DIY Livery Yard - what is included

Cyclops

Cyclops

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Hi Advice please - I am lucky enough not to have had to keep my horse on a livery yard BUT my son is trying to reoganise the running of one at the moment. What would you expect to be included - at the moment the yard are organising shoeing and vaccinations for all the horses on full, part and DIY and paying for these up front and then invoicing the clients. I'm afraid I just can't get my head round the yard paying out for vets and farriers up front and then invoicing DIY owners - I would fully expect to be organising these things myself and if I couldn't be there to hold horse etc then organise that with the yard but I would certainly not expect a livery yard to pay my bills for me and then invoice me - seems like a huge amount of extra admin work to me - comments please!!! By the way - it is quite a large yard and I understand a few bills run up over a period of time.
 
I've been on DIY and I'd rather pay for vaccinations etc. myself and not have this via the yard.
Just seems like a headache all round.. :confused:
 
On ours (which suits us very well) we have a stable, 2 fields and a lockable tack room. Electricity/ water included in the bill. Everything else we organise ourselves... Prefer it, as often people will have a specific farrier they use and a specific practise and won't change. If he wants to ensure that all horses are correctly vaccinated and up to date, he can put a clause in the contract stating they must be?
 
Thanks Lolo - I agree - far easier for the DIYers to organise it themselves but they keep the horses passports in the office so they can easily keep a check on when the horses need their jabs on computer and maybe send out an automated reminder by email to the owners - but I think it's crazy admin wise for them to be organising the vets and paying up front - leaves the door open for late payers and that's how yards go under. The same applies to the farrier - If they have 30 odd horses (I don't know how many they have accurately) and they are checking shoes and organising farrier for DIYers as well as the full and part liveries - it's a logistical nightmare - particularly if they are also paying the farrier up front and then invoicing the DIYers - so probably not getting reimbursed for 30 days - Average £70.00 per horse - 30+ horses on 30 days credit - It looks like a cash flow nightmare to me???
 
They could check when the horse arrives, spreadsheet it up and keep a calender in the tack room with the dates on, with a reminder about 2 weeks in advance?
 
Our yard sorts out the worming but we sort out everything else. Generally we get a few people together to keep call out costs down.
 
Yes the worming sounds sensible to be centrally organised so they are all done together - I will pass on you comments but it seems to me that the yard should organise worming and let the owners sort out shoes and vaccs - but have an email system to remind owners when vaccs are due - the yard hold the passports so they can tick off when the vaccs are done. But that would solve any cash flow problems and stop bills from building up.

Thanks
 
I am on a "farm" DIY yard run by a non horsey farmer. We pay a monthly rent and that inlcudes stable, grazing, storage, use of an arena and hacking. There are no services and everyone sorts out between ourselves is we need help. Farmer provides field and facilities maintenance, hay and straw deliveries which are invoiced monthly and that is that! He does keep an eye on the fields (individual turnout) and will speak to anyone who is not keeping up to date with poo picking and ragwort etc. I organise worming for the yard, simply as it suits me to buy in volume so everyone benefits, I just put up a notice, people put their names down, I work out how much it will cost, collect he money and order, no money, no wormer! Our yard tends to attract people who like a nice tidy clean yard and well kept horses, as DIY yards in the area go it is probably least "managed" but best kept as the liveries have a real pride in the yard.
 
I am a DIY YO.

Basically I provide a stable, tackroom, and water, plus suitable fencing. It is my responsibility to maintain said fencing, plus provide water, and do such remedial work to the field/yard etc as is necessary.

I do NOT provide feed, bedding, hay and that sort of thing. Livery "does" for herself in all respects. Neither do I bring in or turn out. However because I live on the place I do maintain a watching brief and would notify the livery if anything was wrong with her horses.

But I certainly would never organise vets or shoeing: that is the livery's choice and her responsibility.

IMO if YO is organising this and then billing the livery, it ain't DIY, no way. That would be more assisted livery I would have thought?

DIY is DIY, no frills attached & livery is free to organise everything herself.
 
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DIY is probably the most varied category of them all. My yard all I do is keep the horse there. Vacs, shoes, vets, bringing in, turning out, mucking out, changing rugs ect is all left to me which is what I like, I have FULL control over my horse and no one interfering. Now all the liveries on my yard club together and if we have a vet or farrier or saddler coming out, we put up a notice so if anyone else needs them then we all club together for call-outs ect. The cost is very cheap which is understandable but the owners are always willing to do something for free.

