Disciplining an older horse?

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Dumbo

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I'll try to keep this brief!
I have owned my 14yo Tb nearly a year now and really enjoying horse ownership! However, he's got 2 personalities! Some days he's so easy to do; he'll follow me around, let me fuss him and just a joy in general. Other days (and they're becoming more frequent) he's impatient (will suddenly decide after a few minutes of being tied up that he's bored so pulls away and canters out the yard up to the field gate). He will test my patience when it comes to catching him, sometimes spin when I'm leading him, refuses to go in his stable, completely forgets I'm there and I've come close to being crushed between a big horse and solid wall too many times!

So - how can I show him that I'm the boss, he has to respect me and learn some manners?

A couple of people have suggested carrying a whip with me at all times but I don't want to beat him up - surely that could cause more problems?

I shout at him and occasionally give him a tap on the nose or smack on the shoulder but he really doesn't take notice!

Any advice please as my parents are becoming nervous leaving me alone with him and it's only a while before I get hurt
 
AdorableAlice said:
Find a good instructor as soon as possible. You need help.
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Good advice. :)

It sounds like your boy has no respect for you and you sound very inexperienced. He's only nice to you when he feels like it, you're not in charge of him. This is a dangerous situation, horses are big animals!

You need someone with time and experience to show you how to change your relationship with him so that he respects you. It's not about "beating him up".

Find help asap please! I'm sure people here with have advice, but you need more than a forum can give. :(
 
You don't need to beat him up but you *do* need to be firm with him. Don't let him spin when you're leading him - make sure that you lead in a bridle if you can't reliably control him without. If you tie him up, give him a haynet to pick at, so that he doesn't feel the need to pull away. Better still, don't tie him outside put him in the stable with the door shut - I cannot understand why so many people feel the need to tie horses outside. And yes, carry a whip, use it to keep him moving or to hold him back by holding it in front of his nose, or tapping his chest if he gets too far forward. If he speeds up when you are leading him, make him circle. He will soon get fed up and walk at your pace. Make it easier for him to do what you want than not - and reward him when he does the right thing - or he won't know what you do want.
And as AA says you need someone experienced to show you how to do this.
 
Carrying a whip and "tapping" can easily end up in unfair punishment. If you get into that you can easily make things worse, not better, as your horse will become defensive. You should hardly ever "need" to shout. Personally I only do that if I see some real peril to horse or person (like when my mare decides on a bit of gelding kicking!). So I can only echo the advice above, get some sensible help (not someone who swaggers around the yard yelling at horses and showing them whose boss....).
 
I met Chester as a late teen (him not me) although just before he was pts a few months later he was actually aged at early twenties :confused:

You had to 'read' him, he was set in his ways which made him wonderful if not a complete sh%%*t sometimes :rolleyes:

Im all up for telling a horse off, although my new boy just goes into melt down if you raise your voice which is a learning curve! Chester would look at you like he was going to stamp on your head if you told him off ... I still swear he would have gone through with it!!

Anyway my point is, work out the trigger points, read his body language and get in there before he 'decides' ... pick your fights wisely as there is no point trying to tell him off after he has done something but if you can read him early and change your pattern to throw him off guard then you are winning. Please respect your older horse especially if they are new, they will reward you for it I promise :D

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I miss this boy everyday xxx:p
 
Can I just add - honestly, I don't think you should be following advice about whips, bridles, etc from an internet forum. There is too much potential to get this wrong and be unfair to the horse. It's not a failure to admit that you lack experience and get some 1-1 help. Over on the Intelligent Horsemanship website they have trainers you could contact who are really good with this sort of thing and don't charge the earth.
 
Thanks all - I have contacted a couple of recommended instructors so hopefully I can get some help with him.
I think I made it sound worse than it is but I realise I need to get it sorted asap before he becomes worse!
 
