Disastrous evening - please help!!!!!

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jumpthemoon

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I hired out a manege this evening to practice jumping before my lesson on Sunday. Horse went on the lorry fine, went nicely round the jumps even though I was nervous and we had a good ride. Came to put him back on the lorry and would he go on???? Noooooo way
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Tried food, dually (or similar) headcollar, chifney (made him worse) all no good. Was trying for and hour and a half before I gave up and rang the nice YO who said I could stick him in a stable (it was dark by then and I have no body light in lorry).

I'm going back in the morning to have another go and hopefully he'll go straight on (he'll be starving as he's had no dinner, not much hay and is on shavings
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), but can anyone give me any advice for the morning?

He just plants himself. If you get behind him he goes nuts and rears etc. Doesn't matter how much you pull, he's not fussed. The worst thing is that I feel like killing him
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but it makes him worse when I get wound up
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What should I do? Any tips for loading in the morning? If the worst comes to the worst I can hack home, but I'm seriously hoping it won't come to that!
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Bloody horse!!!
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i have had troubles in the past one trick i have learnt is to if you can is to flick water at there back end they gennerally shoot foward and hay presto well hopefully it has worked for me
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I know exactly how you feel. Fly took three quarters of an hour tonight as well and in the end we had to hide his travelling companion (who would not load either) and Fly thought he was already on lorry and ran on! He will not load alone but if another horse is on the lorry he will load himself! Don't know what to suggest but if you find the answer let me in on it! xx
 
2 lunge ropes. Only way that Ty will go in some times and I really don't have the patience to stand their for 3 hours practising Natural horsemanship....

I think if a horse is taking the pee then it's ok to use lunge lines although I wouldn't use them on a nervous horse...
 
I bet in the morning he will hop up the ramp quick as a flash!! a night in a strange stable no tea etc will probably do the trick. I had exactly the same happen to me at the vets i took her for an x-ray and so could take her straight home after 4 hours of trying to load my mare i gave up and put her in one of the stables, my friend and i went to macdonalds for some food we got back and i got her out and she was at the top of ramp before me!! i wanted to strangle her..... Good Luck
 
If he's got someone with him he'll go straight on - maybe I need to invest in a shettie thats easy to load! So frustrating - there was no-one on ethe yard either which didn't help. If there had been someone to 'unplant' his feet on the ramp it might have been easier. He went straight on at home - I don't understand why he won't go on coming back
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In fact he looked quite similar to your pic in your sig, moneypit! Apart from anything else - it's so embarrassing!

I'm not sure the water idea would help TLilly - thanks for the suggestion. I'll see how it goes but when anything happens behind him he tends to focus on it not the loading and the only way is up from there!
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What a pain
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, could you get someone to just stand near you with a lunging whip when you try tommorrow , my daughter stands on the drivers side next to the ramp with one and its stopped Toto from thinking he can mess about , also when he's in and tied up give him loads of fuss and treats (even if its taken ages!) good luck
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keltic2 - that's what I'm hoping will happen! He's so food orientated usually and I know he'll be starving in the morning. He's normally starving after his huge haynet, half a straw bed and dinner, so one piddly little haynet is going to leave him famished!

Fingers crossed he behaves in the morning!

I need to sort it out though as we are supposed to be going to a SJ lesson on Sunday and I daren't take him if I can't get home again
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thanks sueandtoto - we tried a lunge whip tonight - it just took his focus off loading and he started rearing/backing off. He doesn't have a normal reaction to lungewhips etc - as soon as he sees one its like he thinks 'right, I'm def not doing it now!'
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grrrr....
 
bribery with food, or someone behind him with a broom or lunge whip threatening his bum, not enough to make him rear/kick, just annoying him.
seems very odd that he loaded fine going. so frustrating. he's obviously not afraid of the ramp etc.
i'd put a controller halter on so it hurts if he pulls back.
i used to use a very long "touchier" whip if i had to load on my own, carry it in left hand and just tap/rub their bum with it as i led them along, if you do it right they don't associate it with you.
hope he loads in the morning, the git!
 
I think he's taking the P**s. We had a pony that used to do this. He would load fine at home as soon as he got to a show no way.

