Differnce between a German and an English hackamore....PLEASE!

[Spirit7]

Hi
I have a new horse who has been ridden in a german hackamore for the last year or so. I have ridden him in it and its fine, infact I would say he goes extremely well in it and even pushes his nose into it when tacking up!
My problem is I think it is very harsh and heavy (and I am so lighthanded with it as I am a little scared of the damage I can do with it) so I put him in a french link sweet iron and he goes reasonably well although he snatches the reins a lot (not any real change to his carrige- works in an outline easlily both ways), I have only used the frech link twice, the 2nd time I put vaseline on his mouth, the bit and the bit rings as I noticed he was sore on the outside corners of his mouth (not internal) but he still came in very sore. My assumption is his mouth is really really soft and I am now considering putting him back in the german hackamore to avoid any more discomfort for him.

Would I be better off with an english hackamore? i.e. less harsh so would I be less nervous of using it?

Sorry to sound wimpy but I really need a bit of advice!

 

[teddyt]

A question about the bit you used. Was it big enough? If not big enough it could rub, particularly if its a loose ring, which can pinch if too small. English hackamores have a shorter shank so less leverage than a german hackamore, so yes, they are less harsh. Also, the nose of an english one usually has a wool pad that is much wider than the rubber noseband of the german hackamore. This makes it milder as you are spreading the pressure over a larger area.
Just an idea - If you try a bit again you could wrap it in latex bandage. It costs about £5 for a roll. You cut off strips and wrap it around the bit and squish it together to stick. Replace it when needed. It acts as a cushion.

 

[Spirit7]

Hi Teddyt, thanks!!!! I thought no one had any answers at all"!!!

it was big enough even when I put rubber bit rings on......do you think I should keep trying for a bit or just get used to the hackmore?

I would love to hear more opinions.......

 

[teddyt]

Sometimes bit rings can rub, even though they are meant to help stop rubbing. Depends how soft they are, some are a bit plasticy. I personally would try persevering with the bit. If the skin is v soft it may just take time to harden up. Just try to do it progressively, such as just use bit for 20 minutes and then gradually increase thetime you use it. Keep an eye on the sores and use vaseline as you have.
I think there is a huge amount of leverage with hackamores. Leverage means you may only have a light contact but the pressure is multiplied. The longer the shank the more leverage i.e pressure. If he really cant get on with a bit you could have some lessons in the hackamore (english one better), always good to have guidance from the ground.

 

[adgetom]

keep going with hackamore he is obv happy in it so there is no point hurting his mouth with a bit.

 

[Weezy]

Germans are hard, English are soft. Personally I would always choose a German over an English, I prefer them 100 fold. Unless you want to do dressage, keep the hackamore

 

[Brandysnap]

Hi Spirit7,

May be worth someone with good experience having a look, also? So much confusing advice here, yet folks are trying to help!

We often get so worried about what bit/gadget, etc, we should try next. What a confusing world this marketing the latest thing can be...

I'd personally forget about hackamores (from whichever country!), and concentrate on getting your horse working happily and straight and forwards in a simple bit. That's your horsemanship.

Try a straight bar snaffle, together with a good trainer. You'd be amazed what happens when we stop giving em grief, and we learn to ride. I get my best results from a simple mullen snaffle. I've done BSJA, BE, + Riding Club Novice dressage (the last was the most scary!!) in a simple snaffle.

All bests, BS x

 

[Spirit7]

Thanks Brandysnap, but I actually am not confused, my horse likes a hackamore, I don't.......
The bit makes his mouth sore, I dont like hurting him.......he is well schooled as am I (ex-junior British BSJA champion many moons ago........)Therefore am happy to work with hackamore as he prefers it and it does not seem to stop him performing to an excellent leval IMO! Will def try the engligh one this weekend though, althouh I am now more comfortable using the German.
Once again thanks to your all for your opinions, they were well received.x

 

[Weezy]

[ QUOTE ]

We often get so worried about what bit/gadget, etc, we should try next. What a confusing world this marketing the latest thing can be...


