Dieting & HANGRY ?

[jkitten]

Echoing what everyone has said, 1200 is not enough for you, please listen to your body and eat more!

You say you want to avoid disordered eating, frankly 'I'm going to ignore my body's cries of desperation in order to reach an arbitrary number on the scale a couple of months sooner than I would do if I ate enough to keep myself comfortable' is pretty classic disordered eating.

MFP is a great tool but it is just a tool, not your doctor. Please eat enough and realise that you will lose weight on ANY calorie deficit, it doesn't have to be one which causes you suffering like this.

 

[Winters100]

I feel for you. It is really hard to lose weight if you are not in the overweight category. I have the same problem, I need to stay at the lowest end of a healthy weight because of my back, but it is a constant struggle as I am a good-doer, and to keep to my ideal weight I can eat between 1200 and 1400 cal per day.

If you are really sure that this is something that you need to do for your health, and that it is not causing you a problem then I would have the following tips. Cut out ALL pointless calories, for example alcohol or juice. I also do not eat fruits, because they are rather high in sugar and calories, and they do not keep me full for long. I do however eat a LOT of vegetables. I always have some sort of vegetable based soup in the fridge, super easy to make with whatever you have in, and fills you up for very few calories when you are hungry. If I am really hungry and do not want to take in many more calories a small boiled egg with sliced tomato does the trick. High protein cottage cheese also helps, 1/2 a pot mixed with tomatoes and cucumber goes a long way for not too many calories. I keep a little bag of raw veggies to hand in case of getting really hungry when I am out. I also never eat after 7pm, and never have any sort of oatmeal or other breakfast cereals, as for some reason I gain weight with them no matter what else I do.

It is very hard if you have the sort of metabolism that means you have to do this to lose weight, as it is difficult to stick to long term. I would ask yourself if it is really necessary in your case. You said that you were previously eating 2500 calories, and are slim. Because of this I would recommend trying to do this more slowly, because otherwise it will be very tough to avoid gaining again. Could you cut to say 2000 calories for a few weeks and see how it goes? As you have been on 1200 for a while you will gain in the first days, but then you may continue to lose slowly. If this does not work cut it again, but in small increments, to avoid the yo-yo effect. When I am trying to lose I aim for maximum 1 kg a month (about 0.5 lb per week). If I lose more quickly than this then I just gain again very quickly.

I do accept that for some people a low calorie diet is the only thing that works, but for your sake I hope that you do not fall into this category. Also check with your doctor, mine is happy for me to follow this diet, and I am always careful to stay within a healthy BMI, albeit at the lowest end, but it is important to make sure that you are not compromising your health.

 

[HorsesRule2009]

The bmr on my fitness plan sets you ridiculous low it's advised against using it.
Most people use the James Smith bmr maybe try that?

Your better off starting on a much higher calorie budget and can the reduce down slightly If needed

 

[mini_b]

I feel for you. It is really hard to lose weight if you are not in the overweight category. I have the same problem, I need to stay at the lowest end of a healthy weight because of my back, but it is a constant struggle as I am a good-doer, and to keep to my ideal weight I can eat between 1200 and 1400 cal per day.

If you are really sure that this is something that you need to do for your health, and that it is not causing you a problem then I would have the following tips. Cut out ALL pointless calories, for example alcohol or juice. I also do not eat fruits, because they are rather high in sugar and calories, and they do not keep me full for long. I do however eat a LOT of vegetables. I always have some sort of vegetable based soup in the fridge, super easy to make with whatever you have in, and fills you up for very few calories when you are hungry. If I am really hungry and do not want to take in many more calories a small boiled egg with sliced tomato does the trick. High protein cottage cheese also helps, 1/2 a pot mixed with tomatoes and cucumber goes a long way for not too many calories. I keep a little bag of raw veggies to hand in case of getting really hungry when I am out. I also never eat after 7pm, and never have any sort of oatmeal or other breakfast cereals, as for some reason I gain weight with them no matter what else I do.

It is very hard if you have the sort of metabolism that means you have to do this to lose weight, as it is difficult to stick to long term. I would ask yourself if it is really necessary in your case. You said that you were previously eating 2500 calories, and are slim. Because of this I would recommend trying to do this more slowly, because otherwise it will be very tough to avoid gaining again. Could you cut to say 2000 calories for a few weeks and see how it goes? As you have been on 1200 for a while you will gain in the first days, but then you may continue to lose slowly. If this does not work cut it again, but in small increments, to avoid the yo-yo effect. When I am trying to lose I aim for maximum 1 kg a month (about 0.5 lb per week). If I lose more quickly than this then I just gain again very quickly.

