Disrespectful horse in Stable and Field

[StaceyTanglewood]

ok guys i need your wisdom on this one !!

I have a livery who is a little novicy she moved to mine about 8 months ago - she is a lovely lady but the horse is a nightmare bolshy, bargy and just rude

It barges her out the way and gets away with it and tries to do the same to us but it just doesnt seem to learn ???

in the morning it wants to be the first out then once in the field as soon as you bring any of the horses in to ride it paces up and down the gate cos it thinks it should come in - ive brought it in then does its nut cos it doesnt want to be in on its own ??

if you try and leave it out it paces up and down the fence causing a massive hole (that is how much it paces) this can be anytime of the day to ??

it stable is indoors and is the first one - if you bring it in it bites all the rest of the horses and if you tie it up then it messes its bed up so when it gets bargy round the gate i have tied it up to the fence (with bailing twine) to bring the rest of them in first and it digs a huge hole so i tied it on the concrete and it just paws the ground over and over again -

the rest of the horses have impeccible manners but this one just dont seem to learn?

HELP !!!!!!!!

 

[vieshot]

shoot it lol

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

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shoot it lol

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he he trust me that has crossed my mind !

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

no one any ideas !

 

[samstar]

A calmer?

 

[pinktiger]

eeerrrmmm hobbles!!! no sorry on a serious note i have xperience of these type of horses on livery yards and whilst the bargy pushy nature must be contained, it does sound like a stressy type(annoyingpaininthebackside, is the scientific name) and imo you will never alter the way it is(its got away with too much already)!!!! Maybe try a calmer, you know as mentioned above the silver variety (thats a joke)

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

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A calmer?

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on one already though its not a nutter its jsut rude !

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

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eeerrrmmm hobbles!!! no sorry on a serious note i have xperience of these type of horses on livery yards and whilst the bargy pushy nature must be contained, it does sound like a stressy type(annoyingpaininthebackside, is the scientific name) and imo you will never alter the way it is(its got away with too much already)!!!! Maybe try a calmer, you know as mentioned above the silver variety (thats a joke)

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not tried that but tried cross tieing it to the fence so it could not move and the brick wall was infront of its legs - it snapped 2 leadropes and a headcoller then pulled the metal ring out the fence !

 

[stencilface]

Maybe try some natural horsemanship? Horse might just need to remember the boundaries of your space etc. I know there's someone near me who does this kind of thing (yorks).

Failing that, can said horse be turned out with a companion 24/7 so doesn't have the excess energy to be a pain in the bum?

 

[chestnut cob]

You might not like the answer to this...

I have one like this, or can be, and I got to the end of my tether with him last year. Ended up, as a last resort, having a Kelly Marks Recommended Associate out because I had exhausted every other avenue. Amazing difference afterwards - horse would now never dream of barging anyone, doesn't bugger off at the gate as soon as it gets to the field, and generally a much more chilled out person.

However, and this is the difficult bit, the RA spent more time working on me and teaching me how to teach him how he was expected to behave (does that sentence make sense??). And I have to be consistent with him. Also, the Dually worked wonders. I used to have to lead in a chiffney and he would still rear in that. Leads in a normal headcollar again now, just has the chiffney for loading.

The owner is going to have to be responsible and learn how to manage her horse IMO.

 

[welshied]

The owner needs to do ground work with her horse and establish whos boss, i also had a bargy cobs alot worse than the one you are describing he ran off etc and he wnt off to a specialist trainer and it was all ground work like lungeing etc if you leave him on his own he is just going to get stressed they are usually the horses that worry alot and need a routine and like every thing in black and white with no grey areas

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

[ QUOTE ]
You might not like the answer to this...

I have one like this, or can be, and I got to the end of my tether with him last year. Ended up, as a last resort, having a Kelly Marks Recommended Associate out because I had exhausted every other avenue. Amazing difference afterwards - horse would now never dream of barging anyone, doesn't bugger off at the gate as soon as it gets to the field, and generally a much more chilled out person.

However, and this is the difficult bit, the RA spent more time working on me and teaching me how to teach him how he was expected to behave (does that sentence make sense??). And I have to be consistent with him. Also, the Dually worked wonders. I used to have to lead in a chiffney and he would still rear in that. Leads in a normal headcollar again now, just has the chiffney for loading.