Dumbo said:
Thanks all - I have contacted a couple of recommended instructors so hopefully I can get some help with him.
I think I made it sound worse than it is but I realise I need to get it sorted asap before he becomes worse!
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Good luck! I'm sure you'll get it sorted with a bit of help. :)
 
Tinypony said:
Can I just add - honestly, I don't think you should be following advice about whips, bridles, etc from an internet forum. There is too much potential to get this wrong and be unfair to the horse. It's not a failure to admit that you lack experience and get some 1-1 help. Over on the Intelligent Horsemanship website they have trainers you could contact who are really good with this sort of thing and don't charge the earth.
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Couldn't agree more and was about to post the same.

Dumbo said:
Thanks all - I have contacted a couple of recommended instructors so hopefully I can get some help with him.
I think I made it sound worse than it is but I realise I need to get it sorted asap before he becomes worse!
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Well done, best course of action IMO. Horses that know their strength can be dangerous animals and following advice to carry a whip or be firm could see a horse fight back with a strike out at your head! Stranger things have happened.

When there is any safety issue, ditch the forum and get hands on advice in person from someone experienced who can see you and the horse....you have done this, so you have done the best by yourself and your boy :-)
 
Tinypony said:
Carrying a whip and "tapping" can easily end up in unfair punishment. If you get into that you can easily make things worse, not better, as your horse will become defensive.
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I can assure you that in my case it certainly doesn't. If the handler holds the whip correctly, where the horse can see it, it acts as a barrier. On the rare occasions when the horse ignores the barrier or barges through it,a light tap reminds it. It is not punishment, it is a reminder that the barrier is there. Done properly a tap is nothing like a whack from a whip. If the horse is barging I'm not sure that it is unfair to correct it, that can be very dangerous behaviour.

But I agree that eyes on the ground are the best way forward.
 
Dumbo said:
Thanks all - I have contacted a couple of recommended instructors so hopefully I can get some help with him.
I think I made it sound worse than it is but I realise I need to get it sorted asap before he becomes worse!
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Great! You don't want to leave this to escalate and ruin your enjoyment. Horses are too expensive and time consuming for it to be a battle every time you want to do anything with him! :)
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Better still, don't tie him outside put him in the stable with the door shut - I cannot understand why so many people feel the need to tie horses outside.
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Because why not? A horse should do whatever you ask it to (within reason, but hell its only standing outside quietly!). Unless its raining, I always tie mine up outside because I hate brushing them inside - can't imagine its great for their respiratory system breathing in all that dust.

OP, definately ask someone knowledgable to come and help you and show you how to deal with your horse. Unfortunately once a horse begins to get a bit bolshy and it gets away with it, it will sprial downhill very quickly.
 
Good to hear you are getting some help with this and had the sense to recognise the problem. I used to ride a friends horse who had some very mean habits. He'd been controlled all his life by whip and aggression. I thought by being firm but kind that he'd be ok with me but no. He thought it meant I was a pushover so I had to deal with him how he was used to being handled. I wasn't happy about it but when he started turning his rear and threatening to kick me I had to revise how I was handling him. I never actually used a whip on him but I did whack the fence near him and shouted at him. Made me feel sad that this was what he responded to.

I think what in trying to say is horses become accustomed to being handled in a particular way so you getting someone to assess the situation and teach you how to deal with him and get him to respect your leadership is the best solution.
 
I think some people just have an aura around them. I very rarely strike a horse, any horse, I do not feel the need to have to resort to this even with older horses who come here and are a bit rude initially. I will give a horse a thump if it looks to cause injury to someone or is doing something dangerous but otherwise I find it unnecessary tbh. If you are clear about what you want the horse to do and the horse understands what you want I find they will almost always try to do what's right, and this starts right from birth with my lot. I treat foals with the same clarity that I offer to the older horses. Make it easy for them to do right and block them when they do wrong. Unlike many on this forum, I do not ignore any behaviour, I reward for being good and reprimand for being naughty. Always. And again I start this even with my foals. I'd say, and my clients would vouch, that our horses are all very well behaved, even the ones who arrived as helions!
 
