Disheartened - feeling very down :(

[Cheshire Chestnut]

I wouldn't have thought I'd have posted something like this on here but here I am. Suppose I don't really know what else to do, my brain is mashed.

In a nutshell: my 8 year old Welsh D gelding who has always been fit and healthy developed severe COPD this year. Started as a spring cold like the rest of the horses on the yard but his cough and snotty nose never stopped like the rest of them, it just got worse. I got the vet out. Fast forward 3 months and he had been on antibiotics and an electric inhaler. During that 3 months he had 3 lung washes where samples were taken from his upper lung. First one showed chronic inflammation from an allergy. Six weeks worth of inhaled steroids twice per day later and his second lung was came back a lot better. Third one came back clear after another 6 weeks on his inhaler. But he was still coughing a lot, it didn't make sense.

So off he went to Leahurst hospital and he had a deep lung endoscope which showed nothing. Chest X-rays showed 'white patches' on his lungs so he had lung biopsy under general anthesetic. That showed chronic inflamation of his lower lungs and mild fibrosis of his lungs. Basically his lungs had irreversible damage on them in form of scarring. The inhaler was only treating the top third of his lung so he was put on oral steroids (Equisolone powder) for 4 weeks. I moved him stables to a huge airy mini barn that is open ended both ends, with a miniature paddock so he could have some outdoor time while he wasn't allowed to be on grass whilst he was on steroids. I changed his bedding to non dust bedding, soaked hay twice per day and then one evening I noticed a huge lump on his neck that had appeared from nowhere since early afternoon. I called the on call vet and she scanned it - it was a blood clot, possibly caused by the catheter from his lung biopsy but a delayed response due to the steroids. That was treated with hot packing twice per day, aspirin tablets and some gel. His clot went but I was told his vein had collapsed and died, it was no longer working. Apparently he will be fine though and it's fairly common so the vet didn't seem worried.

He was weaned off the steroids and seemed fantastic and full of life! I was so so pleased! No coughing and breathing was great, we even started jumping again. Now, he's been off the steroids for 10 days and his cough and wheezing is creeping back I was hoping he'd be ok but it seems he can't be without them. Vet said he can't stay on them long term and we are having a huge chat tomorrow. I know what he's going to say I feel like I've failed him - I'm frantically remembering if I've done anything to cause this. I've researched it over and over again - it could have been mould in his straw. Maybe I didn't muck him out well enough.

He's looking well and feeling well at the moment but I know he's going back downhill. What can I do? I've maxed out his £5000 on his insurance so I'm on my own paying. I've just bought him a £700 nebuliser to help him as the rental one from the vets has to go back. I really thought we'd turned a corner but in reality it was just the steroids giving him some relief. Heartbroken

 

[Clare85]

I'm sorry to read about your situation, have a hug. Please don't blame yourself, this is just one of those things.

Personally, I've never dealt with COPD and I'm sure others will be along with more relevant experience. However, if it were me I would be tempted to turn him away for an extended period of time (on veterinary advice obviously) and give him time to truly recover. Sometimes things like this can hit them so hard and they need more time than you realise to get over it.

 

[Cheshire Chestnut]

I'd like to add he's never stopped the nebuliser - he's still on that twice a day as normal, which I got told he will have to have for the rest of his life.

Feeling a bit lost. I live away from my family so my horsey mum can't give me a hug. My poor husband isn't horsey at all and is just terrified of saying the wrong thing so he stays quietly supportive.

 

[Fiona]

I'm so sorry, don't have any experience of horses with breathing problems at all

But I think you need a big hug x x x

Hope your talk with the vet goes better than expected..

Fiona

 

[Cheshire Chestnut]

I'm sorry to read about your situation, have a hug. Please don't blame yourself, this is just one of those things.

Personally, I've never dealt with COPD and I'm sure others will be along with more relevant experience. However, if it were me I would be tempted to turn him away for an extended period of time (on veterinary advice obviously) and give him time to truly recover. Sometimes things like this can hit them so hard and they need more time than you realise to get over it.

