DENMAN!!!

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MizElz

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What more can I say!?!
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Anybody else think Denmans owners reaction to his win was a bit strange? I didnt think comments after the race were that gracious.
Having said what a fantastic result for the yard.
 
Stunning- I love that horse!

Do you think the trainer gave instructions about the game plan? As soon as they set off I couldn't believe the grey was leading, I was like 'whoa, save yourself a bit!' do you think they used him like a pacemaker? I think he could have had a second otherwise.
 
Brilliant horse and one which I did fancy for the race to be honest and backed to win. I do think the world of Kauto but felt as though his stablemate was open to more improvement that him. Kauto was consistent and in all honesty may prove best at a trip less than the gold cup one.
Connections thought the tacky ground may have been Kauto's undoing and that may well be the case and on faster ground he would probably have beaten his stablemate who may well have been a non runner on fast ground anyway.
Having seen Denman's ability to handle soft ground already this season and with an engine and stamina to boot he did look the form choice of the race.
I still believe under similar circumstances and on ground no faster than the soft side of good he would beat Kauto hands down.
To be honest I thought Kicking King may have given them all a race judged on his come back run but he then disappointed afterwards and could be a delicate sort. He would not have beaten Denman on the ground though as like Kauto he wanted better ground.
I was disappointed with my each way selections though. Halcon ran no sort of race for a horse that had consistently showed he could live with a fast pace over hurdles and who ran a terrific race under a burden to get close to impressive winner Miko de Beauchane at Chepstow. After being pulled up in last year's gold cup I don't think he has an affinity for Cheltenham at this time of year.
Afistfullofdollars, was supplemented for the race and I thought he was open to improvement and even if he improved 10 to 15lbs from his last run it may have been enough to have reached a place. He could well be worth following in his native Ire next season.
Exotic Dancer is one to take from the race and after an interrupted preparation ( muscle problems) he could be well worth following next time at Aintree unless he bumps into Star de Mohaison (who I believe will take all the beating there). O'Neill's charge has still showed a zest for racing this season and despite being beaten by old rival Kauto in the run up to the event he could still play a major role in the trials and the gold cup itself next season.
As for Harry Findlay I didn't think his comments were ungracious. He spoke the truth in that the race was a true match and that both horses were equally prepared for the race. There was no favouritism for training regimes by Nicholls. After interviewing him ( Nicholls) and his representatives in the past I can tell you now he is one of the most honest people in national hunt racing. He doesn't bullshit and is very friendly to the press.
Findlay is a very enthusiastic owner and I perfectly understood what message he was trying to convey.
I don't know if they interviewed Paul Barber the other joint owner after the race but he is another to be very well connected with the yard and in fact whose colours were carried to victory aboard See More Business back in 1999.
In fact to be honest I thought Mr Smith seemed a little ungracious in defeat after Kauto got beat especially after the horse won him a cool one million bonus last season for winning the Betfair chase, King George and Golf Cup as well as Master Minded romping away with the Champion chase yesterday in his silks.
I can understand that being beaten by Denman was deflating however it could have been worse and it could have been a horse from another yard.
Nicholls achieved an excellent feat in training the first 3 home especially as Neptune Collonges ( 3rd) is suited by better ground ( I backed him at Punch last season), a flat track and is possibly better going right handed too.
An excellent race and certainly the highlight of the whole meeting except for seeing AP McCoy back in the saddle and riding a winner to boot
smile.gif

Caz
 
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Anybody else think Denmans owners reaction to his win was a bit strange? I didnt think comments after the race were that gracious.


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To be fair, Denman was the underdog in the build up to the Gold Cup, and came in for a lot of criticism from pundits who cast doubts his stamina, speed, and jumping ability.
Yes it wasn't very sporting of him, but it's not that surprising that, after all the unfavourable comparisons to Kauto, Harry Findlay made the most of his horses moment of glory.
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Have to say "GUTTED",was willing kauto on but he just didnt look right to me,really didnt like the ground!!He will get another crack at denman am sure!!
I didnt think much of denmans owner at all,pompus springs to mind,i had to laugh at the comments he made,anyone would think it was him personally that had trained the horse and given the race instructions
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I did watch the race, the horses were amazing. It always brings a tear to my eye, they try their hearts out. I dont really enjoy watching it, I think it is very unfair on the horses and even though the jockeys are fantastic, it does infuriate me when they bang up and down on the horses backs, particularly when they are on the final stretch and are trying to squeeze the last bit of the poor exhausted animals, it must slow them down and make it even more difficult.
 
I think Clive Smith was very gracious, and I think both horses are very beautiful and Denman totally has the competitive edge even though I like Kauto more as a character.

However - Master Minded - the one to watch - if he stays safe. I admire Paul Nicholls - he has to please everyone.
 
