Dilemna, dangerous horse? *long, sorry* Help/opinions....

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KatB

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On behalf of a friend. She has a lovely little 9yr old TB ex racer. Super little horse, she PN evented it for 2 seasons with some half decent results. However, it has always been a bit footy, but just put it down to being a flat footed TB. Never lame and had excellent farrier looking after it.

Moved yards, and ws a bit down and quiet, had blood tests and found had very low white blood cell count, so thought maybe low level virus. Was taken out of work and treated according to vets instructions.

Brought back into work, and the horse was crazy. Mental walking on the roads, just generally throwing itself about and bucking. Did it when started jumping aswell, and as a result more investigations were carried out as thought maybe due to concussion causing pain.

Horse was buted up for a week, bucking and throwing about stopped. Jumped nicely and was generally back to "old" horse. So took back off bute, nerve blocked and as a result MRI scanned and found concussive injury in foot due to being raced early on.

Remedial shoes have been ftted and all has been fine, started walk work on surface, no probs. Taken off bute 10 days ago, and horse is again throwing itself about uncontrollable, to the point is scaring v.v.experienced owner. Cant be down to concussion as shoes have taken care of that and only working on a nice surface.

Owner is at a serious loss at what to do next. Has anyone else had any experience of similar behaviour? Any ideas/thoughts on where to go next?
 
sorry no but horse obviously in alot of pain,only other route is alot more tests in alot more areas maybe??
Hope your friends vets get to the route of the problem sooner rather than later,poor little mite
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fingers crossed for your friend
 
I know one that would Bronk in any situation for any reason and he turned out to have poor foot conformation leading to concussion at the pastern and coffin joints. He was trimmed and treated with rest remedial work ets and is now fine but is still capable of the odd bronk and still does I think just because he can. Is it possible that the horse is still "feeling" pain, could there be further concussion to shoulders? Sorry bit of a stab in the dark there
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On the extreme, I do know the story of a horse that was on my yard many many years ago that would repeatedly throw itself about, frequently on the floor and frequently on top or its rider. This was before back people, scans, behaviourists etc. It was schooled, it was box rested, it was turned away, it was beaten you name it, it was tried and then it reared one last time going over. The owner decided to have it PTS declaring it was dangerous, she also decided to have a post mortem done at her cost and they discovered a massive brain tumour, which accounted for all the "behaviour"
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I'd get everything checked out if it were mine, back, saddle teeth etc and maybe worth a thought about kissing spines??
 
Yep Teeth, back etc etc have been checked. Vet has been out numerous times.

Boss, I mentioned kissing spine too. However, when had tests etc only got better when they nerve blocked below the coffin joint? Was wandering if that wasnt the major prob....
 
I have a 7 yr old ex racer with flat feet.He has had a multitude of problems and can throw himself about well too.He has had two lots of concussion in his front legs the latest being a splint he had cannon bone bruise last year .I have him in natural balance shoes at the moment because his heels were bruised.He recently had hock surgery and exercising the hock caused him to be heavy at the front the vet thought he had blown a suspensory ligament but it was a splint.They show pain very easily.Ive made up my mind to excercise on soft surfaces I never trot on the road anyway and will probably limit hacking in the future because of these tendencies.We have just had a full set of xrays and scans done because of ongoing problems.The other thing I will consider doing to keep him sound is limit his turnout in terms of space he can go loopy in the field and injure himself .Hope this helps .
 
Mmm. This might sound silly but it might be to do with remembering that it hurt last time? I had a horse with a bad back who let me know about it by throwing me off a lot and even after he was better, it took about a month of just sitting tight before he worked out that it no longer hurt. Also, it can take a couple of shoeing before the feet get better. Might be worth seeing how it goes? Easier said than done, I know!
 
Thanks cellie, he isnt even being turned out at the mo because the ground is too hard. HE is being grazed in hand for a couple of hours a day, and only walked on a soft surface. He has egg bar shoes with special pads on at teh mo on the advise of farrier/vet.
 
Don't let the vets give up looking for the problem or let anyone tell your friend the horse is remembering pain. Sue Dyson has got to the bottom of two of my horses' problems - both of which puzzled my vets. She's extremely thorough and if something's wrong she'll find it.
 
Thanks, had forgotten about her. Friend is down south and horse has been dealt with by Liphook, but suppose would be worth a try...
 
Def reccomend another hospital!! ;-)

Firstly, did the horse drop off a lot of muscle when he had the time off? When they have a virus, and they drop muscle, that is when Kissing spine or any other back related or sacrolliliac problem will really show itself.
 
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Thanks, had forgotten about her. Friend is down south and horse has been dealt with by Liphook, but suppose would be worth a try...