I do accept that for some people a low calorie diet is the only thing that works, but for your sake I hope that you do not fall into this category. Also check with your doctor, mine is happy for me to follow this diet, and I am always careful to stay within a healthy BMI, albeit at the lowest end, but it is important to make sure that you are not compromising your health.

im eating similarly to you - I’m not overweight but again, as you need to stick to lower end which I’m now quite a bit over.
Are you hungry all the time or is this something that gets better?
If I’ve ever wanted to shed a pesky few lbs I’ve found that very low calorie then going back to “normal” has worked previously and I’ve not gained

This new normal was a bit OTT however and this is how I am where I am! Perhaps I’m slightly in panic mode somewhat

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

1200 calories a day will make you feel like total shit. You used to eat a poor, restricted diet, and you were thin. You improved your diet and put on weight. I know you're adamant this is not the case (and of course, I don't actually know you!) but in general if you out on weight from eating a normal amount of food, you were probably underweight to begin with.

I understand the fear of "but what if I keep putting on weight forever!!" but extreme restriction is rarely the answer. Do have a quick Google of "intuitive eating" xx

 

[Pearlsasinger]

It sounds to me as if you need more protein, try keeping some hard boiled eggs in the fridge. They are usually very satisfying and only about 80 calories each. Protein is normally more sustainably filling than carbs.

 

[Red-1]

I would wholeheartedly recommend Noom. They do start on 1,200 calories, but the app adds on more for exercise. It also gives good nutritional advice. I lost a shedload of weight, was exercising like mad, felt energised etc. I was surprised how little bread I could eat. 2 slices a day, when exercising. The app has worked for me.

I had to eat a stack of protein. Plus, not just a few veggies!

 

[Winters100]

im eating similarly to you - I’m not overweight but again, as you need to stick to lower end which I’m now quite a bit over.
Are you hungry all the time or is this something that gets better?
If I’ve ever wanted to shed a pesky few lbs I’ve found that very low calorie then going back to “normal” has worked previously and I’ve not gained

This new normal was a bit OTT however and this is how I am where I am! Perhaps I’m slightly in panic mode somewhat

You have started now, and I am sure that you will get rid of the extra pounds, but it is difficult, as if you are not overweight you lose much more slowly. You will also find that you do not have the same support as others trying to lose weight have. When I have to lose a little all I hear is 'go on, have one, you don't have to worry about your weight', but I know at what weight I have less pain and feel good, and as I am naturally quite greedy I can say that it is only because I worry about my weight that I am not overweight or obese.

As I said above first try slowly, because you will feel much better, and it is easier to stick to. If you really have to stick to the 1200 you will get used to it and not feel hungry all the time, but you will feel hungry every day at various points. I have several things that I know will help, big glass of water, herbal tea, even weirdly I eat a lot of raw broccoli, especially the thick stalk which is quite filling when peeled. I go to bed early to avoid late night hunger, and getting up to do something usually takes my mind off being hungry. You will also find it hard that you can really never have treats such as a glass of wine, because on 1200 calories you have to be very disciplined to keep a balanced diet. As others have said up your protein, but in doing this you must also make sure that you have adequate amounts of all food groups, as a high protein diet can be very dangerous if not managed correctly. Is there a possibility of seeing a good nutritionist? That helped me a lot with learning how to lose without feeling awful all the time and compromising my health.

I would also say listen to your body. If after some days you feel truly awful on this diet then you should take that as a sign that it is not enough, and up the calories. You should still lose, but more slowly. To me feeling hungry is normal, but feeling weak and irritable is not, so if that persists you will need to change something. I can say that I have good energy levels on this diet and feel very good, but in all honesty if I did not have an injury forcing me to stay at the lowest healthy weight then I think I would look better somewhere in the middle of the healthy range, and would probably not have to turn down every treat.

 

[mini_b]

You have started now, and I am sure that you will get rid of the extra pounds, but it is difficult, as if you are not overweight you lose much more slowly. You will also find that you do not have the same support as others trying to lose weight have. When I have to lose a little all I hear is 'go on, have one, you don't have to worry about your weight', but I know at what weight I have less pain and feel good, and as I am naturally quite greedy I can say that it is only because I worry about my weight that I am not overweight or obese.

