DIY Livery contract

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mememe

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Recently got a new yard manager who is the ultimate wrecking ball of incompetence for various reasons.

My latest bug bear with it is the new livery contract it has devised.

There are various clauses in it which are utterly hysterical but there are a couple which I just want to check are not standard practice before I set the contract alight and tell her where to shove it....

The first is that she expects me to hand over my horses passport to her (the actual passports not just a photocopy). Now my horse is up to date with everything and I have no objection to producing it whenever nor do I object to providing a photocopy but the actual document itself?! I wouldn't trust her to look after Biro let alone something as expensive/ important as my horses passport!! I compete/ travel to training a lot therefore I will need access to it all the time. She only works mon-fri (actually she doesn't really work at all) what happens when I need it at the weekend?! Emergency trip to the vets!? The list goes on....

Am I being unreasonable to want to look after my own horses passport!?


The other issue was the fact that if I am more than three months late paying the bills she will sell my horse to recover the costs. I would willingly pay the bills if I received what I am meant to and she fulfilled her side of the contract but for now I will hang on to my money and use it to pay the vets bills inflicted on my by her incompetence. She is also yet to bill me on time so I further fail to see why I should pay on time....

Is this standard in other livery contracts? Shes also not getting her mitts on my passport so good luck selling without that!
 
Please go with the first option and set the contract alight and shove it...


I wouldn't give passports over to anyone, have heard of some YO's requesting this but I think its more to stop owners trying run away from grotty yards.

There is a window of a few hours in which passports need to be produced, but I've never come across one of these instant checks on an ordinary livery yard. Can't imagine any YO being able to get owners to leave work/holiday to run over with passports asp.


She does sound like a twit, the bit about selling your horse if bills are 3 months in arrears is complete twaddle.
 
Neither of those are in my livery contract, and to be honest I wouldn't stay at a yard where either was in it.
I wouldn't trust anyone else with my horses passport!!
 
Horse rider - I'm definitely headed in that direction! She can have a gawp at it whenever she likes (he's a fancy pants - I think it intimidates her so even better). She goes beyond twit - she defines everything that is wrong with the industry today!

Tinsel town - glad I'm not being hysterical over nothing!
 
I've heard of the passport one Iv'e never known anyone actually handing them over I got asked for it once said no and was still allowed on the yard..
 
The passport should stay with you, you are the person responsible for the horse as it is DIY, I usually have my liveries passports but they are full liveries which is different I deal with vets visits and often transport them but the owners can get them at any time.
 
My yard keeps my passport, and I can get it whenever I need it. I don't have a problem with that and I couldn't guarantee to get it to the yard on demand if it was needed.

I've heard of similar payment clauses too, but as others have said it sounds like you have a lot to sort out...
 
None of those clauses are in my contract. When I worked on a full livery yard we asked for passports as some owners we saw once in a blue moon and some horses were there to be sold.
I understand the passport should be kept with the horse but unless the rule has changed in the last 3 years we were told as long as we could produce the passport with in 3 hours that was fine. I'm sure if the OP had a phone call she would produce the passport in this time.
As for the selling of the horse to repay livery costs, 3 months doesn't sound like a long time and supposing your horse was worth £10,000 but another liveries was just £200 and the bill was £500, how does that work? Who pays the rest for the cheaper horse and who gets the rest from the more expensive horse?
 
I have no problem with the yo holding our passport. It's standard practice on our yard. They are kept safe & we just ask for it when we go to shows etc.

Afaik the passport must be able to be produced within 3 hours if checked, which can't always be done if I keep it at home. I wouldn't want my to to get £1000 fine!!
 
I was on a very good yard and these clauses were in the contract and are not at all unusual. Altho I was on part livery.

The passport should be kept with the horses keeper.

With part livery or full livery that will normally be YO. With DIY it would however be whoever can more likely be quaranteed to get to the yard if inspectors come within the required 4 hour period out of the YO and owner, plus whoever is likely to attend emergency vet callouts and whoever is likely to attend if horse needs transporting routinely or emergency. That may well be the owner in this case.

I think you need to discuss the above considerations re your horse with YO to decide which is appropriate for your DIY case.

. Your horses is with them, would have thought that was more of a worry if they are that untrustworthy! One of the first criteria when assessing a yard ought to be am I happy for this person to hold the PP. In any case we alll know that replacement passports are easy to acquire so I dont think it especially increases the risks atm.

The 'lien' clause, where YO can sell horse if livery unpaid, is competely reasonable in my opinion, why on earth should the owner waltz off with the horse to the next YO victim when they owe 3 months money at the old yard and YO is out of pocket? it is just formalising what the YO could enforce through the courts anyway but more longwinded process.
 