The owner is going to have to be responsible and learn how to manage her horse IMO.

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yes i know what you mean and to be honest horse is fine with me and groom - if he tries to drag us ill back him up and make him stand etc etc !!

its the field problem though the fact when ever something else come in he thinks he is missing out even at 10am in the morning - they have a lovely field full of grass but he just paces up and down !!

and the pawing ive ignored him for hours and he still does it !

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

just discussing with my groom and we are thinking of:

a) feeding him in the field day and night instead of the stable
b) teaching owner how to control him and do the same as we do
c) not giving him any treats or any hay when he comes in to be ridden at all nothing so he associates the field with food instead of his stable x

 

[chestnut cob]

You are spot on with b. I definitely think the owner needs to learn how to handle him properly - he needs consistency. If she lets him get away with murder and then you try to discipline him, he probably has no idea where he stands. As soon as mine knew what was acceptable and what wasn't, he turned into an absolute lamb.

I think feeding in the field is a good idea as well, hopefully he will start to associate it with feed then. Not sure about no hay in the stable but I guess it depends on how long he's in for?

 

[Flame_]

Shedloads of hard work, swap stables to one where it can't bite anyone, leave its bed up during the day so when it p!sses about it doesn't trash it too much. Some horses just find life hard to deal with and don't want to play along with our little systems which is a pain for us but worth putting up with if he's a good horse for the novice IMO.

One of our driving ponies box sprints when he's in, gets laminitis when he's out, goes ape when any other horse so much as gets tied up out of his sight, head-butts, rein chews and worries about life in general, but he does a good job so we just take him as he is and he's worth his weight in gold.

 

[chestnut cob]

Does he have company in the field? Mine also stopped all of the silliness in the field (he would canter up and down the fence boundaries all day long) once he knew where he stood. It was as though, when he thought he had to be in charge, he always thought he had to be where everyone else was. Once I got the handling under control, he chilled out so much that he didn't care about the others.

I don't know how I dealt with the pawing really. I think I used to just back him up, bring him forwards, all of that stuff. Anything to show him the behaviour wasn't acceptable and that I controlled what he did with his feet. But he seemed to stop it when everything else stopped TBH.

 

[canteron]

My vote goes for b) and a dually halter (expensive but they work if used properly) which might be a relatively easy way for your client to show the horse she means business!

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

[ QUOTE ]
You are spot on with b. I definitely think the owner needs to learn how to handle him properly - he needs consistency. If she lets him get away with murder and then you try to discipline him, he probably has no idea where he stands. As soon as mine knew what was acceptable and what wasn't, he turned into an absolute lamb.

I think feeding in the field is a good idea as well, hopefully he will start to associate it with feed then. Not sure about no hay in the stable but I guess it depends on how long he's in for?

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I mean when she brings it in for farrier/vet or to ride - normally brings it in ties up and give haynet while grooming (i think this is just for some piece) so if it has nothing when it comes in or treats should start to dissassociate the yard/stable with being fed

ive said if she wants to give it a carrot its to be done when taken back to the field and to be walked away from the gate and given on the floor

 

[vieshot]

before you turn him out hammer the legs off him so hes to exhausted to be an [****]!

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

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Shedloads of hard work, swap stables to one where it can't bite anyone, leave its bed up during the day so when it p!sses about it doesn't trash it too much. Some horses just find life hard to deal with and don't want to play along with our little systems which is a pain for us but worth putting up with if he's a good horse for the novice IMO.

One of our driving ponies box sprints when he's in, gets laminitis when he's out, goes ape when any other horse so much as gets tied up out of his sight, head-butts, rein chews and worries about life in general, but he does a good job so we just take him as he is and he's worth his weight in gold.

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cant swap stables as the ones further up are 10x10 and he is 16.3 so needs to be in 12x12

cant put him in another barn as that means he would be in my own horses barn with my mares and foals probably not the best teacher for them !!

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

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Does he have company in the field? Mine also stopped all of the silliness in the field (he would canter up and down the fence boundaries all day long) once he knew where he stood. It was as though, when he thought he had to be in charge, he always thought he had to be where everyone else was. Once I got the handling under control, he chilled out so much that he didn't care about the others.

I don't know how I dealt with the pawing really. I think I used to just back him up, bring him forwards, all of that stuff. Anything to show him the behaviour wasn't acceptable and that I controlled what he did with his feet. But he seemed to stop it when everything else stopped TBH.

