Sending a hug of solidarity.

Thank you.

I just feel like I have a pony who was basically let down in the first four years of her life by no boundaries being instilled (she came direct from breeder, pretty feral).

She is naturally a hot pony being mostly Arabian and that combined with a complete lack of education before I got her is proving difficult. As I said in the original post, the best way I can describe her is not having that want to yield to humans that a lot of horses do have, IME anyway.

I am merely concerned that if I pass this pony on to an uncertain future (which is always the case as we can never guarantee where they end up), she will end up on a steep downward trajectory and suffer (especially in the current economic climate). Her behaviour has on occasions been dangerous. Example: when she pulled away from my partner last week, she ran straight into stock fencing, just because she got spooked by waterproof trousers rustling. I want to reiterate, these are behaviours she came to me with, not behaviours that have cropped up in my ownership. We have had periods where there hasn't been an issue, but it's the volatility and unpredictability that is so trying now.

During the six months I have had her, she has been ridden by two 'professionals' and they both agree that whilst sometimes she can be a complete poppet under saddle and on the ground, she has a side to her that when she is flustered / frightened, she does / will down tools.

I am not coming at this having not seeked the opinion of suitably experienced people, who have seen her in action so to speak.

I don't think I would be at peace having not tried to fill the gap in her education, which is why I posted this thread in the first place. So, having read your replies, which in some cases have been useful, maybe I ought to get someone to take her back to square one and see how we go. This is also what one of the 'pro' riders is suggesting.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

I think you would be right to take things back to absolute basics with her. Four years old is very much still a baby, especially mentally. If it were me, I would treat her as such, with the aim of rebacking her at six. My other suggestion would be to examine her diet - could there be anything that's triggering her, such as soya or alfalfa? Good luck with her.

 

[TPO]

I'd say that your two "professionals" so far have done you a disservice. IMO no one worth their salt would get on a horse with such big holes in their training.





Assuming that there are no physical / pain issues I'd engage a good professional experienced with this type of situation.



Personally I'd recommend Joe Midgley. He travels extensively (he comes up to Scotland) and has a superb way with horses. You can also subscribe to his website The Good Horsemanship Channel and start from scratch with your wee mare working along with the videos. I found it really valuable watching him at clinics even without taking a horse. He holds various demos and open days too.



So yeah I'd say if she has a clean bill of health then she needs taken back to the start so that correct, solid foundations can be built. Horses can be taught to manage their emotions and reactions (ethically).



It might be worth reviewing your skills too. When emotions and past experiences getting the mix it can be easy to transmit that to a horse. Also can leave the person expecting the worse and overreacting. Timing is crucial too. I didn't see the OP so am replying based on other replies. In the nicest way you might not be the be the right person to be handling the mare at this moment in time if there have been incidents so far. If involving a good pro isn't an option currently would turning her away be one?

Just to go against the grain I wouldn't recommend using a chifney. They are severe and work because of the severity. Without knowing what's happened to date and the experience of handlers it wouldn't be my go to solution. There was a research paper posted about the chifney effects (equitopia perhaps?) and it wasn't pleasant. Razor blades in the hands of a monkey springs to mind. Not specific to OP as I don't know what you wrote but I'd baulk at the training experience of some who go straight to chifney.

 

[teddy_]

I think you would be right to take things back to absolute basics with her. Four years old is very much still a baby, especially mentally. If it were me, I would treat her as such, with the aim of rebacking her at six. My other suggestion would be to examine her diet - could there be anything that's triggering her, such as soya or alfalfa? Good luck with her.

Thank you.

She doesn't really get hard feed as she's 1. such a good doer and 2. not in enough work to warrant it. She gets 1/4 scoop of Baileys no. 8 to stop her kicking the door at feed time.

 

[teddy_]

I'd say that your two "professionals" so far have done you a disservice. IMO no one worth their salt would get on a horse with such big holes in their training.





Assuming that there are no physical / pain issues I'd engage a good professional experienced with this type of situation.



Personally I'd recommend Joe Midgley. He travels extensively (he comes up to Scotland) and has a superb way with horses. You can also subscribe to his website The Good Horsemanship Channel and start from scratch with your wee mare working along with the videos. I found it really valuable watching him at clinics even without taking a horse. He holds various demos and open days too.



So yeah I'd say if she has a clean bill of health then she needs taken back to the start so that correct, solid foundations can be built. Horses can be taught to manage their emotions and reactions (ethically).



It might be worth reviewing your skills too. When emotions and past experiences getting the mix it can be easy to transmit that to a horse. Also can leave the person expecting the worse and overreacting. Timing is crucial too. I didn't see the OP so am replying based on other replies. In the nicest way you might not be the be the right person to be handling the mare at this moment in time if there have been incidents so far. If involving a good pro isn't an option currently would turning her away be one?

Just to go against the grain I wouldn't recommend using a chifney. They are severe and work because of the severity. Without knowing what's happened to date and the experience of handlers it wouldn't be my go to solution. There was a research paper posted about the chifney effects (equitopia perhaps?) and it wasn't pleasant. Razor blades in the hands of a monkey springs to mind. Not specific to OP as I don't know what you wrote but I'd baulk at the training experience of some who go straight to chifney.

Thank you.

I don't necessarily think it's the riders doing me a disservice, as sometimes the ridden work is perfect and you can see her enjoying it, so, in the most simple terms something must have been done right when she was broken in and ridden away.

As I said before, it's the volatility in her reactions that is so puzzling. I also don't think the holes are so much in the ridden work as it was only last week that she did something naughty under saddle after four months of riding. It's just everything else and I know what people will say, "why did you get a horse broken before you ironed out the groundwork?" - well the answer is simple, she was physically mature enough and needed a job for her busy brain - which I had hoped might take the edge off. Clearly I was wrong and naïve.

There are definitely no physical issues that are obvious to my vet and seeing as he is an FEI vet / physio with 40 + years experience, I am happy to take his clean bill of health for her.

I would not question the notion that I am probably not the best person to be trying to teach her anything, as the whole thing has become to emotionally fraught for me and that is not my intention. So yes, in short, I will try and seek out the best 'pro' that I can for her.

 

[Annagain]

I can see you're in East Sussex, maybe someone with some local knowledge could give you some recommendations?

 

[TPO]

Unlikely to be the cause but no.8 contains alfa, soya, linseed and peas. All of which *can* be attributed so some horse's behaviour issues. Ideally sugar and starch combined should be <10% and no.8 is 12.5%

There are probably more suitable feeds available if that's a route you want to pursue