Deleted.

[teddy_]

Unicely to be the cause but no.8 contains alfa, soya, linseed and peas. All of which *can* be attributed so some horse's behaviour issues. Ideally sugar and starch combined should be <10% and no.8 is 12.5%

There are probably more suitable feeds available if that's a route you want to pursue

Sure, but she gets a handful once a day. Also, as I said, the behaviours she exhibits where present from day one.

 

[TPO]

Thank you.































I don't necessarily think it's the riders doing me a disservice, as sometimes the ridden work is perfect and you can see her enjoying it, so, in the most simple terms something must have been done right when she was broken in and ridden away.































As I said before, it's the volatility in her reactions that is so puzzling. I also don't think the holes are so much in the ridden work as it was only last week that she did something naughty under saddle after four months of riding. It's just everything else and I know what people will say, "why did you get a horse broken before you ironed out the groundwork?" - well the answer is simple, she was physically mature enough and needed a job for her busy brain - which I had hoped might take the edge off. Clearly I was wrong and naïve.































There are definitely no physical issues that are obvious to my vet and seeing as he is an FEI vet / physio with 40 + years experience, I am happy to take his clean bill of health for her.































I would not question the notion that I am probably not the best person to be trying to teach her anything, as the whole thing has become to emotionally fraught for me and that is not my intention. So yes, in short, I will try and seek out the best 'pro' that I can for her.

TBF to yourself it's still a fairly new concept that groundwork can be transferred to ridden work.



I mean it's not new and I'm explaining it badly. More that in the UK there was a generally accepted like that groundwork was for "parelli nuts" that never ride kinds thing.



Lots of things are ok until they aren't. If the mare can't handle her emotions* on the ground there's a big risk that one day they come out while ridden in a spectacular fashion.

*Warwick Schiller might be worth a look at too. He has like 10 rules and one of them is about rabbits. I can't remember it exactly but basically it looks like the flip out was because of a rabbit hopping past but really that was just the final straw.

Warwick Schiller has loads of free videos on YouTube. Most of them are "old" Warwick Schiller. He then had a breakdown and epiphany that lead to him changing how he worked and interacted with horses. He's got a subscription service with 2 different programmes. One is "relationship" and this might suit you and your mare. He also has a podcast and is very into self help/self awareness type stuff so thst might help you too.

It's easy to not be able to see the woods for the trees when it's your horse. I bet if someone asked you for help with their young horse you'd have lots of practical advice but it's just hard when emotions are involved.

 

[AnShanDan]

OP, I think a lot of us will be sympathetic, having been there! I had one youngster (16.2 wbxtb not a pony) that was so overreactive I lost sleep over leading him in and out to the field, he would be fine till he was running back and then standing up!! I had to get over my own fear and keep it totally calm because he would feed off any nerves, it's dangerous so no wonder we get anxious about it!
I totally agree that she needs to learn how to deal with her emotions and they can do that. My horse leads like a lamb now and is a gentleman to handle and ride but it took years.
Good luck, I hope you can find someone that will be able to help her.

 

[teddy_]

TBF to yourself it's still a fairly new concept that groundwork can be transferred to ridden work.



I mean it's not new and I'm explaining it badly. More that in the UK there was a generally accepted like that groundwork was for "parelli nuts" that never ride kinds thing.



Lots of things are ok until they aren't. If the mare can't handle her emotions* on the ground there's a big risk that one day they come out while ridden in a spectacular fashion.

*Warwick Schiller might be worth a look at too. He has like 10 rules and one of them is about rabbits. I can't remember it exactly but basically it looks like the flip out was because of a rabbit hopping past but really that was just the final straw.

Warwick Schiller has loads of free videos on YouTube. Most of them are "old" Warwick Schiller. He then had a breakdown and epiphany that lead to him changing how he worked and interacted with horses. He's got a subscription service with 2 different programmes. One is "relationship" and this might suit you and your mare. He also has a podcast and is very into self help/self awareness type stuff so thst might help you too.

It's easy to not be able to see the woods for the trees when it's your horse. I bet if someone asked you for help with their young horse you'd have lots of practical advice but it's just hard when emotions are involved.

Thank you.

I will have a look at Warwick Schiller as this sounds useful.

When I first got her, I thought her behaviour was down to the upheaval of leaving the farm where she was bred and a sudden change in management. However, after almost a year of consistency and a fair bit of work, it is so much more deep rooted than that.

She was bred and handled for four years by a woman in her 80s and the bottom line is, she knows she is stronger than her handler, which is just proving so hard to unravel.

 

[SEL]

I've had two with this kind of behaviour. The hand reared Appy is still with me and after 8 years my non horsey OH can handle her - but she still has her neurotic moments. As a 4yo she was going to be shot and the guy gave her to me after making me sign a disclaimer. It was not an easy time and even the vets said to me at one point that if I wanted to call time they'd be fully supportive. But I liked her and tbh I've learnt so much from having to challenge myself every single flipping day on how to handle her that I often feel I owe her for making me a better horse person! She's spent many years being led in a dually or bridle. Headcollar meant rope around the nose from the outset. Gloves and hat on. I found if I had a lunge rope on then the minute she'd try and run I'd drop to the floor so the pressure from her on the rope couldn't pull me over because I was already at ground level. So she'd run to the end of the lunge line and then her head would yank back. Unpleasant, but so was she.... Didn't have anyone else handle her for a long time.

