Depressed is not even the word for it.....

annunziata

annunziata

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I knew something was up with my horse's behavior and insisted on taking him into the vets which I have done....He has kissing spine in three vertibraes and arthritis in his hocks........the vets now want to bone scan him £1700 then optentially operate on his back at £3K I have a 5K limit which leave no money to help him recover. i cant not really see why the bone scan is needed as they seem to have found the problem???????I get the impression they dont think he is fixable and this is their way of making sure before they tell me his is very broken :( totally pointless but heartbroken and sad
 
AH how sad ,take some time do some research then talk it though fully with the vet especially why they need the bone scan , they may what a complete overview to give as good as possible idea of the prognosis.
Nothing I can say , that's horses they are heartbreakers sometimes.
 
Aw that's pants. So sorry.

There are people on here who know lots more about kissing spine than I do, but I would suggest that you have a chat to your vet to establish whether there are options as to what you can do to stay within your insurance budget. In my experience a good vet will give you options. Bone scan and operation may be the gold standard, but there may be a silver or bronze standard that still gives him a good chance of getting better.
 
A mare of mine was diagnosed with OCD in both hocks and kissing spines - they bone scanned to see where the damage was exactly as I don't think they could be sure without this. Bone scans etc cost me more than the horse did. They can treat kissing spines with surgery and sometimes recommend that - perhaps depending on where the bones touch and how much etc. Not having heard what your vets said its hard to say but there are cases of successful treatment. Good luck
 
I am so sorry to hear that :(

Ring your vets and discuss the financial problem with them. They may let you pay it in installments, or could offer an alternative.
 
Blythe Spirit said:
A mare of mine was diagnosed with OCD in both hocks and kissing spines - they bone scanned to see where the damage was exactly as I don't think they could be sure without this. Bone scans etc cost me more than the horse did. They can treat kissing spines with surgery and sometimes recommend that - perhaps depending on where the bones touch and how much etc. Not having heard what your vets said its hard to say but there are cases of successful treatment. Good luck
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How was your mare did she make a recovery??
My problem is my horse hates hacking he is a show horse. So any result in him being a hack is a no no he would have to retire at the grand old age of 8. I think my vets side swiped me and I was a little unprepared. i have called back and asked for all the facts figures an upto date spend and lots of other stuff. Totally gutted. Out of 10 he is a 3/4 lame The most important thing is him and his quality of life

xx
 
This is terribly sad and I do so feel for you. There's not much I can say, but I also think you should talk about the financial constraints with the vet as they may well be able to help one way or another. Really horrible situation for you and the worst nightmare of us all. Be strong.
 
So you have actually been given 2 very large shocks. First, with the KS and then second with the potential of a very large bill and not having enough to cover all the costs.

So I would take a deep breath and write down all your questions relating to the KS, severity, time off, prognosis, options for care. You have already asked for breakdown of costs. I would seriously talk to your vet and stress your upper limit on the insurance. There are some (not all!) vets who do seem to push all the way on the insurance and then you get other no nonsense vets who will tell it as it is.

Horrible for you and I wish you every luck with working this through.
 
i really do feel for you. my horse was diagnosed with 3 spinal processes touching and i decided on the operation which then took place a month ago. the vets usually do like to bone scan to make sure that it is indeed the KS causing the problem as most horses havs KS to a certain extent but as my horse is uninsured we decided against it as we were very sure that it was the issue. The operation, weeks stay at the clinic, all the drugs and the following vet visit to remove the staples cost me approx £2,400. My horse is recovering extremely well, is moving around very comfortably and is being turned out at the end of this week after a months box rest. If you have any questions or want to see any pictures etc please feel free to PM me.
 
God what a nightmare. I agree you need to have a long chat with your vet, about costs and prognosis - and the degree of pain your horse is going to have to go through (and indeed recovery period).

Sending you both {{{{{{{{{{{{{VIBES}}}}}}}}}}}}}

sm x
 
The bone scan as I understand it is used to check that the operation would be worth it. If there are other hot spots then using surgery to treat the KS would not necessarily bring the horse right as there may well be issues elsewhere. KS surgery is very successful in horses that only have KS - no point in going through all that if you still have an uncomfortable horse because of DJD for example?
 
annunziata said:
I knew something was up with my horse's behavior and insisted on taking him into the vets which I have done....He has kissing spine in three vertibraes and arthritis in his hocks........the vets now want to bone scan him £1700 then optentially operate on his back at £3K I have a 5K limit which leave no money to help him recover. i cant not really see why the bone scan is needed as they seem to have found the problem???????I get the impression they dont think he is fixable and this is their way of making sure before they tell me his is very broken :( totally pointless but heartbroken and sad
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This is exactly like my horse but he had bone spavin and KS in ten places! They said it was pointless to bone scan because they had obviously found the problem. Fast forward a year and he had his hocks medicated and an op to remove 5 spinous processes. Sadly, his explosions when the girth is tightened or the roller is put on have not stopped and so he does have another problem going on. I wish now I'd had the bone scan as I don't think his back was the problem. I am emotionally drained regarding rehabbing him and so will not be riding him again. He is not happy in the winter routine of only 3 hours turnout a day. He needs much more if he is not being worked, which I cannot give him. He will probably go to the blood bank in the Spring (if I can bear to see him go. If I can't then I will just retire him here and he and I will have to cope with the winters). I know it is a lifestyle that would suit him as he is absolutely fabulous with needles, and loves playing with other horses in big herds.

