Disqualified for stiffness in back end - help

Fabforester

Fabforester

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My pony is really long in the back and struggles to track up in any gait. He naturally has a very short stroppy stride and will never be an 'amazing' mover but I am still having problems that I would appreciate some advice on.

He has never scored over 56% in a prelim test and I really love dressage and dont want to give up hope.I also love him to bits and would not contemplate selling him.

Last time we competed I rode him on a day ticket and he was actually disqualified for stiffness in his back end.

The judge was very nice but said I needed to get his hindquarters to engage because they really arent doing anything and his back stride is terrible.

I have worked really hard with this little chap but dont seem to be getting any further at the moment.

He is schooled and hacked 5 times a week, and is treated like a king.
I use the pessoa regularly, every 2 to 3 times he is schooled.
We have Weekly lessons with a lovely AI (who has said he is just not built to do dressage and I should stick to jumping him - we have been having lessons with her for over a year).

I am a fairly experienced rider and have competed BD previously, and now with mirrors up in the school and regular videoing I always check my position and balance. Sylvia Loch book pages almost worn away!

I religeously have his Back Teeth Saddle checked to no avail. Have had several second opinions.

Countless Bitting Advice has got us back to basics and he goes well in a plain loose ring sweet iron snaffle.

I literally now am at the point that I will pay anything or do anything to help him.
I have had so many second opinions and most are of the idea I should just give dressage a miss with him but Im just not convinced.
I will do anything to get this little guy tracking up and not disqualified from his dressage - just do do a nice little test!! Please get in touch if you can help. x
 
Hello yes same person just can't seem to renew same post and would be great to hear from a few more people and maybe someone who has overcome this. Have also written to 3 BD trainers in Cornwall to see if can arrange one off training day.
 
He would not be disqualified for not tracking up - they must think he is lame. If he is lame, then that is why he is not tracking up. If the lameness is caused by stiffness, firstly establish why he is stiff, and then treat it. You may find that a supplement will ease his joints and make a difference. It certainly is worth trying. But there is no point in competing if the horse is not sound.

You obviously think the world of your horse, so it is worth trying to remedy this situation.
 
BD judges tend towards great diplomacy when commenting on lame horses so if yours was actually disqualified they must have some fairly serious concerns about him. It is a shame you didnt have chance to have a word with the judge afterwards and I would definitely have his back, saddle and teeth checked before deciding it is a schooling issue.

Perhaps asking a vet to check him over would be a good move.
 
they wouldnt have asked you to leave the arena just because your horse wasnt tracking up, they only ask you to leave if they think the horse is lame/unsound.

how old is your horse?
 
Agree with FMM - think the judge was politely trying to say he was unlevel or lame behind. It would be worth having the vet out to examine to see if there is a lameness problem or whether he just moves strangely due to his conformation.
 
Hello - Yes have had 2 vets from different practices look at him and actually contacted the judge afterwards because of worrying about it so much. He was not lame but 'unsound' - she said he looks like he had a problem with his hips and was not level. She very kindly sent me my test sheet with lots of comments on it and yes, I agree, she was diplomatic at the time - probably the desperation on my face to do well. It is a huge goal of mine and to prove people wrong that he just 'can't do' dressage. See my other discussion. His back is checked religeously and Jean my lovely back lady (McTimoney sphere) has done a lot to help. Vets and physio confirm he has poor conformation and his extremely long back makes life very difficult for him to work from behind. He has never had a days lameness but at 7 he moves like he is 20 (well his back end does anyway). He has overcompensated with his front end and tends to use this whenever he can to avoid having to use hqs. He is on codlivine - has been for a year - and I really am trying to do anything I can. All advice hugely appreciated x
 