As I said above first try slowly, because you will feel much better, and it is easier to stick to. If you really have to stick to the 1200 you will get used to it and not feel hungry all the time, but you will feel hungry every day at various points. I have several things that I know will help, big glass of water, herbal tea, even weirdly I eat a lot of raw broccoli, especially the thick stalk which is quite filling when peeled. I go to bed early to avoid late night hunger, and getting up to do something usually takes my mind off being hungry. You will also find it hard that you can really never have treats such as a glass of wine, because on 1200 calories you have to be very disciplined to keep a balanced diet. As others have said up your protein, but in doing this you must also make sure that you have adequate amounts of all food groups, as a high protein diet can be very dangerous if not managed correctly. Is there a possibility of seeing a good nutritionist? That helped me a lot with learning how to lose without feeling awful all the time and compromising my health.

I would also say listen to your body. If after some days you feel truly awful on this diet then you should take that as a sign that it is not enough, and up the calories. You should still lose, but more slowly. To me feeling hungry is normal, but feeling weak and irritable is not, so if that persists you will need to change something. I can say that I have good energy levels on this diet and feel very good, but in all honesty if I did not have an injury forcing me to stay at the lowest healthy weight then I think I would look better somewhere in the middle of the healthy range, and would probably not have to turn down every treat.

I’ve actually felt slightly better today. Maybe I’m getting over a “hump”

 

[[153312]]

i find mealtimes very stressful at the moment. I understand it’s a lifestyle change.
I’ve had some major dietary changes in last few months and I am fairly regimented in that I can stick to things like diets.

recently I’ve eaten the most/variety of different things I’ve ever eaten in my life, I enjoyed it so much I went a bit overboard and I need to rein it in and get it off. Then go back to eating these new different things in moderation.

If you're hungry, tired, and finding mealtimes stressful your body thinks you're starving it and something needs to change in the diet for any loss to be sustainable.
Probably you're eating far too little; so up your intake, up your movement (but move in a way you enjoy - there's no point forcing yourself to do 10k if you hate it, because once again it's about changes being sustainable) and drink more liquids. Water, green tea, ginger, cayenne pepper, cinnamon and exposure to moderate levels of cold all encourage activation of brown adipose tissue (which is where glucagon stores are broken down into glucose). Anything high fibre is good too, if your diet is lacking bulk/volume your metabolism can slow as well.

 

[AmyMay]

Just eat sensibly and properly ?

 

[mini_b]

Just eat sensibly and properly ?

thank you, I hadn’t thought of that. It’s not something I find particularly easy to do.

 

[Northern Hare]

What about starting your day with a decent portion of porridge which will help you feel full during the day? I appreciate it's not always popular, but I've just restarted on WW as they've got a new programme which I must admit it's really suiting me.

One of my "Free Foods" is porridge oats, so I gave it a try for breakfast, and it really has been a revelation to me!! Why didn't I try it before?? I use 40g of porridge oats and mix with water and cook in the microwave. I'm still feeling full at lunch time! ?

 

[ruth83]

How long were you vegetarian for previously?
I have no details on the science or how to deal with it, but I recall my cousin returning to eating meat after being veggie for some time. She did it because she was training hard and wanted to up her protein intake. She had a real struggle with it, putting on weight despite all her training and nutritional support. I remember a conversation about issues with veggies returning to meat eating, but I can't recall the details. If a lot of your protein intake is from meat, it might not be helping you as it should?

My only suggestion would be to speak to a nutritionist with an understanding of changing between veggie and omnivore diets?

 

[[59668]]

What about starting your day with a decent portion of porridge which will help you feel full during the day? I appreciate it's not always popular, but I've just restarted on WW as they've got a new programme which I must admit it's really suiting me.

One of my "Free Foods" is porridge oats, so I gave it a try for breakfast, and it really has been a revelation to me!! Why didn't I try it before?? I use 40g of porridge oats and mix with water and cook in the microwave. I'm still feeling full at lunch time! ?

I've just started on their new programme too and am really finding it is working for me.

 

[MrsMozart]

You've made a massive change to what you eat, quantities aside, so it's going to take a while for your body to adjust.

Seriously consider if you were the right weight before - take the emotion out of it and look at yourself objectively.

 

[Northern Hare]

I've just started on their new programme too and am really finding it is working for me.

Thanks TTT, like the OP I've used MFP in the past but even on 1200 cals and a decent amount of exercise I just wasn't losing any weight, but was getting very, very hungry. I had a PT and he recommended dropping to 1100 but still no loss. I've started on the new WW and with the inclusion of the porridge, I'm at last seeing some real progress which is great. I guess it's the fact that I'm not feeling so hungry all the time, and the combination of foods are suiting me much better! ?

