Disappointed with new saddle wwyd

Kizzy2004

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 October 2010
Messages
257
Location
New Forest
I ordered a new jump saddle which was fitted yesterday but what I ordered was not what was delivered.

The saddle fitter is very good and used them for a while and they always do a good job.

I ordered a branded saddle however what was delivered although made by the branded company (have to take the word of the saddler on this as nothing showing on the saddle) however it is badged under the saddle fitters company name. They never said they were going to do this. When I raised it last night they said it makes it cheaper but didn’t say how much. This saddle delivered still costs £1,900 so not cheap.

The saddle is very nice and fits but I’m concerned that if I needed to sell the saddle for any reason it has no real value as it’s not a branded saddle.

I’m going to ask the saddler what the difference in is price but am I right to be a big annoyed and concerned around re-selling if I needed to?

Views appreciated
 

ihatework

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 September 2004
Messages
19,698
Completely right to be annoyed.
A local saddlers brand will never sell as well as a well recognised brand (even if equal in quality).
If you are to proceed with this saddle I would want, in writing, a minimum buy back price from the saddler selling it to you in case you ever want to sell in future.
 

ester

Not slacking-multitasking
Joined
31 December 2008
Messages
58,200
Location
Cambridge
This happens a fair bit, re. resells I don't think it's an issue selling it as a rebadged ideal or whatever it is with regards to fitting (albeit the saddler rebadging it might have slightly different re leather quality/spec).

They definitely should have mentioned it though.
 

AShetlandBitMeOnce

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 January 2015
Messages
3,655
Location
West Sussex
I wouldn't want to return the saddle as if it fits you both and you're happy with it then you have hit gold dust.

I would however query the price. If they have intentionally promised you 'x' and delivered 'y' then you have a point. However, an unbranded saddle of good quality can still be worth that much if it is well made, and it will be marked up from a saddler - nothing will be worth resale what you bought it for from a saddler. I bought mine for £650 and sold it a year later for £220, it hurt I have to admit!

Have a good look over all written correspondence from them re: what it is you were buying and query where it doesn't match, rather than saying 'it's not worth it' which is more unquantifiable.
 

Kizzy2004

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 October 2010
Messages
257
Location
New Forest
Thanks, that’s where I’m on the fence a bit as it fits and it is a nice saddle. I completely understand that a saddle value drops as soon as you ride in it but my concern would be how much of a difference on a resell between a branded and unbranded saddle. I guess I’ll get an idea of that when I ask what the difference in price is between the saddle I actually ordered and the one that was delivered.

I wouldn't want to return the saddle as if it fits you both and you're happy with it then you have hit gold dust.

I would however query the price. If they have intentionally promised you 'x' and delivered 'y' then you have a point. However, an unbranded saddle of good quality can still be worth that much if it is well made, and it will be marked up from a saddler - nothing will be worth resale what you bought it for from a saddler. I bought mine for £650 and sold it a year later for £220, it hurt I have to admit!

Have a good look over all written correspondence from them re: what it is you were buying and query where it doesn't match, rather than saying 'it's not worth it' which is more unquantifiable.
 

AShetlandBitMeOnce

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 January 2015
Messages
3,655
Location
West Sussex
Thanks, that’s where I’m on the fence a bit as it fits and it is a nice saddle. I completely understand that a saddle value drops as soon as you ride in it but my concern would be how much of a difference on a resell between a branded and unbranded saddle. I guess I’ll get an idea of that when I ask what the difference in price is between the saddle I actually ordered and the one that was delivered.
The difference in resell for a branded and non-branded is huge. The bit where you said between what I ordered and what I was delivered is instrumental. It is not acceptable for there to be any difference at all. I had wondered whether they maybe said something like 'fits like an Isabel Werth' rather than 'Bought: an Isabel Werth'. The first you wouldn't have any comeback, the second you would.
 

Kizzy2004

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 October 2010
Messages
257
Location
New Forest
I never even knew the saddler had saddles made under their own name until last night. The saddle I originally tried in March was the branded saddle but it was brown and I wanted black so I asked for the same saddle but in black. There was never any mention of doing it under their name instead hence why I was expecting the branded saddle I ordered.

The difference in resell for a branded and non-branded is huge. The bit where you said between what I ordered and what I was delivered is instrumental. It is not acceptable for there to be any difference at all. I had wondered whether they maybe said something like 'fits like an Isabel Werth' rather than 'Bought: an Isabel Werth'. The first you wouldn't have any comeback, the second you would.
 

Baywonder

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 November 2018
Messages
2,625
I am not surprised you are (very rightly) annoyed about this.

You have asked for a branded saddle, and that is not what you were supplied with. When it comes to re-sale value, branded saddles will always go for more money than unbranded ones.

Also, new branded saddles will come with a manufacturers warranty. As your saddle only has your fitters name on it, if anything happens to your fitter and / or their company, you will have no come-back if there is any defect with the saddle.

You are well within your rights to ask for what you originally ordered!
 