"pompus springs to mind"
lmao is this is referring to Findlay then that is so far from the truth. lol just how much racing have you seen and how many interviews with him?
He is a loud mouthed, enthusiastic gambling owner. He puts his money where his mouth is and gets very excited after any of his horses' win. Considering how much it actually costs to train a racehorse then I don't blame him at all.
Denman was the underdog as Kauto had been there and done it and had raced in classier races in his build up to the race whereas Denman's most impressive triumph this season was trouncing his field in the hennessy gold cup under a welter burden of 11-12.
However let's not forget that this horse also won one of the best ever trial's for the race the previous season, the Sun Alliance chase.
 
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"pompus springs to mind"
lmao is this is referring to Findlay then that is so far from the truth. lol just how much racing have you seen and how many interviews with him?
He is a loud mouthed, enthusiastic gambling owner. He puts his money where his mouth is and gets very excited after any of his horses' win. Considering how much it actually costs to train a racehorse then I don't blame him at all.
Denman was the underdog as Kauto had been there and done it and had raced in classier races in his build up to the race whereas Denman's most impressive triumph this season was trouncing his field in the hennessy gold cup under a welter burden of 11-12.
However let's not forget that this horse also won one of the best ever trial's for the race the previous season, the Sun Alliance chase.

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agreed...Harry lives not a stones throw from me......

he is great for racing.....a spade is a spade.....
 
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However - Master Minded - the one to watch - if he stays safe. I admire Paul Nicholls - he has to please everyone.

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he is indeed one to watch... for one am pleased PN is going to keep him at 2 miles....
 
I can certainly say that Master Minded surprised me as my money was down on Voy Por Ustedes and yet Nicholls's horse left him for dead.
Granted better ground I think Voy can turn the tables though if there is a rematch at Aintree in a few weeks.
King's charge looked well before the start and the best I have seen him this winter, so he should be on the way back to form. Roll on Aintree lol.
But yes I agree Master Minded is certainly one to watch in the 2 mile races next season.
 
Both Denman and Masterminded's performances were totally awesome!! We were totaly blown away at work by both performances!

What do you think of the theory that "a good 2 miler will get the national trip or double the distance"??? I think this is based on hunting round the first circuit and racing hte second - and of course staying upright...
 
As a Kauto fan I was pretty gutted. I dont think he was happy and never really looked liked winning. Ruby said he felt tired after the first circuit.
Can take nothing away from the winner however...he jumped brilliantly and just kept piling on the pressure.
Will look forward to the rematch!
 
Yes there is an old adage to that theory of 2milers and the national and I think the last 2 miler of recent years to go close was Blowing Wind a confirmed 2 mile horse for trainer Martin Pipe and owner Peter Deal. A previous winner of the Imperial Cup hdle at Sandown, County hurdle, Chelt, Scottish Champion hurdle, Ayr ( all 1998) who went on to finish a distant third ( refused and remounted) in 2001 behind Red Marauder and a year later a little closer ( 29l, weakened 2 out) to fill the same position behind Bindaree. Two further runs over the national were poor in finishing 8th ( 2003) and refusing at the 6th fence ( Becher's) in 2004.
The reasoning behind a theory is that a 2 mile horse has plenty of speed and can therefore keep up with the gallop, pace and fast jumping throughout the early stages of the national, which is especially true when the ground rides fast.
However what these two milers then need is the stamina to be able to stay on throughout the final circuit and up the elbow along the straight.
It is prudent to say therefore than when considering backing a horse which has raced or exclusively won over 2 miles you need to assess its pedigree. So long as the horse has a staying pedigree in either its dam's or sire's side then you cannot go far wrong. You may have to go back more than one generation but your research may prove successful.
These days as the fences are easier and the handicapper seems to be ahead of most of the field there is not much chance of a shock success.
Horse's need a blend of speed and stamina which is also true in the gold cup as well.
You may get non staying types being placed in a national or those who have been slogging around in the mud in long distance chases that season rewarding each way backers. But very rarely have I seen a true winter ground staying handicap chaser come up trumps in the national.
A race which in recent years has become one to watch with regard to the Irish fortunes is the previous year's Irish National at Fairyhouse.
I have backed a few winners of the Irish race that have come up trumps in the Aintree equivalent.
However that said I am not confident about last season's UK-trained victor Butler's Cabin ( trainer J O'Neill) especially as the horse reportedly needed oxygen after winning the 4m national chase at the Cheltenham festival last year. He has too much weight on 11-2 at this stage anyway. Other races to consider are the Becher chase run over the national fences in November ( 3m 3f) and the previous year's Topham Chase ( over national fences, 2m 5 1/2 f) and of course the previous year's national too.
Cloudy Lane which has carried all before him in handicap chases this season for Donald McCain -son of 4 time Grand National winning trainer Ginger McCain- did in fact run in the Irish National last season. That day the horse weakened after jumping 4 out and after being hampered at the next unseated jockey Tony Dobbin.
McCain's runner does look handily weighted at this stage on 10-10 after completing a four timer and is a worthy favourite on form. He has a staying pedigree on the dam side in Celtic Cone as I know I have certainly seen that stallion appear in a fair few decent jumping pedigrees. There may be the McCain factor from a betting point of view but that said he does at first glance look to have an excellent chance at Aintree providing he takes to the fences and gets into a good rhythm which is paramount to the chances of any national contenders.
Caz
 
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