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Sue diagnosed Grinder, she wrote him off within 5 mins of him being there!!
 
Hi, I am in exactly the same situation as your friend. My extremely safe boy started rearing and trying to bronc me off on the road. The physio at rossdales came out and referred me for tests as she said he was in a lot of pain 8/10 in his back and thought that it wasn't just muscular. Cue taking him to Rossdales for tests, after all the trotting up etc. he became very lame so they started from the feet upwards, he was nerve blocked from the navicular bursar (sp) up to his fetlocks and I think further, not necessarily in that order. he also had xrays of feet, back and neck and also bone scans and ultrasound, all that was thrown up was:
Very thin soles - he is having remedial farriery - much sounder
They found low grade arthritis in his neck
The muscle that lies along the spine has a 'hole' in it so he is currently having shock wave for it.
He is a totally different horse still and I don't think he is happy, he is fine not being ridden whilst the weather is fine but come winter he will be even more uncontrolable handling. The vets are gutted that they cannot find anything more sinister so that they can put it right but I don't know what to do for the best. The way he is on the ground is now his lovely quiet self so after the last scans in 6 weeks I cannot see that he will be better ridden and I am too scared of him now to try. I love this horse so much but I am wondering whether it is right to keep him going if he wont be happy in the long term. Sorry for hijaking (sp) but I can see where your friend is coming from and I guess I would like others thoughs too.
 
I had one in for re-schooling this year that was exhibiting similar problems to your friends horse. Owner was adamant that its back etc were fine and they had been checked out (which they had). I managed to get her to take it to the vets and turned out that he had arthirits in the hock. The decision was made to have the horse PTS as it was the kindest thing to do.
Might be worth getting the vet to explore other areas of possibility as I was convinced this issue was in the back, but it turned out to be the hock.....
 
He's and odd little horse as has a very round back and barrell, so never really looks poor! However, he did drop off a bit as would be expected with having nearly a year off doing not alot! I did think kissing spine, and have mentioned it to her as he is quite stiff in general. Will speak to her again, her vet is sleeping on it too!
 
Definitely would agree with KVS - Sue Dyson is great. I'd be wanting a second opinion on the MRI. Sounds similar to how my TB was behaving and his MRI showed concussion AND collateral ligament damage. His behaviour took awhile to settle when i started riding because he did remember the pain but I'd be wanting a second opinion. Have you lunged him? Does he bronc then?
 
Yeah will mention it to her. I dont know if she has lunged him, I think it is strictly gentle walking in a straight line. He was dangerous to lunge before the latest diagnosis....
 
I would def get a second opinion from a different vets. I know Liphook are ment to be the best (they are my local vets) but I also know 4 horses recently with similar mysterious problems where Liphook have not found a diagnosis despite some horrendously expensive tests and owners are still in the dark. Its always good to get a 2nd opinion anyway and may also put the owners mind at rest.
 
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I had one in for re-schooling this year that was exhibiting similar problems to your friends horse. Owner was adamant that its back etc were fine and they had been checked out (which they had). I managed to get her to take it to the vets and turned out that he had arthirits in the hock. The decision was made to have the horse PTS as it was the kindest thing to do.
Might be worth getting the vet to explore other areas of possibility as I was convinced this issue was in the back, but it turned out to be the hock.....

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I had a similar sounding one in to school and his problem turned out to have significant arthritis in his neck and poll.

During his work up they blocked his neck (my suggestion, actually - he trotted up etc, fine and the vet did it to humour me, I suspect) and it was amazing to see the change in him even just standing there under sedation. Poor b***er.
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It must have been hellish for him, being ridden. Part of the problem was he was fabulous - Olympic quality - so loss of movement wasn't as obvious a clue although it had always bothered me because I'd known him as a youngster and always wondered why he didn't move as well as he should have later on.

The owners wanted to go on with him so we treated his neck and I will agree he was MUCH better although neither the vet nor I could see much long term hope. The people, however, disagreed and took him away when he was going sweetly, sent him to a sales barn (like a dealer) and sold him to someone without disclosing his history!!!

Last I hear he'd hurt the woman badly. I honestly hope someone did the poor horse a favour and had him pts and didn't just send his gorgeous self off for someone else to have a disaster with.
 
An oldo school friend of mine had a horse many years back that exhibited this sort of behaviour (I think) just flipped out. I wasn't really in a lot of contact with my friend but i heard they discovered it head some sort of degenerative bones disease in it is legs (I think along the lines of osteoporosis type condition) so it was in considerable pain when asked to do anything more than a walk i believe.

I assume whoever sold it to her must have had it drugged up at the time and I just think that's disgusting
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. I don't actually know what happened to the poor thing, I assume my friend had it put down.
 
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