The other though was the semi feral pony I inherited when I bought land. He was 17 and in need of vet attention and I realised I was 1) out of my depth and 2) even if I involved a professional then for what purpose? He was never going to be ridden (wasn't sound enough let alone brain in right place). I could get the headcollar on him but the minute a lead rope went on he would twist sideways with intent, pull you off your feet and bog off kicking out in your direction. I did enough training to ensure the day he was euthanised was as peaceful as possible but even then we didn't open his stable door until he was full of sedation and he had the chifney on.

At 4 I think you have time to work on behaviour but I'd involve someone like Michael Peace who is really, really good at that kind of thing. If I had my time again I'd have used him for the Appy rather than struggling through on my own. Incidentally I got on her too - she was much better under saddle and I think it focused her head a lot more

 

[TPO]

she knows she is stronger than her handler, which is just proving so hard to unravel.

That is hard because you (generic) need to set boundaries that are consistently stuck to. Not for the faint hearted when it's a learnt behaviour and timing is crucial.

Again I didn't see the OP but if things are that bad might be worth turning her away so that you don't get hurt until you can find a programme and/or trainer to work with/send her to.

 

[AmyMay]

However, after almost a year of consistency and a fair bit of work, it is so much more deep rooted than that.

Have you had her for a year or six months?

How long ago was she broken in?

 

[SantaVera]

there is a charity called Hopton Rehab and Homing which take on horses to school and find homes for. They have a web site and facebook page
The horse remains in the ownership of the charity for life so its future is secured. y
ou could try contacting them and signing over your horse.
they have recently taken on a lovely little welshie who was going to be pts due to unhandleability. its been with them a very short while and now leads and loads and has been to its first show already. there is help out there from experienced people who really do know what htey are doing. please consider this option.

 

[SantaVera]

https://www.hoptonrehabhoming.org/

 

[teddy_]

Have you had her for a year or six months?

How long ago was she broken in?

Sorry, that was a complete typo. I have had her since April, so actually eight months! Lost track of time.

She spent the whole of July and August at the breakers.

 

[AmyMay]

Sorry, that was a complete typo. I have had her since April, so actually eight months! Lost track of time.

She spent the whole of July and August at the breakers.

How did the breakers find her? And what did you do with her once she returned home?

 

[teddy_]

How did the breakers find her? And what did you do with her once she returned home?

Just for context - the breakers yard is run by a friend of mine, ergo I trust their feedback implicitly.

The friend who broke her said that she never actually did anything 'naughty', but it was 100% there and she was / is sharp as a tack.

I have been riding / working her three to four days per week since then - with the exception of the odd week where we have had atrocious weather (we only have an outdoor arena).

Honestly, what I have found most difficult is that after a relatively long spell of being sweet under saddle, on Sunday, she decided she was going to bugger off without any obvious trigger. What she did under saddle is the same thing she does on the ground - locking her neck and just running. I suppose on reflection it was only ever a matter of time for this 'vice' to translate into the ridden work...

 

[AmyMay]

Have you thought about turning her away until the spring to mature? And settle mentally?

 

[TPO]

What area are you in?

I have a big long story about my horse and a trainer but for a change I'll spare the forum ? I consider myself fairly decent at groundwork and training stuff but since he was at that trainer (for 11 days 4yrs ago before I brought him straight home) he is a totally different horse and I've never fully got him over it.

He does everything I ask but has never been 100% focused on me. I knew there was a hole that had the potential to be a car crash but I couldn't find it because he did everything I asked.

Anyway I went to a clinic up here by Clive Johnson and he found it straight away. He was brilliant with my horse and me (even although I was like jelly because it was years since I'd done anything in front of "spectators").

But yeah if you're anywhere near Clive (Newcastle Durham type area? Geography not my strong point and he travels far) might be worth a session or 2 with him



ETA- the locking neck and bracing thing is a big red flag. Clive, Joe, Warwick etc all cover working on softness and pressure/release. I bet watching their stuff will have light bulbs firing off all over the place

 

[teddy_]

Have you thought about turning her away until the spring to mature? And settle mentally?

It has crossed my mind, but it's difficult finding the right set up in the South East. Too many horses and not enough land.

She wouldn't do well in a boggy field (she's the type who will be standing by the gate at 2pm) and I think would still need simple daily handling to keep her on the same page.

 

[rextherobber]

How about sending her to Michael Peace? Or he does travel.

 

[teddy_]

How about sending her to Michael Peace? Or he does travel.

I have messaged him to see if he can come out .

 

[Yeomans]

I have messaged him to see if he can come out .

Have you tried Jason Webb or Hamish at Risebridge in Goudhurst. He is an excellent horseman, very patient and understanding and is doing a demo tomorrow 8 December at Risebridge if you could get to it. Good luck with the future

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Keep in mind that at four, they still have teeth coming in, they're growing in general, and their hormones are all over the place too. My roan was frankly horrid at that age. He couldn't help himself, and neither can your young pony. Honestly, reading back through your posts on other threads about her, she's been on a bit of a whirlwind introduction to life as a grown up pony so far. You only bought her in April! Slow down, and enjoy the journey.