Mrs Jingle

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 September 2009
Messages
2,923
I had identical happen to me. Saddler came out and fitted a named saddle, I chose the style of the one I wanted and was told it would be ordered in from the UK for me. After a few weeks she came back with a very similar new saddle and it did fit, but no makers name on it at all. She assured me it was the same saddle as the original I tried and was made by the same manufacturer so would be a little 'cheaper' for me, I asked how much cheaper...€50 on a £1200 new but unbranded saddle !!!

I was very cross and said she could take it away again as should I ever want to sell it , even allowing for normal depreciation I would lose hundreds on it. And prospective buyers would not swallow me trying to convince them it was in fact the well known branded saddle but without any branding! She eventually sold it to me at half the price for just 600 sterling. I suspect in this case that supposedly qualified and reputable saddler was really trying to pull a fast one.:mad:

Luckily things have changed now in Ireland and we have at least two very good and very honest qualified saddle fitters and sellers.
 

Kizzy2004

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 October 2010
Messages
257
Location
New Forest
Thanks, very good point in regards to the warranty on the saddle. I don’t think the saddler is going anywhere anytime soon but they are approaching retirement age so I’m concerned if I needed to sell in 3/4 years I’d be stuffed.

I am not surprised you are (very rightly) annoyed about this.

You have asked for a branded saddle, and that is not what you were supplied with. When it comes to re-sale value, branded saddles will always go for more money than unbranded ones.

Also, new branded saddles will come with a manufacturers warranty. As your saddle only has your fitters name on it, if anything happens to your fitter and / or their company, you will have no come-back if there is any defect with the saddle.

You are well within your rights to ask for what you originally ordered!
 

Kizzy2004

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 October 2010
Messages
257
Location
New Forest
Thanks this is my concern that I have nothing to say who originally made the saddle and I’d have to rely on the fitter to sell on for me.

I had identical happen to me. Saddler came out and fitted a named saddle, I chose the style of the one I wanted and was told it would be ordered in from the UK for me. After a few weeks she came back with a very similar new saddle and it did fit, but no makers name on it at all. She assured me it was the same saddle as the original I tried and was made by the same manufacturer so would be a little 'cheaper' for me, I asked how much cheaper...€50 on a £1200 new but unbranded saddle !!!

I was very cross and said she could take it away again as should I ever want to sell it , even allowing for normal depreciation I would lose hundreds on it. And prospective buyers would not swallow me trying to convince them it was in fact the well known branded saddle but without any branding! She eventually sold it to me at half the price for just 600 sterling. I suspect in this case that supposedly qualified and reputable saddler was really trying to pull a fast one.:mad:

Luckily things have changed now in Ireland and we have at least two very good and very honest qualified saddle fitters and sellers.
 

SOS

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 February 2016
Messages
1,260
I too would be annoyed as it’s a decent amount of money, you may not get nearly as much back as it’s unbranded.

Do you have any reciept, invoice or notes regarding the order you placed in March? I understand if not I’ve never had one from a saddler (albeit buying second hand saddles).
 

Renvers

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 May 2009
Messages
1,037
It does happen, I have had a rebadged one myself and know others who have also had that. However we were all told in advance and it was well stated on the saddler's website about specific saddles.

You have spent a lot of money to get something that doesn't fit with your expectations, you should definitely speak to your saddler about it. If you are worried about depreciation and reselling the badge will matter to most buyers as it will (rightly or wrongly) give people an idea of what they are getting.
 

sbloom

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 September 2011
Messages
7,468
Location
Suffolk
We had a trade in issue, someone said they had two Ideal saddles to trade in, when I got there they were Southam Saddles, not the same at all, and not as valuable. Made it very difficult for us, we honoured the offer I think in the end but they're NOT worth as much.

These are all rebadged saddles on the whole, made by the same workshops, so not "fits like", they are identical, but it still massively affects resale.
 

Kizzy2004

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 October 2010
Messages
257
Location
New Forest
They wrote what I ordered on the receipt as I brought a new dressage saddle from them in March. Will dig it out and have a look.

I too would be annoyed as it’s a decent amount of money, you may not get nearly as much back as it’s unbranded.

Do you have any reciept, invoice or notes regarding the order you placed in March? I understand if not I’ve never had one from a saddler (albeit buying second hand saddles).
 

Birker2020

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 January 2021
Messages
4,413
I'd be very cautious.

Not related to your issues but just to show you how saddle companies can 'cheat'. I won a made to measure saddle once in a competition, a £2.2K saddle. Excellent brand name that everyone's heard of.

Turned out that although the saddle was revolutionary as you could heat the carbon fibre tree to alter the fit, it transpired that the saddle they'd given me was a prototype and worthless due to the glue around the tree melting when the tree was heated. So useless in other words and why the procedure was never carried out when it clearly didn't fit my horse.