 

[little_critter]

I don’t know enough about calories and required amounts to comment on that aspect but:
If you were a horse and your diet was changed as radically as yours has overnight, you wouldn’t be expected to feel perfectly ok. In fact you’d probably be on colic watch.
Maybe your new diet is correct (I don’t know). But maybe you should have switched to it more gradually to give your body time to adjust.
Would taking a small step back for a week or two help? Eat a mix of old diet and new diet as a transitional phase.
I’m no diet expert, just musing.

 

[Tiddlypom]

It's at least as much as what you eat, rather than how much you eat . Dieticians and diet doctors are (too many far too slowly) coming to that conclusion. 1200 cals really isn't that low for a short term diet, you can eat well on that allowance. Processed carbs will give you a blood sugar spike, which triggers an insulin spike in response which excessively mops up the blood sugar and shunts it into fat storage leaving you feeling weak and hangry, so avoid them.

Agree with the poster who feels better with porridge, but not the instant ready brek type, which comes into the processed food category. I make my porridge with coarse pincut oats, which are slow to digest and keeps blood sugar/insulin levels on a more even keel. It's ultra yum, too.

There have been studies done comparing the effect of breakfasts with an equal calorie count. Instant porridge (readybrek) vs traditional coarse porridge vs an egg omelette. The omelette (which had the lowest carb content ) came out much the best for keeping people feeling full and energised for longer, with the traditional porridge coming second and the instant porridge coming right down at the bottom - leaving people feeling hangry and weak again mid morning.

 

[I'm Dun]

I lost 4 stone 18 months ago and kept it off. I went down to 800 calories a day. Then would up it to 1200 calories for a couple of days then back to 800 again. The first 3 days were awful, and then I felt amazing. Dont get me wrong sometimes I was hungry and I had to be so disciplined, but I slept better, I had more energy and just felt good.

VLC diets are a thing, if done properly they do work and you dont gain the weight back if you increase your calories slowly.

 

[canteron]

Hey on a very similar journey to you - for various personal reasons trying for a BMI of below 20 !!

I am older than you and a veggie (but without boasting a brilliant nutritionally aware veggie cook)

It definitely harder at this BMI but I do a sort of intermittent fasting / 5:2 variant as this means I can have ‘fun’ days were maybe even see a glass of wine and even a slice of cake - but then I will have a day were I am very disciplined.

This works for me, I rarely feel hungry - often just a bit greedy - and physically feel much more energised and do a 1lb or so off a week.

The slog of a consistent 1200 cal life with no let out would make me miserable.

 

[Peglo]

I also don’t weigh myself. I have a high wasted skirt I put on now and again to see how tight it is. That way I can muscle up/tone up and I may be heavier but the skirt feels comfortable and I’m not worrying about what the scales say. If I put on fat it’s obvious as the skirt will let me know. ?
This works for me as even though I like putting on muscle I sometimes got hung up on the scales so even if I was progressing in the gym I could deflate that success by the number on the scales. Everyone is different and our body’s react differently but I’m sure you will figure out what works best for you.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Thanks TTT, like the OP I've used MFP in the past but even on 1200 cals and a decent amount of exercise I just wasn't losing any weight, but was getting very, very hungry. I had a PT and he recommended dropping to 1100 but still no loss. I've started on the new WW and with the inclusion of the porridge, I'm at last seeing some real progress which is great. I guess it's the fact that I'm not feeling so hungry all the time, and the combination of foods are suiting me much better! ?

One problem is that if you don't eat enough, your body goes into 'starvation mode' and won't allow you to lose weight, if it can possibly help it. Sometimes you need to eat more in order to be able to lose weight.

 

[mini_b]

Hey on a very similar journey to you - for various personal reasons trying for a BMI of below 20 !!

I am older than you and a veggie (but without boasting a brilliant nutritionally aware veggie cook)

It definitely harder at this BMI but I do a sort of intermittent fasting / 5:2 variant as this means I can have ‘fun’ days were maybe even see a glass of wine and even a slice of cake - but then I will have a day were I am very disciplined.

This works for me, I rarely feel hungry - often just a bit greedy - and physically feel much more energised and do a 1lb or so off a week.

The slog of a consistent 1200 cal life with no let out would make me miserable.

I used to unintentionally have a diet similar to 5:2 - this might be something to reconsider!

 

[I'm Dun]

One problem is that if you don't eat enough, your body goes into 'starvation mode' and won't allow you to lose weight, if it can possibly help it. Sometimes you need to eat more in order to be able to lose weight.

