Difference with wilkie/beval and cartwheel (swivel) bits?

[frittSkritt]

Hello all!
Question for all you bitting experts out there. I have a thoroughbred gelding that I'm moving up to Preliminary (BE Novice level). I need to reassess his bitting for cross country as the slow twist copper Dr. Bristol I had him in for lower levels is a little too mild and it takes me a good while get him back before a fence!

In the past I've ridden him in a cheltenham gag, but it tends to back him off too much. In my research, I've found wilkie/beval bits are a popular choice, especially for those of us who aren't coordinated enough to use two reins on XC. However, I also found the wilkie's cousin, the Cartwheel, which has the mouthpiece attached to a center post rather than to the ring:

I also found it comes in all sorts of different ring options, most of which are akin to a three ring/Dutch gag:

We actually don't have any cartwheel bits over here in the U.S. -- they're all wilkies -- so I figured since all the sources for them are in the U.K., I'd ask you all!

My question is, how much of a difference does having the mouthpiece attached to the ring vs. a center post have? I read that the cartwheel has a better lateral action since the rings are flatter against the face, but it also appears to me that it has the slight lifting of a cheltenham gag since the mouth slides up and down the post, much like on rope gag cheeks.

Any advice would be appreciated! Thank you-

-KC

 

[Tnavas]

I would suggest that you try him in a Waterford snaffle. Though I personally don't like them I have a very experienced friend who thinks they are wonderful.

She does also say that if the horse is being a pain to stop, then plant one hand and tug firmly with the other - this then bumps the Waterford across the bars, makes the horse uncomfortable and then it has a healthy respect for this bit.

Sounds hard I know but if the horse is getting too strong then you need to ensure that you have brakes.

She also tells me that after the toough treatment you can generally ride them on a really soft contact.

 

[lucemoose]

It is a very neat action, I am not a fan of the multi ringed bits (dutch gags, bubble bits) as they end up being atrocious to turn in! I find these far nicer to turn in and with a less mechanical action on the poll. Why dont you try a universal gag? Neue Schule make them, or Cotswold Sport also. It may be a bit of a big jump down from a proper running gag to a loop ring snaffle!

 

[frittSkritt]

So the NS/Cotswold universal gag reminds me of a Dutch gag in its appearance, although the rings seem to be set slightly differently (the bottom ring being inset in the middle ring, and the top ring is angled)... do they behave the same way? (We're severely lacking in creative bit options over here!! We do have a cartwheel gag by Stubben, but the mouthpiece locks up by design and I've heard that many horses react "violently" to it. :eek3

 

[lucemoose]

The mechanics of the universal seem to work so much better! With the ring being offset the bit can move slightly further around, eliminating that horrid levered pull on the poll, and the lower ring set into the main ring also takes away a little of the pull of the Dutch gag type bits. I have several and rate them highly. You can ride with a contact albeit softly whereas the shanks of the Dutch gag create an uncomfortable contact in terms of strength.

 

[frittSkritt]

Thanks! I appreciate it. I'll try to see if I can find one to try here, since the only brands with the rings set like that are Herm Sprenger, Neue Schule, and Stubben. If I like it I might order one of the Jeffries or Cotswold knockoffs from your side of the pond to save some pennies. ;-)