Disliking horses. Is it the fault of the owner then?

Enfys

Enfys

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Carrying on the "Is it bad to dislike a horse?" thread, I see many people dislike horses because of their aggression/lack of manners/tendency to take chunks out of you/kick you into next week...

So, can the fault be entirely/partially laid at the door of the handler/owner/circumstances or are some horses born aggressive/bland?

Nature v nurture I suppose.
 
Interesting one....

I have had a few liveries horses on my yard in the past that have driven me up the wall, with most problems 'manners' related that the owners could have easily stamped down on.

I have yet to meet a horse that was born 'bad', and with careful management think most problems can be overcome.
 
Enfys said:
So, can the fault be entirely/partially laid at the door of the handler/owner/circumstances or are some horses born aggressive/bland?
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Some horses simply have no personality - some are nasty - some are indifferent.

I've known all of the above. All beautifully handled, produced and cared for, so can't blame their owner.
 
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I bought an ex show horse who had been produced by a well known showing person. When I emailed to say I now owned said horse she said he'd been grumpy from a baby. He was a right git, used to bare his teeth at me as I walked past his stable! And changing his rugs was a challenge in itself. Tried telling him off, ignoring him etc but he was 14 by this time and didn't plan on changing.
 
I would argue that disliking a horse always the 'fault' of the person - but not in a bad way!

Cos think about it - you might have an aggressive horse, and not have a problem with it and quite like the horse. Equally you might not like a horse with a totally different personality.

So whether we dislike a horse is purely down to what we like and don't (same with people!) and there's nothing wrong with that, preferences make us individual.

But I think you're sort of asking if the traits are inherent in the horse or brought out by the person, but I still don't think that makes a difference - like I say, some people can like a horse with vices that most people would hate - the behaviour is still there, whatever you think of it.
 
I posted on the other thread that no-one likes my horse. I think he's the way he is because he's very sensitive and was not treated accordingly as a baby. I bought him at three just broken, but I have reason to believe he was treated a little roughly. I bought him from a dealer who is very good, well known but they have a lot of horses on he yard and simply do not have the time to take if one is a little trickier so I suppose he was rushed on and became a little sour about the whole thing. However, he does just have a wicked sense of humour and is very emotional for a gelding which I suspect is because he was cut very late (I had him gelded when I bought him)

I have always treated him very firmly and fairly and not let him get the better of me, which has worked very well as he is a great teammate for me but does not take kindly to others.

I think it's probably a bit of both nature and nurture but would be inclined to say circumstances and handling probably plays a slightly more stronger part. Horses have a wonderful memory for negative experiences as prey animals this helps them to survive.
 
I don't think it always has to be the fault of the owner. Bit like how you can't like every person you come into contact with - sometimes personalities just don't mesh. Some horses I like an awful lot, I am indifferent to a fair few and there are the odd one or two that I actively dislike. I can think of a couple I've come across in the last year or so who I've just really disliked. Can't pinpoint why, just didn't like their personalities.
 
The horse I don't like has had nothing but the best care and handled well, boundaries instilled etc. yet still felt the need to kick me into next week when he was younger. And I still don't like him now even though he has lovely manners and is a nice ride. Other people have the same thing with him, they can't like him even though he's never done anything to them. That's got to be nature, surely?
 
The mare I referred to as hating, Kate, wasn't in any way mistreated by her breeder (and owner), or her trainer (my boss). In fact, her owner adored her :confused: and seemed oblivious to the fact that on a daily basis she would a) try to kill us, and b) fail at being the thing she was bred as - a pacing racehorse.

My boss told me he'd broken and trained Kate's mother, who had also been a witch. Again, the owner adored her too. That makes me say it's hereditary.

I recently found out that Kate had a half-sister who, according to her current owner, is a dream to handle and ride. I find it hard to believe that Kate's dam passed on her evil streak to one daughter, but didn't to the other. Then again, it was concentrated in Kate...she was super-evil! No hope of getting a saddle near her to find out if she was 'rideable', but somehow I doubt it...
 
