Dilema- Unfair Dismisal

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JenTaz

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Right guys heres a dilema for you thankfully it is not for me but for a friend who will not be named at this point as she's not on here.

okay to start said friend has been unwell for almost a week, has struggled on to keep working at the yard, that she is currently doing nvqs at.

Unfortunately she got taken into hospital due to being unwell feeling dizzy, migranes and passing out, however the hospital couldnt find out what was wrong so she discharged herself and went home.

She has worked a few days since but has now got worse and has been unable to go to work and her boss has said that if she doesnt show face and put in a days work in the next two days she will lose her job, no matter if she is ill. Now i know this is unfair dismisal but as her being under 18 is there much that she can do, as obviously she has not planned to be ill and has tried as hard as possible to continue work but her health comes first and her mum has put her foot down.

sorry for it being so long and no doubt alot of spelling mistakes have a big bar of chocolate if you got this far.
 
if her mum/dad have household contents insurance with legal protection on it they will have access to a legal helpline who are very helpful, alternatively tell them to phone ACAS (phone number on the net) they are extremely helpful in all workplace dilemas.
 
Don't know the legalities of this situation but if she hasn't already she should go to her own doctor and if necessary get signed off. This would give more weight to any unfair dismissal claim. And if she is still feeling unwell he might want to do more tests.
 
Ok by the sounds of your post your friend is an apprentice. She is training at her yard to qualify into something, she is at college doing NVQs and therefore her training is an integral part of her qualifications. This is key.

She is also suffering from migranes, this could be a symptom of an underlying medical condition which the employer won't know about unless she seeks confirmation from the employee's doctor. To dismiss off the back of this could be risking a claim for Disability Discrimination.

Usually those employees with under 1 yrs service with their employer cannot claim unfair dismissal. As your friend is an apprentice and if the employer terminates her contract, your friend can claim breach of a fixed term contract, depriving her of qualifying and possible future loss until she finds another apprenticeship. Pregnant women and apprentices are the most protected employees under employment law. Employers cannot dismiss unless their business has literally burnt down.

If you friend is not an apprentice, and she less than 1 yrs service the employer can terminate anytime she likes giving the statutory minimum of 1 weeks notice (albeit at risk of discrimination claims if it turns out your friend has a serious medical condition).
 
well she discharged herself from hospital. (not a good move if actually sick as at least you are in the system) has her GP signed her off on the sick? under 18s tend to be not vvery strong, and could be tired (burning the candle at both ends) but not the employers fault. as an employee she has a duty to turn up to work unless sick (first 3 days unpaid then needs to be signed off by a GP) and if working with horses then slightly different. you need a RELIABLE groom, this isnt a typing pool! if not strong enough, good work ethic etc then give notice! dont expect the employer to fund the not quite right syndrome. and get her to drink more water.
 
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well she discharged herself from hospital. (not a good move if actually sick as at least you are in the system) has her GP signed her off on the sick? under 18s tend to be not vvery strong, and could be tired (burning the candle at both ends) but not the employers fault. as an employee she has a duty to turn up to work unless sick (first 3 days unpaid then needs to be signed off by a GP) and if working with horses then slightly different. you need a RELIABLE groom, this isnt a typing pool! if not strong enough, good work ethic etc then give notice! dont expect the employer to fund the not quite right syndrome. and get her to drink more water.

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This is not entirely accurate. The employee can self certify for 7 days. SSP (statutory Sick Pay) kicks in after the 4th consecutive day. After the 7 days, if the employee does not have a sick note then the employer can treat as unauthorised absence. This could lead to disciplinary action however would not warrant dismissal. As I said, if your friend is an apprentice she is well protected from dismissal.

Bet you can't guess what I do for a living!
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but as an employer!!! the under 18 s are the worst for calling in sick! and weather dependant! as an apprentice the SSP makes little difference, but the work ethic is the key question. especially in a practical job. cant tell horses in boxes 12 to 17 they arent getting fed as she has phoned in sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! get real. but the employment law covers the employee more than the employer! but the milkers will get short shift on my yard.
 
thanks for all your advice guys i'll pass it onto her but one thing is for sure she's never missed a day at work apart from this with being unwell, she only discharged herself from hospital to go back to work which she did as she couldnt afford to lose her job as her wages are paying for her horse. Unfortunately she's back in hospital but will be back at work on friday as she's got an exam
 
ofrcourseyoucan - the poor girl is now on her 2nd stint in hospital & she apparently doesn't get paid if she doesn't turn up. I think we can safely assume she is not a shirker. With your attitude I'm not surprised if you get bad staff.
 