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Irishcobs said:
None of those clauses are in my contract. When I worked on a full livery yard we asked for passports as some owners we saw once in a blue moon and some horses were there to be sold.
I understand the passport should be kept with the horse but unless the rule has changed in the last 3 years we were told as long as we could produce the passport with in 3 hours that was fine. I'm sure if the OP had a phone call she would produce the passport in this time.
As for the selling of the horse to repay livery costs, 3 months doesn't sound like a long time and supposing your horse was worth £10,000 but another liveries was just £200 and the bill was £500, how does that work? Who pays the rest for the cheaper horse and who gets the rest from the more expensive horse?
Click to expand...

The way it works is once the horse is sold the money owing is deducted. Often there is still a shortfall but if there is an excess, the remainder of the money is returned to the horse owner. Simples.
 
it does not happen where i keep mine but its standard practice on yards with good organisation and high standards.

the money owing one makes very good business sense and as so many yards are being left with dumped horses and huge debts from owners the yard is protecting itself from incurring other peoples debts. why should a yard wait more than three months to re-coop money owing?

how long would you expect them to wait?
 
I would not accept anyone on my yard if they did not want to sign the contract with the second clause in it. It is only going to effect you if you don't pay your bills, so why should it be something to worry about?
 
Passports really ought be with the yard .
I would have no issue with signing the second clause about paying .
Yards may well get much more careful about holding passports with all the current fuss.
 
If a horse is on part or DIY livery, the YO should not hold the passport. The person who has day to day responsibility should keep it.
For most horses in the UK, if kept on a livery yard or rented field, that would mean the owner.

However, my interpretation, which could be wrong, but isn't clear in the guidelines, is that even if your horse was on full livery but you see it everyday to oversee its care, then you would still be having day to day control.
 
id happily produce my passport on request for anyone..... id give my YO a copy of all pages but i wouldnt hand my passport over....we need it :)

my horse is vaccinated upto date/wormed/worm counted and tapeworm tested a month ago (all clear) is happily provide copies of all this too....


but i dont feel it within reason for you yard owner OP to actualyl keep the passport??

if you are going to do a runner, the most precious thing is there - the horse?! and if you have paid a week/month in advance then you woudlnt be doing a runner anyhow?
 
TBH they sound badly worded but actually well intentioned clauses.

Passport should be with the 'keeper' of the horse (no definition of who that is) on DIY I would have though that is the owner but if there is a YM with overall responsibility for the condition of horses on the property equally an arguement it's the YM. Clearly a practical consideration needs to be made so passports stored somewhere accessable but secure (I can't really think how this would work as a big pile of passports in a combination locked box/ draw in the tackroom would be very risky IMHO.
(In reality I wouldn't hand over my horses passport for anything and I have the passport for my horse which is out on loan)

Taking a lein over the horse for unpaid debts is pretty common, can you suggest some wording that makes it clear that invoices are due within 2 weeks of receipt by the owner (ie you won't be overdue if she doesn't bother to issue an invoice for a month) and that disputed amounts on invoices should be raised within 2 weeks of receipt in writing and that the 'overdue' amount will not include amounts in formal dispute (so if you disagree with what you have been charged for that is a separate issue)

Overall if you trust the YM that little I'd be looking for a new yard.
 
As a DIY YO I don't keep passports!!! When my boy was on livery at a yard a few years ago now, he was on full/working livery, so they kept the passport and I didn't have any problem with that. That's different to DIY - and I wouldn't ever expect to be keeping anyone's passport.

Re. the selling your horse to recover any debt: mmm, sounds like this YO has been "had" by someone jumping ship and not paying their debts, so I do have some sympathy, but legally I would think she'd be sailing into stormy waters here. But IF she's been caught in the past, then can understand why she's trying to put it into the livery contract.

OP you don't sound at all happy with your current set-up, so for everyone's sake I think you should look for somewhere else PDQ. If you don't feel, for whatever reason, that you and your YO are going to get on, then I think you should leave. I certainly wouldn't want an unhappy livery on my yard, its upsetting for everyone.
 
As a YO I don't keep owner's passports, except for a couple of full liveries whose owners travel a lot, although I know a lot of yards that do. Agree with general opinion that if you're DIY and can produce as soon as required then it's not needed at the yard.

Re the 3 month clause we have this in our contract, when we started taking liveries about ten years ago it was in the contract template set out by the BHS, and most yards I know who offer proper contracts have it in there as a clause. It has always been signed by our clients without question and thankfully we have never come close to trying it out! Tbh anyone who intends to pay on time wouldn't bat an eyelid at it in my opinion and if anyone refused to agree to it, they wouldn't come - simple.

It sounds as though you've got a lot of issues with this YO, may be a good idea to talk them through with her as if you withhold payment it will just get nasty, airing any grievences face to face is always the best course of action in my opinion, you may be able to work out some of the problems between you :)
 
TBH I wouldn't be getting my knickers in a twist over those clauses. Although I would want to make sure I had access to the passport 24/7.
 
In theory the passport should stay at the yard where the horse is kept.
I would suggest that one way of getting round the passport issue is to get two copies made of it and get a solicitor to verify that they are each a true copy of it. Then keep one copy at the yard and another in your lorry.
 
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