IMO you are going to have to get tuff with him. I no noby on hear thinks you should ever use a yard broom or lunging whip but sometimes you have to all they will just continue to think they can get away with it.
 
put the dually on him. walk him forwards. then back him up firmly - do this time after time - you want to own reverse - he has to do it when you want him to and immediately. Once you have this working on the flat all over the place then approach the lorry - BUT don't let him go on. Walk to the foot of the ramp then back him up - do that a few times - then walk up the ramp - but not into the box - and back him up. again do this a couple of times - then walk straight up the ramp. You want him to be thinking forwards not back. If, everytime he tries to go backwards, you reverse him, he will go forwards. It has worked with every horse I have tried it with and my current horse really was an appalling loader when I got him and now is easy. Good luck
 
Agree that he is taking the piddle. Stick a chiffney on him, that should take his mind off rearing. Get two lunge reins and close them in on him, have a schooling whip to hand, and dont be against giving him a flick with it! Then, when (notice I say when, not if?
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) he goes on, give him lots of treats. Naughty boy!
 
Gypsycob - I would have no problem getting tough with him if I thought it would work - I'd happily shove a broom up his a55! He won't have it though - makes him ten times worse
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Kerilli - Hopefully in the morning the food will be enough. He wasn't interested in it at all tonight which was odd for him tbh. I had a controller type of halter, also the chain under his chin that I use when he's being a pain to lead - neither made any difference. I could see it was uncomfortable for him, but he wasn't going to give up.

THe only thing I can think of was that when we got there, I had to leave him for a minute and he got a bit panicky - I could hear him jumping about in the back, which, on reflection, is unusual behaviour for him. Maybe he got wound up and worried himself. I might invest in one of those whips though - it would have come in handy tonight!
 
Firstly i would not hit/wack him or wind him up in any way, i should put a chifney or a good controller headcoller on him, lead him up to the ramp and absolutely do not let him turn away from it, you must keep him facing the ramp at all times, so he realizes there is no other option than to go forward, if he is being stubborn then i would use a lunge line above his hocks, but you must have someone competant on the other end just keeping the pressure on in a relaxed but firm way, i would also offer him his favourite treat, aiming to keep his head as low as possible. When you get him home give your self some time in the future to just practice loading and load him on and off at LEAST 20 times, this helps the horse to learn by repetition so it becomes imprinted in his brain, i have always used these sort of methods and i can honestly say i have never had any problems in recent years. Good luck.
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daisychain - hitting him only seems to make him worse, however, he is quite happy to stand on the ramp or at the bottom of it, planted, with me putting pressure on either a pressure halter or a chifney. He looks as if he's boren, tbh! Stares at me as though I'm wasting his time and why are we bothering with this! I'll do the repetition thing at the weekend though - thanks
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Cheers for the luck too, I think I'll need it
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daisychain - hitting him only seems to make him worse, however, he is quite happy to stand on the ramp or at the bottom of it, planted, with me putting pressure on either a pressure halter or a chifney. He looks as if he's boren, tbh! Stares at me as though I'm wasting his time and why are we bothering with this! I'll do the repetition thing at the weekend though - thanks
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Cheers for the luck too, I think I'll need it
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ummm lunge ropes!
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I second Bosworths suggestion my friends daughters pony started messing about and wouldn't load in my trailer to go on a fun ride so I backed him up everytime he wouldn't go in and on the 4th attempt on he walked on, He only tried it once on the return journey and on he went. I had seen it on Horse & Country TV with Kelly Marks.
 
Yes hitting usually just winds them up in my opinion, from what you describe definately need long lines behind you and very strong people on the end of them! He must have no other option than to go forward!
 
Here's one that's worked for me (I had been trying to get this horse to load at the vets for two and a half hours, when this lady offered to help - she did this and had him on in two minutes, ended up getting lessons from her!):

Get the horse to face the ramp. Stand to his side on the left. Hold the leadrope with your left hand. Take a dressage whip on your right, turn it round so you are holding the end, say "walk on" and tap the horse the gentlest tap with the handle end of the whip - nothing will happen, so continute taping. Get a rhythm to this, it's very important, tap, tap, tap. The first tap should be the gentlest thing ever, just a touch, the second a tiny bit stronger, then stronger and stronger. As soon as he takes any tiny step forward stop, reward him and stroke him on his neck with the whip. Repeat for the next step. He should load himself at about the third or fourth repetition.