Thank you. It's hard.

I would do that but he can't breath properly and he would still need his nebuliser twice per day to help him breath. Also he gets very fat very quickly so I'm always having to micromanage his diet. Not sure if turning him away would be an option because of all this

 

[Pearlsasinger]

You haven't done anything wrong but if I were you and you can possibly afford to, I would try to find out what he is allergic to. It is possible to allergy test horses - hopefully someone can recommend a vet who does the testing.

Having lost 3 horses far too young, to different conditions, I am afraid that we do sometimes just have to accept that we have done all we can and make THAT decision, in the best interests of the horse.

 

[Flame_]

Don't feel bad, its not your fault. I know a couple of horses that took months to get over "colds" that went round the yard and amounted to nothing for most of the horses. Could you just turn him away for a year and see if time, movement and fresh air can help him to heal himself, or at least improve?

I just wanted to say I totally understand the "how did I screw up?" feelings but even if you had done something different like changing the bedding or whatever it probably would have made no difference, and in some circumstances could have led to a whole different chain of rubbish consequences anyway. Often whilst trying desperately to solve one problem, any solution just causes another problem.

Best of luck that he makes a good recovery.

 

[Cheshire Chestnut]

You haven't done anything wrong but if I were you and you can possibly afford to, I would try to find out what he is allergic to. It is possible to allergy test horses - hopefully someone can recommend a vet who does the testing.

Having lost 3 horses far too young, to different conditions, I am afraid that we do sometimes just have to accept that we have done all we can and make THAT decision, in the best interests of the horse.

Leahurst offered me an allergy test for him but then decided it was too risky. To do the test they said he'd need to be off steroids for at least two weeks beforehand and that would include his inhaler/nebuliser. His nebuliser is the only thing that can stablise his breathing when he's wheezing. He seems to need it every 12 hours otherwise he's terrible, dread to think what he's be like without it for two weeks.

Awful catch 22. Feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

[AmyMay]

How can you blame yourself? You sound like the most wonderful owner.

I don't know what to say really, which is totally inadequate ((((( xxxxx ))))

 

[stencilface]

How can you blame yourself? You sound like the most wonderful owner.

I don't know what to say really, which is totally inadequate ((((( xxxxx ))))

This.

I'm not quite at your point with my boy and his ever changing lamenesses, but I know the feelings of hopelessness and wondering what I've done wrong all too well

 

[Cheshire Chestnut]

Thank you, but I just feel so rubbish. Keep thinking I wished I had called the vet sooner - I let his 'cold' and cough go on for just under 3 weeks, I honestly thought he just didn't shake it off so just monitored him closely. Little did I know that it wasn't a cold.

Stencilface, really sorry to hear about your boy. It's awful not being able to help and the feeling of heartbreak when you think you've turned a corner to then find or you've just hit another wall I hope there's some good news for you soon x

 

[racebuddy]

Hi big hugs its def not your fault : my show horse has copd but def more seasonal flares up through summer / crops getting cut ect , keep us updated xx r u on Facebook ? Can pm if need be x

 

[cundlegreen]

Have you considered homeopathic? Your horse's immune system has taken a big hit with all the antibiotics and steroids. Would there be any chance that this was triggered by a flu jab? I've known that happen before, and the horse in question showed COPD and couldn't go more than quarter of a mile without out wheezing and running out of energy. She was treated with a specially mixed homeopathic supplement to boost the immune system, and was back in work after a month. her owner was a total skeptic about the whole thing, and couldn't believe how well the mare recovered. Chris Day if he's still practising is a homeopathic vet and would certainly be worth a shot. I've seen some pretty amazing things happen using natural products, so don't write them off.

 

[FfionWinnie]

He might be easier to manage in the winter. I know that doesn't help you just now but can he not have steroids in the summer? I know steroids aren't great but if it's a choice of a shorter relatively normal life or calling it a day now, maybe it would be worth it?