I don't think so...

I have 3 horses two of which used to be at a livery yard. One was hated by all who came into contact with him and I suppose still is tbh (I love him!)
The other is the total opposite, everyone loves him and thinks he's the sweetest horse out.
I treat them the same pretty much although I do have to be a lot firmer with the first one.
The third ive only had since being on our own field so no one really handles him but again everyone who's met him likes him.

Horse 1 does himself no favours and can be a noisy stressy bolshy a*sehole and there are days I dislike him too ;)
 
The only horse I have really disliked is my friends cob who I used to share a yard with.

Some of the reasons were her owners fault, the complete lack of manners, biting pockets because she had been tit-bitted all the time, kicking out when being rugged, barging etc

The others were the ones which drove me up the wall, breaking fences down, breaking stable doors off their hinges and being nasty to other horses in the field. Two of these weren't helped by the owner who would leave the horse in whichever bit of the field she had broken into for the day / few hours until she could mend the fence / stable door. Problem was the damn cob would just break back through the next day after having a taste of the good stuff which was a nightmare when trying to rotate and rest paddocks. The cob was hardly ridden and certainly had no manners in her behaviour towards her owner, I think had she not been so bored she might not have been so destructive.

The cob would also spook out hacking, mainly because my friend would ride as a passenger, after she had a bad fall from one of these spooks I hacked the cob out a few times for her myself and found that whilst on the face of it she seemed quite good to hack, in traffic etc she was actually lacking confidence and really did want me to look after her. The cob did a nasty spin one day when my friend was babysitting me on my then green mare, unfortunately I was the one who ended up on the floor (I blame her owner for the ridden problems also!)

When the cob moved to another yard after attacking my old gelding she was turned out after a few days settling in with an old mare, the cob cornered this mare and was kicking her, the owner said she felt if the mare had gone down the cob would have killed it. Frightened of the cob she went and got a bucket of feed to coax her away from the horse she was attacking, thus rewarding it for what it had done. We all told her she should have gone after it with a lunge whip to get it away from the other horse.

Unfortunately my friend thinks that the sun shines from her cobs bottom, will tit-bit and bribe her to do everything with food (she even tit-bits when changing the rein lunging...) and the result is the cob is now little handled and hasn't been ridden for a couple of years.

Perhaps in other hands I may not dislike the cob so much but I'm afraid I think she is horrid and I would never have her back on the yard with my horses again!
 
It depends some of it is the owners fault some overfeed causing over overexcitable stabled 24/7 and the horses lack manners in some cases the peole have had them from day one and they have always been allowed to do what they want.
Some owners seem to have very different veiws as what manners are

I would count walking into a horses stable and wanting it to walk back out of the doorway like with haynets if i'm putting a haynet into a horses while there in there i want the horse to moved until iv'e finished theirs plenty of horses iv'e seen not being asked and ignoring the cue to move.
Others iv'e seen try their best to sort the problems with the horse some who may have picked up bad habits from previous owners.


it all depends on the horse i think
 
amymay said:
Some horses simply have no personality - some are nasty - some are indifferent.

I've known all of the above. All beautifully handled, produced and cared for, so can't blame their owner.
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Totally agree. I hate it when people say that everything comes down to how they're handled. A horse is not a lump of plastacine, it has bloodlines and genes that produce characteristics.

I worked on a yard with three sister mares, and they were all so alike in personality (although had all been bred on that yard). I have also known a few sisters and half sisters to my mare, who have had noticeable similarities.

Some of the annoying horses that I have not liked over the years HAVE been down to how the owners handling them though, they babied them and weren't firm enough with them.. One of them ( a DIY we had) went onto full livery at another yard afterwards, and was a much better horse as capable people were handling it too!
 