HOWEVER, Some DIY yards offer rug changes, bring in/turnout, mucking out and even exercising your horse for you at an additional cost. Be careful when running a livery yard. Don't offer DIY and then say we do this this and this, if owners want all the extras, they would just skip DIY and go for a part livery.

IMO a DIY is exactly that and as long as you are able to offer some help if a person is really stuck, you will never have an empty stable.
 
DIY to me is stable, grazing, use of facilities. (although have paid extra for use of ménage and walker at one yard) sometimes the YO provides hay and straw which of course is extra.
 
If there's full and part liveries there as well could be a helpful thing to put up a note saying x farrier/vet is coming on y day. If you want shoeing give me the money for the shoes up front and horse will get done. Vet would have to be paid directly but then owner billed for handling etc.
 
My yard organises worming which is added to the bill, we have a yard farrier who comes every Wednesday so you just put your name down when your horse needs doing (although I use a different farrier and pay him myself) and YO will pay on your behalf and add it to your bill, she can also order any feed or bedding you need from a feed merchants which delivers and again pays and adds it to your bill. She will however only do this for clients who regularly pay their bills on time, and she adds 10% which I think is reasonable. If you are late with your bill she won't do this again until you have paid on time for 3 months in a row.
I actually find it quite useful as if I haven't got the cash to pay for feed/bedding t the time I need things then I know my horse doesn't have to go without as I can pay her back at the end of the month when I know I will have the money.

Our "basic" DIY includes feeding, t/o and b/i, assisted includes rugging/hay and water on top of that and then there is a couple of part liveries as well. She does offer extras as well which are obviously paid for IE £1 for bringing in during the day for farrier etc. We get stable, separate lock-ups for feed (shared between 2/3), separate hay stores (again shared between 2/3), locked & alarmed tack room and use of a schooling "area" which is actually a fenced off part of one of the fields however there is a 20x40m sand and rubber school at her other yard which we can use FOC in exchange for poo picking. Horses are turned out in 1 herd of about 7/8 (at the moment we have "day" horses and "night" horses depending on when they go out) and we usually do a group poo-picking session once a week. Anyone who regularly misses sessions has £3.50 added to their bill per session, which I think is fair, and besides because we do it together it's usually a good laugh!
 
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I'm on DIY - I pay £120 a month per horse which includes stable, grazing, use of arena and miles of off-road hacking. Hay is £37.50 a month per horse (1 haynet per day).

Nothing else at all is included, I sort out my own vet/farrier/EDT/feed/bedding etc, there is no option for assisted DIY either everyone helps each other.

DIY is what it says, you do it yourself!!
 
I have my horses on DIY. I'm their only DIYer - they prefer to do part or full livery but made an exception.

I get a stable each for them, haylage/hay, straw, grazing, room in the feed room for my bins and use of a tackroom (although I keep all my tack at home anyway), use of school and horsewalker. Yard does all maintenance etc. They don't charge me to put horses in/out or chuck them a feed or a haynet occasionally but I don't abuse them and probably only need something doing for me once a month or so if I have an emergency at work.

They do worm then bill the liveries - all except for me as I can get wormers at cost price through work so just ensure that I do mine at the same time with the same product.

Knowing how long it takes and how much effort is involved in getting people to pay for their vaccinations I certainly would never pay up front for them. Some people take nearly a year and need several debt collecters letters/small claims court threats before you see the money! I also wouldn't want the responsibilty of looking after their shoeing. If a horse loses a shoe the day before an event it will inevitably be the yard manager's fault!

I do know of a couple of yards who keep the passports but they are both full livery yards and have a lot of horses for owners - basically the yard manager is entirely responsible for the day to day care of the horses so it makes sense. The owners certainly would be unlikely to be present when the vet came. I don't think it's feasible or a good idea for DIY.
 
It very much depends on the yard.

As a YO of a 30 horse yard, we have Grass, DIY, Assisted DIY and Part livery, all of the owners arange the farrier, dentist, vet, etc themselves. We'll quite happily get the horses in and hold for the Parts, all others would have to pay. We also do not mind at all if others help each other out.