[/ QUOTE ]

This made me giggle, horses have been ridden in bitless bridles for far longer than in bits...in fact, if we get down to it, bits really are a gadget and completely unnatural and unnecessary, aren't they...

 

[Spirit7]

Weezy.......100% in agreement, and would love a little more advice from you as you are obviously a real horsewoman (even though you don't use a real bit!) ;-)

Thanks again

 

[Tia]

With any curb bit, or bitless with shanks, the longer the shanks the slower the implementation time, the shorter the shank the quicker it comes into effect. However the longer the shanks, the more force available to you.

In essence, if you have good hands then the german hackamore is in fact a kinder bitless because the horse is given a gentler action and more time to react to the pressure because it comes on gradually. In harsh hands, it can inflict serious force. The English hackamore, on the other hand, gives an almost immediate action due to the shorter shanks obviously, however the amount of force it can give when in harsh hands is far less powerful than the action of a german.

I personally prefer the german hackamore.

 

[Brandysnap]

Hi Tia,

I'm with you! What you say makes sense.

(Tho i still have the question as to why a simple snaffle can't do? That's what my lot get ridden in - i work it so they all go happily in a straight bar. Saves changing bridle things!!)

And if things go wrong, well i blame my bad riding, + think, + work on it.

An old horse dealer, sadly no longer with us, always used to say 'nice and quietly'.

I hear those words whenever i + a horse start to fall out.

Invaluable words...

All bests, BS x

 

[Spirit7]

Brandysnap......."I'd personally forget about hackamores (from whichever country!), and concentrate on getting your horse working happily and straight and forwards in a simple bit. That's your horsemanship."

Sorry but how does that agree with Tia (quoted below).

"In essence, if you have good hands then the german hackamore is in fact a kinder bitless because the horse is given a gentler action and more time to react to the pressure because it comes on gradually. In harsh hands, it can inflict serious force. The English hackamore, on the other hand, gives an almost immediate action due to the shorter shanks obviously, however the amount of force it can give when in harsh hands is far less powerful than the action of a german.

I personally prefer the german hackamore."

I have come on here for general advice not to have someone constantly contradict themselves and cause confusion.

By the way a" simple snaffle" won't do as my horse is not happy in it and it causes him pain....Two vets have now advised to keep in a hackamore now, which brings me back to my original post!!!

I have bought an english one but prefer the german as I have very light hands.....now I just would like to know who manufactures a lightweight german hackamore? PLEASE!!!!

 

[nuffield]

German hackamore, if you use this ,as opposed to the english, then the horse will do dressage beautifully, always obeying your commands.
English hackamore, if you use this the horse will be more unruly but will charge across hunting fences with perfection.

 

[Tia]

I don't know about in the UK, but we can get lightweight Germans over here. There are a number of different kinds of nosebands on our Germans here and you go for whichever type/weight your horse prefers. I have 3 Germans - one has a rawhide noseband, one is metal, and the other is chain. The rawhide is the lightest one, and probably the most gentle, but still gives you the gradual lever action you sound like you are trying to get. I always only use a leather curb strap and not the chain that generally comes with them. Once again this makes the bitless lighter and less aggressive. All of my Germans are leather covered, however if you want to lessen the action further, then you can put sheepskin over the top.

If you are further interested, just ask and I can find you links to stores over here in North America which sell them. The cost will be cheaper but then you will have to factor in the shipping cost, so may still be a little cheaper, depending on what they are selling for in the UK.

 

[Weezy]

I used to have a plaited rawhide one which I adored, sadly it got stolen

The one I have now is rubber covered, presume metal under, I have a thick sheepskin cover on it, but it is very lightweight - they are deffo out there!

I use a chain, but a wide, thick link and not the nasty thin chain that tends to come with them.