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yes out with 3 other horses and a pony which 2 of them are out 24/7 so is never on his own - as i said it doesnt have to be in the evening it can be 10am in the morning and it doesnt have to be a horse from his field it can be one of the others ??

 

[sare_bear]

I have a mare like this. Paws the ground if the only one in, and difficult to tack up, spins around etc, just a general pain. If out shes fine until another horse moves then looses the plot up and down the fence line, even though she has others in the field. She just stresses and cant cope if anything changes. The only way I have found to deal with it is, was to move to a small yard where horses dont tend to move about much and she is greatly improved.

Sorry that doesnt help you much.

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a mare like this. Paws the ground if the only one in, and difficult to tack up, spins around etc, just a general pain. If out shes fine until another horse moves then looses the plot up and down the fence line, even though she has others in the field. She just stresses and cant cope if anything changes. The only way I have found to deal with it is, was to move to a small yard where horses dont tend to move about much and she is greatly improved.

Sorry that doesnt help you much.

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wont help the owner either as she needs as much help as she can get - yard only has 8 liveries x

 

[Vicki1986]

it sounds a lot like he doesnt suit the routine there.

when i was on DIY, Wills kicked the door to go out / be fed, would drag you out the stable, and paced the field gate regularly to be brought in. after a month she got the runs as she was upset with her routine and got stressed out.soon as i moved her to full liv she stopped all the above and was very quiet and [mostly] well behaved.

if she really wants to stick it out she needs to do some serious groundwork with him and address the fact that he doesn't sound happy with his routine. in my mind, the cause for his pacing should be identified and remedied, not reprimanded as even if he is a rude git it sounds like he is unsettled.

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

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it sounds a lot like he doesnt suit the routine there.

when i was on DIY, Wills kicked the door to go out / be fed, would drag you out the stable, and paced the field gate regularly to be brought in. after a month she got the runs as she was upset with her routine and got stressed out.soon as i moved her to full liv she stopped all the above and was very quiet and [mostly] well behaved.

if she really wants to stick it out she needs to do some serious groundwork with him and address the fact that he doesn't sound happy with his routine. in my mind, the cause for his pacing should be identified and remedied, not reprimanded as even if he is a rude git it sounds like he is unsettled.

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what routine would you put him in then ??? if you leave him in he does the same thing !

 

[Vicki1986]

hobbled in the field! kidding.
i just know how much of a pain in the arse it is to have something like that, i thought it was just how W was then i moved her and it literally all stopped, was weird. she obv just was unhappy where she was before (she was out on her own and they were all fed at diff times which i think were the main problems for her)
is it worked enough to keep him occupied? its no fun handling a bolshy horse especially if its a biggun.

 

[legaldancer]

I can't offer any suggestions, just sympathy.

I had a livery like yours & horse was allowed to behave badly & be rude, & was a complete pain in the backside. The owner, was seldom around so I had to deal with it & it was annoying to see my paddock, fencing & stables get trashed, but at the same time, the money was very handy.

She used to come along at night & feed it a bag of carrots over the door & whisper sweet nothings in its ears!

One time it went too far & I told her what I thought of it - owner took offence & left. I must admit, I don't miss the horse one bit & my horses are now happier & easier to manage too, however, I'm sorry to have upset the owner. It's a tricky one.

 

[toomanyhorses26]

give him to me!!!!

only kidding !!! my biggie thrives on routine (was a racer so everything was v regimented) so when he first came to me he was a bit all over the shop but I found riding everyday and making things consistent so his routine would be 7.30 am fed 8.30 am out to field 5pm back in groomed,tacked up 5.30pm ridden for an hour - consisted of hard work lots of canter lateral work etc enough to make him sweat!! 6.30pm finish riding cool down timeand fed 7.15pm back to fieldor stable depending on time of year . I t has got to the stage where I can have a day off riding if needed (finally!!) and things don't go to pot immediately. In terms of ground work the only exercise that really helped was walking a few steps and then stopping - idea is the horse should stop with you ie not barge pass or lag behind. If the horse doesn't stop then sharp checks on the headcollar( a couple at most) then walk on again and repeat if needed . I had to start this with a stallion chain but my horse will do this now with a normal headcollar.