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Hello - Yes have had 2 vets from different practices look at him and actually contacted the judge afterwards because of worrying about it so much. He was not lame but 'unsound' - she said he looks like he had a problem with his hips and was not level. She very kindly sent me my test sheet with lots of comments on it and yes, I agree, she was diplomatic at the time - probably the desperation on my face to do well. It is a huge goal of mine and to prove people wrong that he just 'can't do' dressage. See my other discussion. His back is checked religeously and Jean my lovely back lady (McTimoney sphere) has done a lot to help. Vets and physio confirm he has poor conformation and his extremely long back makes life very difficult for him to work from behind. He has never had a days lameness but at 7 he moves like he is 20 (well his back end does anyway). He has overcompensated with his front end and tends to use this whenever he can to avoid having to use hqs. He is on codlivine - has been for a year - and I really am trying to do anything I can. All advice hugely appreciated x

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Hiya
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He sounds just like Trike in the way he goes and some of the problems he has !

Trike can look like a hobbling cripple and it can almost be embarrassing to ride him for the first few minutes until he starts to loosen up a bit. He has been through numerous vets and vet hospitals trying to find out what the problems are, but no-one has ever really come up with a definitive answer
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We accept that he will never do dressage (not that i'd particularly want to lol!), but he still jumps happily enough when he wants to
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The best analysis of his condition seems to be that he has weak stifles and thus finds it hard to work properly behind. This gives the feeling of riding a disunited horse (even in trot if you know what I mean
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) when it is bad
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The regime we are on at the moment with him involves as much as exercise and turnout (yeah, right, in this weather !) as we can physically manage, and a good dose of Cortaflex (started on the HA version, but now to regular!). He is definitely better than he was, but I guess sometimes we have to accept that our horses just can't always do the things we would like with them
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ETS: He is 7 too, and moves like a 20 yr old at times
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Oh, that sounds just like my horse. It is upsetting esp when vets / physios etc can't 'solve' your problem. Like yours, he will jump quite happily, loves his hunting, hacking etc. Do you think we should try cortaflex?
 
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Oh, that sounds just like my horse. It is upsetting esp when vets / physios etc can't 'solve' your problem. Like yours, he will jump quite happily, loves his hunting, hacking etc. Do you think we should try cortaflex?

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Well, we were like you, and decided we'd try anything
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As I said, we started on the mega high-dose stuff (Cortaflex HA I think
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) which is about £50 for a months supply, then went onto the 'normal' stuff which is about £50 for 3 months worth. We believe it is helping him...he certainly gets going quicker than he used to (it used to be 20 minutes before he would stop hobbling around in trot, whereas now it's probably a couple of circuits of the school!). He does still have bad days, but they are fewer and farther between. Of course, it may all be down to the increased workload that he is now getting too, but who knows
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Hmmm. As P_G first mentioned, you dont get disqualified from dressage for not tracking up. They will do so for lameness. Also as Sparklet mentioned, the judge saying the horses is "unsound" is in all truth saying he is lame.

I think first off you need to establish exactly whats going on since the judge clearly thought he was lame and you clearly think he just doesnt track up.

You said you'd be willing to spend anything on getting him sorted. My honest opinion? Try having him referred to a specialist for scans and possible gait analysis.

If he's not right, theres no point in drilling away at dressage because the judges are expected to disqualify based on unsoundness. Equally, its all well and good giving a joint supplement but do you know for sure thats where the issue lies without further diagnostics?
 
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Completely agree.

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I do agree...and would just add that in Trike's case nearly £5k was spent on analysis that proved totally inconclusive
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(Ask Kelly1982 if you need details lol!)
 
There is a horse on my yard being PTS today, not one of mine. In short he is a big fairly young warmblood that was bought to event. He always had a bit of a paddling back action but passed the vet and went on to do entry level events with success and was ready to move up a level until at one event he collapsed after a showjump - his back end just went.
After some time away it transpired there was a problem with the nerves through his neck that had never been identified before, and could not be repaired. He came back for field rest pending a final decision but would occasionally drag his back toes and sometimes skid into a heap in the field.
I am not telling you this to frighten you, or suggest this is the problem with your horse, but to point out that there are many reasons a horse doesn't move correctly behind, it could be a conformation fault, an injury, a schooling issue.