I think it can be both. My daughters pony is a bit like marmite, people seem to love her or hate her. Although god help anyone who admitted to not liking her in daughters presence. Although she was an aggressive horror at first, that was down to her crap start. These days, she's nothing more than a very strong minded opinionated mare. Because she's young, she of course has her moments of misbehaving, coupled with a naturally confident, cheeky mischievous streak. But, even when she is being a pita, I can't help admiring just how wilful she is. I really like the fact she will metaphorically stick her fingers up on occasion. When she's on your side, she puts just as much effort into being good. I know at least one person who is into chilled geldings who isn't very keen, & in return I find their horses a bit characterless & boring. My mare is actually very similar, but is universally liked. She too had her moments, if anything worse cos I had less experience, when she was young. But, time, rather than temperament mean nobody ever sees her being anything but angelic. I think going for a certain personality of horse is just taste, same as preferring certain physical features.
 
I have 4 who all get handled the same way and all have totally different personality's so, whilst handling has some baring on a horse they are what they are to a degree. One of mine is gentle and sweet and wants to be with me all the time, one couldn't care less, one has a tendency to be a bit full of himself if he isn't constantly corrected and told what is and what isn't acceptable.
 
It is surely the same as with any relationship, some characters get one well, some are indifferent to each other and some actively dislike each other. I have seen all three in people, horses, dogs and cats and across the species. However, it do think that it is incumbent upon the human in the realtionship to mitigate any dislike as far as possible in order to make life as comfortable as possible for the animal concerned.

As a primary school teacher, I actually only ever met a handful of children whom I found it difficult to like but as I was the one in the position of power in the relationship, I made sure that the child was never disadvantaged by my feelings (and hopefully was unaware of them). I would hope that all humans in a position of power over an animal would try to do the same.
 
One of the horses I used to work with was a right PITA she would kick or bite at any opportunity but most especially when she was being girthed and saddled. Personally I think she'd had a not very sensitive owner previously who had thumped the saddle on her back and hoiked the girth right up in one go quite roughly so I didn't think it was her fault, she'd just learned to expect an unpleasant tack up :( I have to say though that even with that belief I really really did not like that horse! I wasn't paying enough attention one day and she took a lovely chunk of skin out of my thigh :mad: I do believe that if she'd been used less harshly in her previous home(s) she'd have been much better though!

My mum's mare is a grumpy faced cowbag but that's just her way and she's not agressive or anything, she just doesn't do happy faces... I'm not a fan :o
 
Well rude horses are generally the owners fault

However I've one of my homebreds I am not overly fond of, I wouldn't sell her, as she's very workmanlike and good to ride. However otherwise not that fussed to see you, wouldn't dream of greeting you unless you were carrying a bucket and it was a guaranteed feed. Basically its her sire and makes her fairly indifferent to people.
 
There is a mare I dislike very much. She has no respect for anything (inc electric fencing), will run over the top of you to get to food, will aggressively stand in your way to stop you from catching one of 'her' herd, if she spies out of the corner of her eye you sneaking a polo mint to your horse in the field she bolts over all guns blazing until she is literally on top of you, she is always in your face, always standing on you, decides when she has had enough of being led and plants her feet for no reason whatsoever... and it's the LOOK on her face. The "I don't give a crap about you and have no respect for you" look that really gets on my tits!!!

I'm not exaggerating when I say all she cares about is food. Really, that is it. If there is no food in the vicinity she will hurt you. If there is food in the vicinity she will ignore you and be unresponsive to anything you are doing/ask her.

I could go on and on.... in this horses case it isn't the owners fault, she has ALWAYS been like this, I do believe she was just born a brat and will never change.
 
However amymay those horses you talk about in your first post did you know and handle them from birth, were they handled by confident horsemen, or were they spoilt, were they turned out with other yearlings and a few older horses to be put in their place or did they just share a field with their mom and maybe another kind old gent, neither of whom would have reprimanded Them.

Did they then go to an owner who wasnt so confident and the minute it acted in a teenage manner the owner got scared so spoilt it more by giving it titbits to control it, or on the other hand beat the **** out of it, so infact poor horsey still did not learn right from wrong, other than how to survive.
 
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