I tried to get my money back (apparently you have the same rights as having won something as you do if you buy it) but the company had gone bust.
 

honetpot

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 July 2010
Messages
8,103
Location
Cambridgeshire
In the old days, saddlers would buy from Walsall and badge them as theirs, as they were mass produced, and therefore cheaper than making one in the workshop, so they could sell a cheaper product, I think it's a bit of a hangover from those days. If you bought a branded saddle, and when you're looking second hand the brand is a huge factor, I would want at least some proof and a receipt to prove it was an X saddle. If they didn't make it, and they then cease trading it's going to get any sort of after sales service.
I have a lovely English made/leather GP saddle, the saddle badge is of some unknown saddler therefore its worth at least £200 less than a comparable Ideal saddle, which probably came out of the same workshop. I would love to know what percentage of saddlers actually make the saddles they sell, I bet it's not a lot and the price would have to be huge to make it worthwhile.
 

sbloom

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 September 2011
Messages
7,468
Location
Suffolk
I'd be very cautious.

Not related to your issues but just to show you how saddle companies can 'cheat'. I won a made to measure saddle once in a competition, a £2.2K saddle. Excellent brand name that everyone's heard of.

Turned out that although the saddle was revolutionary as you could heat the carbon fibre tree to alter the fit, it transpired that the saddle they'd given me was a prototype and worthless due to the glue around the tree melting when the tree was heated. So useless in other words and why the procedure was never carried out when it clearly didn't fit my horse.

I tried to get my money back (apparently you have the same rights as having won something as you do if you buy it) but the company had gone bust.
I remember it well, I didn't realise it was a prototype, shocking. And such a shame the company that bought them didn't take on the obligation, most disappointing.

I have a lovely English made/leather GP saddle, the saddle badge is of some unknown saddler therefore its worth at least £200 less than a comparable Ideal saddle, which probably came out of the same workshop. I would love to know what percentage of saddlers actually make the saddles they sell, I bet it's not a lot and the price would have to be huge to make it worthwhile.
Brands vary massively. The big brands mostly own their own workshops as it's the only way to be sure of margins. The two brands I fit don't own their workshops but work with dedicated workshops long term and do their best to stop saddles being copied or rebadged. Many local saddle fitters want to offer "bespoke" saddles and have big, or small, workshops make them up for them. Some small to medium brands switch manufacturers regularly - sometimes for good reason, but I do know of some where the brand owes money and can't get the saddle so switches! Having a different workshop, even a different saddler, make a saddle can affect hugely how it fits. It's always worth asking what the set up is for the brand you're interested in. Keeping quality up, consistency good, and building a long term relationship is the best for everyone really, but can cost more than switching.
 

ester

Not slacking-multitasking
Joined
31 December 2008
Messages
58,200
Location
Cambridge
I would like to say they aren't always worse in terms of quality even though they might have less of a market second hand. I did some digging for someone selling last week and via a contact learned that said saddler usually had better spec leather etc on theirs than the standard branded options.
 

Foxglove

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 April 2007
Messages
312
Location
Devon
I have a saddler badged Ideal Impala and as Ester as mentioned, the quality is superior to that of a standard Ideal.

In my case I knew exactly what I was buying and my saddler is completely upfront about the origin of the saddle; and to be quite honest the fancy stitch work of her own branding on the saddle does rather give it away!!

I think the difficulty here is that OP has ended up with something that was not what was expected and unless the saddler is very well known in the local area and there is a strong second hand market for their saddles locally, there will be a difference in resale value.

I think if it were me and I was happy with the saddle and the fit I would try to negotiate either a further discount to reflect the % drop in potential future resale or get them to agree a guaranteed buy back price that is in line with the age of the saddle at resale. My preference would be the former (a bird in the hand and all of that) just in case the saddler ceased trading before you wanted to sell it.
 

Kizzy2004

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 October 2010
Messages
257
Location
New Forest
It’s a really nice saddle and the quality is very good. Saddler is well known in the area but I’ve had horse 30+ years and I only found out last night they made saddles (rebadged) under their own name so that’s not what they’re really known for, plus it limits the market quite a lot. I don’t have any intention of selling the saddle and the horse it was brought for is young but as we all know anything could happened and things like saddles aren’t really interchangeable between horses so no guarantee it would fit something else so would like to have something that is reasonably sellable.
 

Kizzy2004

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 October 2010
Messages
257
Location
New Forest
Thanks. Fortunately I haven’t actually paid for the saddle yet. Fitter knew last night I was a bit put off and as I had a xc lesson this morning they told me to have a good ride in it to make sure I was 100% happy but obviously not mark it in any way if I wanted to return it.

I would either reject it or ask for a substantial discount, but I wound't dally, as I suspect you could have been held to accept the item last night.
 

Ossy2

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 October 2018
Messages
300
The question here is have you been delivered what you ordered, so what does your receipt say you have ordered? have you looked at what that branded saddle would cost through other websites and compare to what you are paying, if you have had a significantly good deal compared to that then you need to decide whether you would have wanted to pay the extra for the branded button. If the seller is happy for you to return it then decide how much value you’d have placed on getting the actual branded one and if you would have been happy to pay it send this one back and get the branded one
 
Top