They all get the facilities included in their livery, services are extra and they have to buy bedding and forage from us, but we do it as cheap as we can (i.e. we don't bump the price up).

We do all of the maintenence, again something that differs from yard to yard, and we keep on top of it, e.g. arena levelled once or twice per week, fencing is fixed straight away, everything is kept clean and tidy at all times.
 
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Just to add, we do have a worming programme (worm counts and worming) and do organise that and then charge them on their bill at the end of the month that it's done. We also will feed your horse at 6am if you leave a feed out by your stable (that's included in livery).
 
The invoice to the owner should only cover the services provided by the yard. Everything else needs to be paid/invoiced by the supplying company ie vets/farriers etc. If you get one bad payer they could jeopardise the yards credit with the vet etc. also things will get missed. Worming is a tricky one, but you could include the wormer on the invoice before it is due so that it is paid up front as it were. It is the owners responsiblility to be there for the farrier etc or to arrange with the yard that the farrier is coming and that the horse will need to be held/in etc. I have done the accounts for a couple of yards and you only need one client not to pay for a couple of months and it buggers up your cash flow, and its not like you can tie the horse up at the front gate to be collected, they still need to cared for and fed which is all money, and it can take for ever to get the money through the courts. Good luck, if you need any help let me know.
 
Thanks for all your comments - I have told my son to visit this thread so he can act on your suggestions. He was up until the early hours sorting out a database with vaccination dates etc from the passports so that the DIYers can have their passports back. Then the database will automatically email the owners a few weeks before vaccs are due reminding the owners and asking them to confirm when the jab is done so the database can be updated with the new date.
The yard charges only £25.00 per week DIY that is with stable, grazing, use of indoor arenas (2) and large outdoor arena, horse walker and off road hacking so I feel they are getting good value for money and the yard could be justified in adding a small charge for providing someone to be there for the vet/farrier if the horse owner couldn't be there or organise a friend. But certainly agree that they are bonkers to be paying the farrier and vets bills for the DIYers and then billing them.

As far as worming is concerned I think they dish the correct wormers out to the DIYers at the relevant times asking them to administer them and add this to the normal bill.
Thanks everyone.
 
Every DIY yard I've been on has organised worming if it wasn't seperate turnout but everything else is done by the livery. Quite often the YO has let DIYers know when the farrier/vet is coming to give them the chance to get theirs done at the same time and share costs but it's paid up front and if the YO/staff need to be there to hold horse etc that's charged for too.
 
I used to run a big yard (70 boxes) with some full, some part and some DIY liveries.

For the DIY's we had a notice board with a routine vet list and shoeing list, if the DIY's wanted vet or farrier they could put their name down, if they wanted a member of staff to hold the horse they were charged accordingly. It was between them and vet or farrier to arrange payment; usually for farrier they left a cheque.

The only thing I did do for them was worming, as I wanted to make sure it had been given.
 
I'm on a private yard (rent stables/land off a lovely lady who no longer keeps horses) - DIY basis, she provides stables, fields, water, electricity and should anything go wrong she sorts for us.

We sort everything out ourselves - wouldnt want anybody else doing this for me - especially vet visits and telling me how to look after my horses :D
 
DIY is usually just stable grazing and use of facilities but a lot of places that have staff do put morning feeds and hay in so that all horses get fed at the same time. Other than that its up to the individual to organise and leave money for the farrier although the YO will normally arrange for someone to hold the horse if the owner cannot be there for a small charge. Passports are with the YO if the YO cares for the horse so for full or part livery only and for those on DIY a copy is kept. Innoculations at some yards are compulsory and at others its optional but again for DIY its up to the owner to sort out the vet and pay for it all. Its helpful if there is a notice board so people know in advance when the farrier vet or dentist is going to be there so they can put their name down and get payment to the YO in time. Worming is best sorted out by the YO so that all the horses can be done at the same time but other than that DIY is the owner sorts themself out, part livery the horse has mucked out and bedded down stable, turnout bring in, water and hay provided and sometimes feed depending on the yard, and full livery is as for part but with feed feet washing and picked out rug changes, vet and farrier sorted out and horse bought in and held for them, and horse in for when the owner wants to ride. It may also include grooming and tack cleaning but thats down to the yard.
 
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