Now I appreciate this sounds horribly cruel and I do NOT go around beating my horses up, but I have used it on two horses and you don't need to get strong at all, in fact I never had to hit them hard at all, it's the escallation that works - the feeling that this is getting worse and worse and not ending that seems to drive them forward. Very important that you stop after he takes a single step, as you don't want to panic him, you just want to send the message that when you say 'walk on' he needs to take at least one step.

I know it sounds odd, but it might work if all else fails (if he tries to barge through you, you need to stop that at the front end and keep him facing forwards).
 
Poor you!! I have had very similar problems, in the end I got (on recommendation) one of the monty robert type trainers out. I was v v v sceptical about this method, but it really works. Basically (with a control headcollar) you need to get control of the horses feet, if he stands still push him backwards or sidewards and then forward and then backwards and then sidewards etc, so he is moving constantly. He can only stand still if you want and allow him to. My mare was very dodgy to load, and this method works with her, but you probably need to book one of these 'natural horsepeople' for a session so they can show you the proper techniques. Horses that won't load are a pain in the arse, good luck!!
 
Don't use lunge ropes - as he is rearing and I have seen too many go over backwards on lunge lines. You cannot force a horse to go in of it doesn't want to. Beating it - using a chifney and lunge lines may work - but they don't solve the problem. Horses don't take the piss - they haven't got the same sense of humour we have. He may be bing stubborn - or he may have had a real fright so scaring him into the box will reinforce the feeling of fright. You have to make him want to go in, make it appear to be his decision.

I personally would never load a horse with a Chifney. I prefer my horse to load themselves and yes it takes time to teach them to do this but they will eventually. I have had some bad loaders and they all got it eventually.
 
My tip, for what it is worth.

When you get the horse out of the stable, put on your controller headcollar, then head off to the school or a patch of grass and keep walking and then halting, circles, turns - keep the horse thinking. Until you reach the stage where the horse is anticipating you moving off and going forward almost before you ask and just reacting to your body language. Make your lead rope longer and longer until you have this control from the very end of the lead rope.

Only then approach the lorry, keep the rope long, don't get in the way - just be determined and encouraging and walk forward. Expect the horse to follow you and it will.

Force doesn't work.
 
I'll tell you my dads method, it may not be the nicest but it works!

Preferably park wagon where they can't get down the sides, although I know thats probably not possible.

You need a long rope and 1 or 2 strong men! Put the rope through the partition and then you can literally drag them in (have men outside the lorry). It works!! Plus because they know you have the better of them they don't tend to bugger about after.

Not my methods, my dads, but we never have bad loaders!
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Agreeing 100% with Bosworth and Motherhen...

get control on the ground, away from the lorry with pressure/release and then load... but importantly don't "TRY" to load... ie don't assume he might stop, just use your positive body language to boldly walk up the ramp.

If he still plants himself and you seem to be at square one, despite all best intentions of "getting control of his feet".. then I would, if you have competent help, allow 2 helpers to use one lunge rein behind him, with the rein in the same position as race-stall handlers use their rubber rope, but the important thing is here, is that they use no pressure to "pull him in" they are only preventing him from going backwards. They need to stand at least half way along his body length, so there is no risk of them being kicked or run over, and at least a couple of yards away from him.

Do not turn to look at him, if he plants, just remain looking forwards...

If he really says "no".. then I think it is a long hack home, and work out why he's associating the lorry with such a negative experience.

From the ad for your Rice, I guess the lorry is new? Does it have windows in the horse bit (they can't balance in the dark).. and was the partition sufficently wide enough for him to balance?

Let us all know how it goes!

Good luck, stay calm, if you don't solve it tomorrow, you soon will when you have time on your side at home.
 
we had that problem with our coloured three year old. we had to get him to the vet hospital and he had never been in a lorry. daughter got a dually on him and every time he stopped, she made him go back and every time he came forward a bit more. when we went to collect him from hospital, he went straight in and travelled really well.
 
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Force doesn't work.

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I disagree, yes it does!!! My dad used to move horses for our local riding school, he'd leave it up to them but when they couldn't get it in, he would!
 
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