Spring Feather said:
I think some people just have an aura around them. I very rarely strike a horse, any horse, I do not feel the need to have to resort to this even with older horses who come here and are a bit rude initially. I will give a horse a thump if it looks to cause injury to someone or is doing something dangerous but otherwise I find it unnecessary tbh. If you are clear about what you want the horse to do and the horse understands what you want I find they will almost always try to do what's right, and this starts right from birth with my lot. I treat foals with the same clarity that I offer to the older horses. Make it easy for them to do right and block them when they do wrong. Unlike many on this forum, I do not ignore any behaviour, I reward for being good and reprimand for being naughty. Always. And again I start this even with my foals. I'd say, and my clients would vouch, that our horses are all very well behaved, even the ones who arrived as helions!
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THIS^^^
 
MagicMelon said:
Because why not? A horse should do whatever you ask it to (within reason, but hell its only standing outside quietly!). Unless its raining, I always tie mine up outside because I hate brushing them inside - can't imagine its great for their respiratory system breathing in all that dust.
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Because in many set-ups the horse is in everybody else's way, either blocking walkways or annoying other horses over their stable doors. I was always taught that horses should not be able to touch noses over doors for safety's sake. And Op isn't the only person who has trouble controlling her horse when it's tied up, so more than one accident waiting to happen IMO. I quite agree that all horses should be taught to tie up and mine ground ties but tying and leaving (not saying OP does this) is one of my pet hates.
 
Spring Feather said:
I think some people just have an aura around them. If you are clear about what you want the horse to do and the horse understands what you want I find they will almost always try to do what's right, ....... Make it easy for them to do right and block them when they do wrong. Unlike many on this forum, I do not ignore any behaviour, I reward for being good and reprimand for being naughty. Always. ............. that our horses are all very well behaved, even the ones who arrived as helions!
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You are absolutely right SF, we too hear comments on our well-mannered horses. It does annoy me though when the comment is accompanied by "You are lucky". No we are not, they haven't all arrived like that, it takes work and consistency.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
You are absolutely right SF, we too hear comments on our well-mannered horses. It does annoy me though when the comment is accompanied by "You are lucky". No we are not, they haven't all arrived like that, it takes work and consistency.
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This...couldn't agree more.

Doesn't matter if it's the horses or the dogs, they do as we ask and there are no arguments. Everyone is happy, no stress.

We can have all four dogs running at full pelt 200 yards away in a field and if we see anyone coming into the field, all it takes is a whistle and "COME" and they turn and run for our feet. As they get to us, we say BACK and they will all walk behind until we let them go on again. The number of times we have had dog walkers trapse across fields to ask us how the heel we do it is unreal. I honestly couldn't give you a training plan. They have never been trained. We just expect a certain behaviour from them and they willingly give it.

People come to the house and are amazed that the dogs will all follow us to the kitchen, but not follow us in. They will stand in the doorway but never cross it. They've never been trained not to come in, they just no the kitchen is off limits.

Horses are the same. they know not to be pushy. Not because I have trained them not to be, but because I just expect manners and seem to get them.

It's not luck...it's how you are with an animal. If you get frustrated, angry, annoyed or anything emotional, you'll be on a losing run. Just go in to handling animals with a clear idea of what you want, make it black and white and be consistent and they will just understand.

That's my take on it anyway.
 
I found reading Michael Peace's books really helped me with my older horse and working through his barginess. It gave some useful techniques to try - some worked, some didn't but I still use the ones that worked. I was an inexperienced owner and my horse was similar to yours.
However the BEST book I have ever read that really explained it all to me was Horses Never Lie by Mark Rashid. It explains how horses choose who they will follow as a leader and how you can be that leader. It doesn't really give techniques, but it helps you change your own behaviour so your horse start to respect you. It was a revelation and really altered the balance of my relationship with my horse. Yes he still has his moments but he knows who his 'mum' is!
 
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