It's nothing you've done, it sounds like you are a great owner.

I have a horse with a potentially career ending muscle disorder and the effort that goes into looking after a horse like this is very draining. You've done everything possible for your horse so really don't beat yourself up.

 

[SO1]

I know of at least 2 ponies that had RAO that when moved to different areas of the UK made a complete recovery.

My pony has suffered from RAO and he lived out, moved yards to a different area and he is living in and his breathing is so much better - I don't want to tempt fate and say he is cured but been there nearly a year and only had one episode and we think that was as a result of over heating it was last winter and he had just had a hard lesson and got hot as he needed re-clipping. He is on a breathing supplement of Liquorice and a bespoke herbal mix but he was also on that at last yard.

My friends pony had RAO very badly and moved to a yard near the sea and the pony has not had a problem there either.

It may be if your pony has an allergy that is localised that you maybe able to re home him to another area of the country or even a yard a bit further away from where you are.

 

[stencilface]

Just a thought, you don't live near any breweries do you? My old pony got very poorly when he was sold to someone who lived near a brewery.

And on leaving them, my horse was lame for 3 months before I took him for a full diagnostic, as I put the lameness down to other things ( abscesses, bruising) when I should have remembered my horse like to be fully broken!' So 3 weeks is nothing

 

[Honey08]

Nothing of use to add, but you are definitely not a bad owner. You'll have to send him up here for the winter, we'll find him somewhere on top of a windy hill.

 

[Gloi]

Our pony with COPD does best if he never goes into a stable and never has hay. He can handle haylage though he does best winter grazing on foggage. One night indoors even with what is meant to be dust free bedding sets him off. Fresh air blasting in from the Irish Sea is the key for him.

 

[ladyt25]

How frustrating and disheartening for you. Having had asthma all my life I empathise with your horse!
I would certainly look at some more natural alternatives to the steroids to be honest and consider the environment you keep him in.
What is in the surrounding area? Are you in the countryside or in a more built up area? Triggers could be certain pollutions in the area - either of industrial kind or types off crop that is being grown. Even types of grasses.
I don't know where in the country you are or how long you've hard his but a change of location, if possible could help him as the allergen causing this could be specific to your area.
Worth more investigation I think. Plus, if the steroids help then maybe a longer course is the answer?

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

A lot of horses are allergic to oilseed rape [yellow fields].
My hunter had COPD, and I gave him Harvey's Aconite powders, this was 1973.
He got codeine cough mixture.
He was my first horse and I called vet out straight away, and I moved him, it made no difference, there was nothing anyone could do.

I get steroids for my asthma, but they limit how much I get, we upped the dose for a week, but it made no difference.

 

[Rlister89]

Not sure if you've tried it but my horse still coughed on soaked hay and since moving him to steamed hay he has been taken off all his supplements i previously had to feed. He does live out but can now handle nights in if needed whereas before he really struggled even when hay was soaked just before feeding.

Really hope it gets better for you!

 

[Cheshire Chestnut]

Just a thought, you don't live near any breweries do you? My old pony got very poorly when he was sold to someone who lived near a brewery.

And on leaving them, my horse was lame for 3 months before I took him for a full diagnostic, as I put the lameness down to other things ( abscesses, bruising) when I should have remembered my horse like to be fully broken!' So 3 weeks is nothing

Yes!! My yard is a brewery!!! It's a working farm and has a brewery attached to it... He lived there for 18 months before getting ill though so not sure if they could be connected? Weird you should say that though :-/

 

[Cheshire Chestnut]

Nothing of use to add, but you are definitely not a bad owner. You'll have to send him up here for the winter, we'll find him somewhere on top of a windy hill.