If you are really serious about getting to the bottom of what the problem is, and can eliminate schooling and local stiffness, there is further diagnostic work that can be done, but it is very expensive and your insurers may not cover it, if the horse can stil be ridden generally.
 
OK thanks for all advice. Vet coming next Mon to yard so have asked them to come in and have a chat with me at same time, and go from there. Will keep you all posted and sorry to hear about the warmblood. x
 
Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
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It's not what you want to hear, I'm sure, but you may just have to face that what you are asking is very, very difficult for your horse. That doesn't mean proper work won't improve him or that having him supple and fit won't be to his benefit, but he just may not have it to be competative to the extent you want. It's great to be ambitious and proud of your horse but please consider his best interests too. Essentially forcing him to continue in something he seems to have little aptitude for is not making him happy or healthy, it's making him uncomfortable enough to warrant comment from other people. They are not trying to be mean or put you down, they are trying to get you to see what might be best for your horse.

Alas, sometimes wanting something very badly is not enough. And horses don't really understand about ambition. All he knows is that you are frustrated and upset, presumably (so far as he knows) with him and uinhappy with the effort he's putting forth, even though he is trying so hard it seems to be making him sore.

Sorry to be harsh but you can see it from his point of view.

Try the supplements - sometimes they help a lot. You can also look into supportive therapies, such as acupuncture, energy therapies etc. Does your vet have any thoughts? Does the horse flex okay etc? Perhaps he has damage from his conformation that makes it impossible for him to do what you're asking. In which case it's not really fair to ask, at least until you make him more comfortable.

I'd recommend getting a consultation with an instructor who has a slightly different approach than you are used to, whatever that might be. Such a person might be able to see the situation somewhat differently and see options you've missed. At the very least, it's another perspective to help you accurately assess the situation.

Horses are stoics. They will try until they break because that's how nature has designed them. But that doesn't mean it doesn't cost them. It's our idea to keep them in boxes and take them to shows and do all the weird stuff we do so it's up to us to make that as pleasant a job as possible.

Good luck.
 
Could I suggest that if you do not already rug him up in the day and at night see if this helps. He may have a draught in his stable which is causing problems. Something else that may help him is Linseed as this is a natural anti-flamitory. I use the Simple Systems Linseed and it works wonders on both my old horses. I have found it has improved their movement. I tried Cortaflex for several years but it did not seem to improve things.
 
This is actually the response to the PM you sent me about the thread on Bute X inthe Veterinary forum, it would let me reply.

Hi!

Let me guess it's a NF pony? So is mine! He has a choppy trot and difficulties tracking up because he's stiff behind and used to occasionally take short strides with one of his hind legs. The Movefree Plus was very good, but my Physio recomended changing him onto Cortaflex as he is always having back problems. However my budget couldn't stretch to £50/month on a joint supplement! So I was recomended a supplement by a company called Vetvits called Equiflex which apparently is very close in ingredients to Cortaflex but a fraction of the price as they are a Jersey based company and so you don't pay VAT! You have to buy it mail order, it is not sold in the shops which keeps the price down. He has been even better since he's been on that and I'd highly recomend it (it's cheaper too!). My boy now happily tracks up and never takes a short step. Later on in that thread someone else mentioned that they use it too.


I'd also like to add though that my boy is not long in the back so his problem was not conformation he is just stiff in his hocks/stifle and wasn't using himself properly.
 
A prelim test is just basic walk, trot and canter. To be honest if the horse cant manage that it wont be much use for anything.

Loved your sing pig analogy BTW
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.., just not sure it is applicable to a horse working at this level.
 
Can you PM me. I am in your neck of the woods and I think I may be able to give you another option to look in to.

I tried pming you but it appears you aren't accepting them.

Thanks
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