And yet VLC do work. I never get this nonsense about starvation mode. When people are genuinely starving they dont stay fat!

 

[jkitten]

And yet VLC do work. I never get this nonsense about starvation mode. When people are genuinely starving they dont stay fat!

Starvation mode is a legitimate thing, but it's something that only happens in very extreme circumstances (think war crimes or severe medical condition). It's not something almost anyone in the Western world will ever experience, and you're right, they will look like a walking skeleton.

What people often confuse for starvation mode is how the body deals with weight loss. Basically, after fat is used up, in the first instance the body will fill the now-empty fat cells up with water. That water can stay there for some time, up to six weeks if you're unlucky, so you could be eating at a deficit and your body burning fat accordingly, but it'll look like you're losing zero weight on the scale because your body is just replacing the fat with water. That's why it's important to just keep eating at a steady (but not extreme) deficit, knowing that your body can't do anything but shed weight when you're eating less than it burns. Eventually the body will let go of the water it is storing in the fat cells and then you'll see a big drop on the scales, which will feel sudden but it's actually not, rather it's the product of weeks or months of slow, steady work by you and your body.

The important thing is not to eat at too low a deficit, because apart from the discomfort, it will encourage your body to burn muscle as well as fat to keep going, which is obviously not desirable (apart from anything else, the more muscular you are the more calories you burn, even at rest!).

 

[Pearlsasinger]

And yet VLC do work. I never get this nonsense about starvation mode. When people are genuinely starving they dont stay fat!

No, of course they don't but their bodies don't allow them to lose weight as quickly as if they were over-eating and went on a weight-loss diet. The body shuts down all unnecessary functions, so burns fewer calories when there is a lack of available food

 

[[153312]]

And yet VLC do work. I never get this nonsense about starvation mode. When people are genuinely starving they dont stay fat!

It definitely happens. The issue with it is your body stays in it long after you've ditched the diet; restriction results in higher levels of ghrelin and cortisol so you're much more likely to regain the weight. Of course some people don't, but the differences are basically due to the body's ability to respond to those hormones, which is genetic.

 

[Burnttoast]

Peri-menopause (I'm assuming) has gifted me with a big appetite that I previously didn't have. I don't want to buy new clothes so I've been (on and off, depending on life) doing the 5:2, which seems to be working (losing about a pound a week, which seems sustainable). The first day is painful but after that surprisingly doable. I like to eat my 500 cals in the morning and then I'm ok for the rest of the day, plenty of peppermint tea/water if peckish later on. Otherwise I eat as normal.

 

[Tiddlypom]

It definitely happens. The issue with it is your body stays in it long after you've ditched the diet; restriction results in higher levels of ghrelin and cortisol so you're much more likely to regain the weight. Of course some people don't, but the differences are basically due to the body's ability to respond to those hormones, which is genetic.

I'll have to look it up, but recent studies show that it is not the case that people who have lost weight on VLC diets regain the weight more quickly than those who lost it slowly - infact the VLC lot get it off and keep it off better. The studies are detailed in Dr Michael Moseley's book The Fast 800.

"The myth about the body going into starvation mode was based on a study of a long term poor quality low calorie (1600 cals) mostly vegetarian diet given to already lean healthy individuals in WW2 - think they were a group of conscientious objectors, who no one had much sympathy for.

ETA to add

“Won’t my metabolism crash if I go on a rapid weight loss diet? Fear of going into ‘starvation mode’ is one of the reasons so many people think diets, particularly rapid weight loss diets, don’t work. This belief is based on the Minnesota Starvation Experiment, 22 a study carried out during World War Two in which slim young volunteers lived on a low-calorie diet (around 1500 calories a day) made up largely of turnips and potatoes. After six months on this very low-protein diet, when their body fat had fallen to less than 10%, their metabolic rate (the energy the body uses to keep itself going) crashed. This was an extreme situation. A more recent experiment on the effects of short-term calorie restriction, 23 produced very different results. In this experiment 11 healthy volunteers were asked to fast for 84 hours (just under four days). The researchers found that the volunteers’ metabolic rate went up while they were fasting. By day three it had risen, on average, by 14%. Whichever way you lose weight, fast or slow, your metabolism will slow down simply because you are now carrying less weight around. That’s why it is so important, as you lose weight, to remain active. What you eat as you lose weight is also critically important (see below).”

— The Fast 800: How to combine rapid weight loss and intermittent fasting for long-term health by Michael Mosley
https://amzn.eu/arFcqNF"