I hope that you have a happy outcome with your boy. If these two problems are the only problems then the success rate is really good. Sadly, many horses with KS have other problems from years of compensating for their pain. It is heartbreaking. But it is like trying to find a needle in a haystack, and after my experience, it is not a road I would go down again.
 
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Thank you all for your comments....no sleep all night my boy is coming home today till I make a decision......part of me wants to get on and do the opp without the flaming bone scan other part is quit while I am ahead and have a 17 hh pet :-(

My vet called again last night and I missed him so will chat to him again today. The biggest problem is that he will never be a hack as he hates it xxx
 
I am not being awkward...honest....but KS was never around 20 years ago. I know that great strides have been made in diagnosing stuff due to improvements in technology. My OH always points out when we go to Rossdales etc that as they never have scans/x rays of when the horse was ok they have nothing to compare it with when horse is wrong. How do they know that what they find is not normal for that horse?

I know that does not help you....and some will shoot me for saying this, but sometimes the old fashioned ways work..ie. rest them or work them...it used to be all we ever did. I am not aiming this next coment a you OP,but some people expect their horses to be 100% sound all of the time.

I would trust your own instincts if I was you. If bute and go gives you both what you want for a shorter period of tme I would do that. Do what YOU believe to be right.
 
It is true that KS is present in a large number of horses and doesn't cause problems. My boy had one of the worst cases the vet had seen. Yet his back was not sore! Before the xrays, I had had a physio, chiro and two vets to him. All said his back was fine. His main symptom was exploding after you tightened the girth. Not when you actually did it, but when he first went to move afterwards. His other symptom was difficulty cantering on a circle. The op helped him with this, and his movement was generally better after the op, but the most troublesome symptom (the dangerous one) unfortunately remains. He is a lovely, genuine boy and so I am sure it is not remembered pain. There is something else going on. Strangely, he was better at first and I was back riding him, but the symptom just reappeared four months into his rehab. So the problem (trapped nerve?) was back. I do wonder if a bone scan would have been helpful.

I was going to do more investigating. But have realised he is just a broken horse and has had enough poking and prodding. Poor lad. And I cannot take all the raised and dashed hopes any more. At least I know he is a very happy and comfortable horse free of bute. He just cannot be ridden.
 
Wagtail said:
It is true that KS is present in a large number of horses and doesn't cause problems. My boy had one of the worst cases the vet had seen. Yet his back was not sore! Before the xrays, I had had a physio, chiro and two vets to him. All said his back was fine. His main symptom was exploding after you tightened the girth. Not when you actually did it, but when he first went to move afterwards. His other symptom was difficulty cantering on a circle. The op helped him with this, and his movement was generally better after the op, but the most troublesome symptom (the dangerous one) unfortunately remains. He is a lovely, genuine boy and so I am sure it is not remembered pain. There is something else going on. Strangely, he was better at first and I was back riding him, but the symptom just reappeared four months into his rehab. So the problem (trapped nerve?) was back. I do wonder if a bone scan would have been helpful.

I was going to do more investigating. But have realised he is just a broken horse and has had enough poking and prodding. Poor lad. And I cannot take all the raised and dashed hopes any more. At least I know he is a very happy and comfortable horse free of bute. He just cannot be ridden.
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This is what I am worried about as i wonder how much of this is all in his brain. He is such a loving horse and soo cute. his biggest problem is letting me get on, then the rearing plunging and bucking trying to get me off.

I am just not sure what the bone san will show that we dont already know???? Also are there some cases that are just not worth opperating on?? I just feel very lost as the moment.
 
I agree totally with Ditchjumper; even my vet does! KS is the new designer complaint because it's so easy to point the finger at a mechanical complaint than accept that possibly methods of training and learned behaviour could be the instigator. Have you noticed how it's become a common complaint since more people are concentrating on dressage rather than giving their horses an all rounder career of hunting, hacking, jumping and just having fun instead of being asked to work, in many cases, an unnatural outline for that particular horse? Of course you're going to get problems with the skeleton if it can't work in the way it was built and designed for.

To OP, no words of wisdom I'm afraid and I hope it comes right for you but would a thermal image be of use in your situation at all? It would be far cheaper than a bone scan and should pinpoint the 'hot' areas where the problems are to see what you are dealing with. There are several companies now but I believe this is one of the best. http://syncthermology.co.uk/

ETA: yes, sadly, there are some cases that aren't worth operating on but you have to hope yours isn't one of them although that by no means always means the end of the road. I've known of several that have been given a year or more off that have improved and when they're brought back to work they are literally re broken from scratch again, exactly as for a young horse and many make a full recovery with none of the earlier behavioural problems which triggered off the investigations to start with. However, insurance is a problem because it doesn't usually give you the option of giving them so much time which is why the KS op's are so 'popular' now.
 