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but as an employer!!! the under 18 s are the worst for calling in sick! and weather dependant! as an apprentice the SSP makes little difference, but the work ethic is the key question. especially in a practical job. cant tell horses in boxes 12 to 17 they arent getting fed as she has phoned in sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! get real. but the employment law covers the employee more than the employer! but the milkers will get short shift on my yard.

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Yep I employ over 60 people (not in horse industry) and you have to be so careful. The law is biased towards the employee but as an employer if you follow the rules you can dismiss someone for continued absence provided you have a policy that allows you to monitor time off. We operate the Bradford Scoring System, it is a very fair way of determining who is 'faking, Monday morning blues etc' but also gives a chance to pick up on employees who have genuine illness and should NOT be discriminated against.

We always have available cover staff (even if you need to use an agency this is a good thing to do)

Forgot to add - If you treat your staff badly then you will get high turnover so not good for business. I am proud to say we have had staff with us since opening (12+ years ago) in an industry that is renowned for high turnover. You get back from staff what you put in. Treat employees as you would wish to be treated. A friendly word usually gets better results than 2 large feet!!
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Ditto Sashpip.

The girl has been in hospital for flips sake!

No, one cannot tell a horse that he can't have his dinner because someone hasn't turned in, but you need to have contingency plans in place (unless you're going to start employing robots, and even they need planned maintenance and they break occassionaly).
 
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but as an employer!!! the under 18 s are the worst for calling in sick! and weather dependant! as an apprentice the SSP makes little difference, but the work ethic is the key question. especially in a practical job. cant tell horses in boxes 12 to 17 they arent getting fed as she has phoned in sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! get real. but the employment law covers the employee more than the employer! but the milkers will get short shift on my yard.

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Ohhhhh handbags!
 
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I would suggest that you ask her to refer to her 'contract of employment' which she should have received within 6 weeks of her employment.

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No. Contracts of employment can be issued at any time. Sometimes never. Its the Statement of Terms that should be issued within 8 weeks (or 2 months) of commencement of employment.
 
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I would suggest that you ask her to refer to her 'contract of employment' which she should have received within 6 weeks of her employment.

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No. Contracts of employment can be issued at any time. Sometimes never. Its the Statement of Terms that should be issued within 8 weeks (or 2 months) of commencement of employment.

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What's the difference?

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I would suggest that you ask her to refer to her 'contract of employment' which she should have received within 6 weeks of her employment.

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No. Contracts of employment can be issued at any time. Sometimes never. Its the Statement of Terms that should be issued within 8 weeks (or 2 months) of commencement of employment.

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What's the difference?

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Employers are not legally required to issue a CoE. This is a detailed document of everything agreed between the employer and the employee. SoT only provide the basic information such as pay, notice, job description etc. It does not cater for restrictive covenants or useful power tools for the employer unlike a CoE. The SoT has to be issued, under S.1 ERA, within 2 months of employment. Failing that, and the employee has a subsequent claim agains the employer, the absence of a SoT can be used as a rider for the larger claim. current damages are 4 weeks pay.
 
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Ta B
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We've only had people on short fixed-term contracts, or as associates through our company. It's interesting to know what we would need should we choose the permanent employee route
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No worries. Bare in mind that if you have a worker on a 4 successive fixed terms contracts they are deemed permenant employees. Beware of them also crossing the 1 yr mark as there is scope for unfair dismissal claims if you choose to terminate.
 
At the company I work for we have a strict contract as far as sickness goes.

We can have upto 14 days of sickness (which includes weekends even though I don't work weekends if I'm sick across a Fri and Mon) per year and/or upto 4 incidences of sick leave.

Any more than that, we'd get a first stage verbal warning. Further sick and then a second stage verbal and written, and then, potentially, the sack if further bouts of sick leave.

It's down to Management discretion, so yes, if I were in hospital for any length of time they'd probably not issue it. But it does hang over you rather if you're sick a lot for minor things, that you're going to get in trouble for it.
 
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