Dilemma over new horse

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happyhacking:)

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I'm taking on two mares week after next. They are 7&5 the 7 year old has been started and has had about 5 weeks training so far the 5 year old is unbroken. They at e coming to me on loan with view to buy though I am likely to buy them. The sticking point is that the owner wants first refusal on them for the next 5 years at the price I pay for them.

My intention is to bring the 7 year old into work as well as backing the 5 year old and bringing her on. Obviously this will increase their value significantly so would be unlikely to accept the same money back. I have no intention of selling either of them but would like to be in the position where I could if the need Should arise.

Can she really insist upon these conditions and would if it came to it stand up in court?
 
I would very much doubt it. Check with someone legal? We once sold a bit of land with a clause in it saying we had first option to buy it back, but it was at market value.
 
Not a chance I would agree to that :) you will be putting the hard work in, feeding them, clothing them and training them.

If she insists on a clause then you should insist it to be at market value.

Also make sure you write in your view to buy contract the value you agree to pay of what they are worth now, don't want her inflating the costs at the end of the loan period
 
Wouldn't have thought that would stand up in Court. Sounds as if she is hoping to profit from all your hard work! How long is the lwvtb period? I would recommend the contract be scrutinised very carefully by a high powered equine lawyer!
 
I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole!

I would have a legal agreement drawn up that the horses are valued at X amount. Should, during the next 5 years you decide to sell then the ex owner gets 5% of anything valued over that amount.
Horse valued at £500 sold for £10,000 so ex would get £500 as the original value and £475 as the 5%
 
She's not daft is she!

I think i'd tell her you're not agreeing to anything. She'll be lucky to find any loaner, let alone one who'll put a couple of years of work into those horses. Horses are very hard to home at this time of year - let her keep them a bit longer while she considers her daft proposal!
 
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not sure wether it would stand up from a legal point of view or not, but I would want legal documants ready and written up before i took them on lwtb, once they were written up there could be no debate about what had been agreed
 
I sold my last horse saying I was to have first refusal but she sold him 6 months later to a different lady at her yard and then he was passed on again (I am now intouch with his owner who has him for life). So no, it doesn't count for anything.
 
No I wouldn't do this. Yes she can pay for them what you paid, but she has to cover all livery fees, expensises and your time producing them. I would then present her for a bill for a few grand more!
 
Offer to put first refusal clause in, but at market value. This is fair to both of you. To give her fr at original price is taking mick.
 
Thanks guys I shall try to get her to agree to market value. She says she's trying to do it to prevent me from selling them on for profit but IMO she shouldn't have that much say in what happens to them post selling them to me.
 
Once they are sold they are sold......she has no claim whatsoever on them once you hand over the money and they become your property.
IF you sell in time she can buy them back at what they are then worth or you can sell them to someone else.
 
happyhacking:) said:
Thanks guys I shall try to get her to agree to market value. She says she's trying to do it to prevent me from selling them on for profit but IMO she shouldn't have that much say in what happens to them post selling them to me.
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You're absolutely right, she has no rights at all once she's sold them to you so the clause of buy back should be down in contract as either MV or to cover your costs for the whole time you have them. Cheeky mare indeed. Agree with Wheels to write into contract what you are paying for them now, don't let her suddenly see how well they're going and increase their price then to you.
Get it all down in black and white and only sign when you're happy.

Or you could do what friend and I are doing; she has my filly on full loan (I still pay all the insurance), we decided on a base price and if she's sold later, I get the base price then we split in half anything else in respect of the work she will have put in. That way she has a decent type of horse 'given' to her to do with as she sees fit and also has the bonus of getting some money back (if all goes to plan) at the end of it which doesn't happen very often with loans.
 
If you are having them on LWVTB make sure you a) get a price in writing before you do any real work with them, b) buy them as soon as you can if you want them, someone who tries to put restrictions on what you can do for 5 years may change their mind about selling if the horses start to look good once you work on them.
Until they are paid for she can have them back, if it suits her, you would have put in time and money that she obviously has not done.

Once they are yours she will have no right to buy them back but it would be fair to offer them at market value if you do need to sell. I think that someone who has not done anything to improve their horses then tries to stop the new owner making a profit, or at least getting a fair price, is totally unrealistic if they want to get good money they should put in the work themselves or spend money to get the job done professionally.
 
I would agree with you once sold they are sold but I guess as a compromise first refusal at Market value would be fair. I don't know your circumstances but I think I would be forgetting the LWVTB and just buying them outright or you could find yourself either losing them both in the loan period or being expected to pay a lot more for YOUR hardwork. I don't know if this is correct but I have heard that loan agreements rarely stand up in court and you could end up spending a fortune contesting it. Sorry to cause further worry but if it's an option I would go for a straight buy.
 
Simply refuse to sign it I was presented with this once when I went to pick up a new horse .
I simply said I do not intend to sell this horse but if I do I am happy to offer you first chance of buying at a price of my choosing but its not fair that should I have to sell it I would receive no benefit from the work I have done to produce it , I had my chq in my hand they backed down and I signed to say I would offer them first chance to buy at a price of my choosing .
I handed over my chq and left.
It's harder for you I think you need to stand firm on this there's no way that I would be producing too late started and therefore potentially more difficult projects knowing that if I did have to sell it was at the price I bought them at if you can't fix it be prepared to walk away.
 
Please make sure you agree a price with her now, as you may otherwise find you end up paying for all the work you have put in. This happened to us, so it really does happen. I would have a contract saying she has first refusal at market value.
 
You're not in Lincolnshire are you - I had a run in with a very odd lady and her mares who were of the same age who came sakign for help then turned very nasty when I disagreed with her over very minor things (and I discovered she had a local reputation) PM me if you like
 
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