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thank you for your comment. Thermal Imaging would be a good thing to look at. i am under not real time contratines as I am getting him home then I am going to think about everything and go from there so may give them a call to come out and image him.
I would love for him to have a rounded outlook on life. I can actually say that when i got him him gave him the time off and rebroke him myself and has been a good lad. I wanted to start jumping him and with this in mind upped his work to get him fit ( we are a roudn grey donkey :) ) and this is when it all started. I am heart broke as it is 2 years to the day I had have had him
 
Sorry to hear your bad news :( I had my tb xray'ed last month for ks, they found 2 vertebrae touching, he was booked in for op (after much haggling cos ins limit only £1000) I then received a phone call to say he had 6 touching AND arthritis in his spine :( He's now had op & we are in first week of box rest which he is not appreciating in the slightest. Dread to think what bill gonna be unless they aren't going to change price from first quote (wishful thinking me thinks!) Just hoping it all mends & he can start his ridden life again :)
 
Hmm, I suppose I'm in the old fuddy duddy camp (they never had those sort of problems in my day....), but I'm not sure I would put a horse through that kind of major surgery and most especially the recovery, which must be very painful.
 
chestnutmarelover said:
Sorry to hear your bad news :( I had my tb xray'ed last month for ks, they found 2 vertebrae touching, he was booked in for op (after much haggling cos ins limit only £1000) I then received a phone call to say he had 6 touching AND arthritis in his spine :( He's now had op & we are in first week of box rest which he is not appreciating in the slightest. Dread to think what bill gonna be unless they aren't going to change price from first quote (wishful thinking me thinks!) Just hoping it all mends & he can start his ridden life again :)
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OMG poor yuor poor pony!!! I am thinking that I am going to have the opp done just waiting fro the isurance company to get all the info from the vet to make a final decision.....definatley not going to have the bone scan as they are almost possitive that the KS is the problem
 
Cortez said:
Hmm, I suppose I'm in the old fuddy duddy camp (they never had those sort of problems in my day....), but I'm not sure I would put a horse through that kind of major surgery and most especially the recovery, which must be very painful.
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I fullly understand your comment. The surgery is done under sedation so no trama of the GA. As I understand from feedback from other owners and vets that the success rate is very good and he should return to full work. If he was older I agree I would not put him through it, he is only 8 and has his whole life ahead of him. Whatever happens he has home with me forever
 
I would do more investigating for the scan, presumably they have xrayed to ID the KS already - is that not enough? That said my horse does have a spine that the vet said in other would be a KS issues, but mine doesn't have any KS related issues.

On a brighter note (I know I have said this many times on here) my friends horse was operated on aged 8-9 I think for KS, and now 2-3 years later is competing at 2* level - I realise the hocks is another issue, but wanted to offer a positive story :)
 
{hugs}, because I know what it feels like.

Mine has just been diagnosed with KS. Why? Because he had an adverse reaction to sedalin and was pratting about when he was being shod. He has always been iffy about his back legs - hence the sedalin. He was in dire straits afterwards (couldn't walk - looked like wobblers/fractured pelvis/any other gruesome problem) and the vet x-rayed him along his back. No fracture but KS.

He has two points - just below the withers, and just behind where his saddle goes. I researched loads and there are a number of options, a couple here:

The Cottsequine ligament snip http://www.cottsequine.co.uk/wccms-resources/8/0/6/8/81642ebc-4aca-11e1-a685-0050568626ea.pdf and http://www.cottsequine.co.uk/about-us/recent-surgeries/standing-kissing-spines-operation.shtml is about £2000 and 12 weeks recovery (starting with lunging in week 2 or 3) (of course, you need to factor in transport to Wales and board/livery whilst there). Rossdales/Newmarkt/AWT does a spinal shave which is a bit more expensive and may take longer to rehab.

However, his x-rays were sent to Cambridge for assessment and the specialist there has suggested that given their position, it is probably not necessary to jump down the surgery route just yet. We have developed a schooling programme using the equiami (I will be blogging this at their request; you can use a pessoa), long-lining and pole and very low grid work. As soon as his injury (we suspect a pulled ligament in the sacroiliac joint) is better we'll get cracking. If he still has a bucking fit every time we canter that can't be put down to exuberance and a poorly fitting saddle, we might try steroid injections into the spine.

Sorry, that sounds a bit 'me, me, me' but I hope it reassures you there are options that won't necessarily break the bank.

Sorry I can't help with the hocks. Hugs again.
 
Thank you for your reply! I have seen those articles about pembrookeshire! Was thinking I may call them but I want to do this under my insruance and not sure what they would think about that?! Moose is quite bad I cant get on him at all anymore so I feel the only option to try is to opperate on him, I have spent the last couple of years building him up and now put the pressure on and he said "no" quite loudly I can say. Moose has two that are properly fused and a couple that are not :( all very sad.
 
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