That would be perfect Maybe being on a working farm is too much for him

 

[honetpot]

I know it will not make you feel better but you were just unlucky, your horse had a predisposition to this, that you couldn't know about and something which you will never know what was a trigger, so in essence you could not have prevented this.
I had a NF mare, lived out most her life and very rarely stabled and when she was it was on low dust bedding as I could not have a huge muck heap.
Allergy and asthma are linked in humans, I had her from being four. At five she had a huge reaction to a fly bite, then over the years would has RAD symptoms in spring, got better in the dry weather. The she seemed to have hives linked to high sugars in grass, but not sweet itch, would rub herself till she bled, if you put her on old hay and straw it would stop. Over the years her dust/pollen allergy got worse, she would even cough on haylage, but only certain times of the year. She got laminitis out on loan and they stabled her in a barn with straw, I was more worried about her lungs than her feet and got her home quick but her breathing was never the same. She lived out for the rest of her life and before she died aged 24 we had worked out a balance but I was really lucky I could do that.
Only you can know what its best for your horse, where he is concerned you are the expert. I would look at different types of management and monitor the results, and try and get him less reliant on meds. I sound like a cracked record, but turn him a way in a relatively breezy area, if he needs steroids ask if he can have inhaled and salbutamol so he is less likely to get laminitis. Hugs

 

[YasandCrystal]

Our veteran mare got diagnosed with COPD when she was 15, apparently a classic age. She was really bad and gasped for breath with her mouth open. She was injected with steroids and had inhalers we used daily. We steamed all her hay. Then I bought some Respiratory herbs from Ellen Collinson the iridologist and herbalist and we never looked back after an 8 week course on the herbs. She has had 2 attacks since my fault feeding dry hay, but she is 22 now and regularly does 12 to 20 mile distance rides and le Trec etc. I feed her a herbal respiratory suppliment from my local herbalist.

I believe the herbalist route is worth a try. Your horse may be reacting to the hops too. Could you move him as a trial? At least you would know you had tried everything. Good luck.

 

[Cheshire Chestnut]

I would try herbs, God I would try blood from a rainbow unicorn crab if it was going to help! Im going to ring Ellen Collinson tomorrow and have a chat I think. I'm pretty desperate and willing to try anything. He improved a bit at Leahurst, I don't know if it was the change in atmosphere/surroundings. Not sure...

 

[el_Snowflakes]

Have you tried turning him out 24/7 & giving him haylage instead?

 

[danda]

My horse has had COPD for a number of years and lives out permanently, he is bad when he has hay, even if soaked. Had to change his feed as also developed Cushings and vet suggested not to give him any hay for a while (there was some grass at the time) and see how he did. His breathing improved massively though obviously his lungs will never recover. I have not yet tried any haylage but may have to as we go into Winter. So living out and no hay has been great for him.

 

[fatpiggy]

You are hardly a bad owner OP, you have tried so hard for your boy. Unfortunately PF isn't like other lung problems as it is active while the immune system is (over)active. The steroids suppress the immunity and aid the inflammation, so a double help, but as soon as you stop them, both come back again. I would certainly go with the outside, low dust etc route and I'm another voice for homeopathy. My mare couldn't have many conventional drugs due to her anticonvulsants and homeopathy treated other problems successfully on several occasions. Ignore the naysayers, they aren't in your unfortunate position. The worst they can do is do nothing to help after all. There used to be a homeopathic-trained vet in my cat's practice, so they are around. I've got a book on homeopathic treatments for horses and I'll take a look and see if there is anything which might be useful. I know it probably isn't helpful, but my Dad's PF was infinitely better when he went on holiday to warmer, drier places. His breathing improved no end and he was able to walk further.

 

[Firefly9410]

I know you mentioned weight and a restricted diet due to this. Obviously being overweight would not help his lung function and there are other risks with being overweight. But if you are considering PTS because he cannot breathe those risks from being overweight no longer matter. The worst that can happen is him needing to be PTS due to his weight or complications arising from it. So if you think turning him out full time might help and you want to try that then do. You have nothing to lose at this point and you could find you have a fatter horse who breathes better.