Dizzy - Bit Issues (looks like we're going bitless!)

MrsMozartletoe

MrsMozartletoe

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Having a bitting issue with the Dizzy one (five year old DW mare - powerful shoulders, light backend)
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So far have tried: straight bar Happy Mouth; Myler broad barrel D-ring snaffle; Myler Pelham; Nathe loose ring snaffle (when with the AHT people); Happy Mouth three ring gag, with lozenge (on big ring).

She's not been happy really in any of them
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Fussy in the mouth. Opening her mouth. Seems to prefer a much firmer contact than I would normally ride with.

Friend has lunged her this evening in the gag, with a Mexican grackle. Dizz had a hissy fit and started shaking, which is her pain response
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Friend, who is experienced horse person but no pushover, was concerned(!) - took the bridle off and lunged her on a headcollar. Immediate softening and relaxation! A much happier horse
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. Friend checked Dizz's mouth and there are no sharp teeth etc. Her teeth were last done in May (power tools, the works); the back man saw her in April. She's been to the AHT for a week for investigation into backend 'high' lameness. She has 'bony irregularites' in her pelvis.

So, it looks like I need to try either a hackamore or a bitless bridle.... A very long time since I've used a hackamore, and don't think I've ever used a bitless bridle.

Any thoughts/ideas/comments?

P.S. We're thinking that the bit issue was a major contributor to Sunday's incident
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Normally I have no issue stopping Dizz, but on Sunday I asked her to slow and her head went straight up and her neck twisted, pulling me forward, and the steering was all to pot
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Could she have wolf teeth coming through, possibly just under the gum. I would get that checked out.

Then i would try a thin mouth french link loose ring snaffle. Then the same wrapped in latex. I would also try a waterford. All of these options allow the bit to move more in the mouth than any of the bits you have tried so far. The horse is therefore more likely to be able to alleviate any discomfort
 
I was going to suggest a thin french link too, especially if she's uncomfortable in single jointed snaffles.

You could try a sweet iron one, maybe you've already tried that.
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I think bits are very much trial and error, but when ours don't like something I tend to go milder not stronger
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Ta
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When at the AHT they tried her in a single joint Nathe loose ring snaffle and said she seemed happier than in the Myler. I tried the Happy Mouth gag as it has the effectively double joint (lozenge); used it on the mildest ring, with the idea that if we needed extra brakes there would be something to go to.

When she came back from the AHT, the first time I rode her and asked for a trot her head went up and she felt for the first time ever like she was going to bomb off
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It took four or five goes to get a decent trot, and then it was only with me talking to her, leaning forward slightly and having a very firm contact. I don't understand! The report from the AHT said that she was fussy in her mouth and that she needed to trust her rider to be happy (the rider bit I knew, she definately looks to her rider for support and reassurance, she'll give you her last ounce of strength).

Am confused
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I'm going to stick my neck out and say the backend/lameness etc issues are causing the bit issues. From my own personal experience and chatting with my physio and dentist who have both found the same thing- back/saddle issues and owners who can't get the right bit for the horse. I've finally solved my back/saddle issues after 15months- and hey presto horsey has a happy mouth (she is also 5 yr old WBxTB)
 
If you take a firmer contact that would lift the bit away from the area of a wolf tooth. She could also be fleshy on the inside of her cheeks, which could get pinched with a straight bar or single joint and a firmer contact would reduce pinching.

Also, a gag would slide when you take a contact and potentially bang on a wolf tooth, until you take a firmer contact then the 'slide' would be at the end, the mouthpiece wouldnt e able to move any more.
 
You could try bitless. Honestly, everyone said I was mad and would be killed but in fact taking the bit away removed so many problems for us. The Bitless Bridle Company do a 30 day trial so you could always just give it a go.
 
I have my TB in the same happy mouth bit on the large ring and she would throw her head a bit. I have now put pelham roundings on and a western curb chain with sheepskin and hey presto, happy horse. Really has mde a world of difference.

Side pulls are good but not sure were to get here, think they're similar to Dr Cook. Have seen the immediate effect of changing from bit to bitless a few tims in my short life. Definitely worth a try.
 
I'd stick to some lunge work, give her mouth a bit of time off, if she's had a pain related issues in her mouth or something has pinched lips etc then she'd going to back off what ever you put in her mouth at the moment, so I'd wait a wee bit, get the dentist, just do some lunge work on a head coller, then start from frensh again with a french link, less pressure on the bars, as its spread across the tongue.

Does she have a dry mouth?
 
Thank you all.

Sorry, brain is (literally) not working too well now, getting tired
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Will ring dentist and vet tomorrow. There's a bitless bridle I can try at the yard. Will give her mouth a rest and lunge off the headcollar - can't ride for three weeks and no-one else is riding her, I want to be the first one back on after Sunday.

Going a bit wobbly so will sign off. Please don't think I'm being rude if I don't respond to any posts. Not rude, just battered. Hugs and thanks
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[ QUOTE ]
I have my TB in the same happy mouth bit on the large ring and she would throw her head a bit. I have now put pelham roundings on and a western curb chain with sheepskin and hey presto, happy horse. Really has mde a world of difference.

Side pulls are good but not sure were to get here, think they're similar to Dr Cook. Have seen the immediate effect of changing from bit to bitless a few tims in my short life. Definitely worth a try.

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Dr Cook is not a side pull - different action.
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[ QUOTE ]
You rest, Mrs M. You get better before worrying over these things - your poor brain will boil. Take care.

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Good point!

Yes you should be still busy holding that sofa down Mrs M!...meanwhile the dizzy one can have have a bit of time to chill out with her mouth etc before you try something else.
 
myler mullen, dressage legal and worked well with my mare who is very fussy in the mouth and also has independent side action, better for her fussy mouth and also you have brakes and steerage
 
Equially, she's only 5 and still growing. Maybe she'd like the winter off just chilling and growing up? Being 5 is a tough age for a horse like her, and she's faced a lot recently.
 
ns - we were discussing this only yesterday. friend came to keep me awake
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we think she was poss broken too young. i can understand why they did - she was a bit of a fruit loop when younger. lady who backed her last spring didn't canter her, said she wasn't ready/up to it.

with one thing and another she's had most of this year off, and certainly not worked hard when she has been worked. she's not been schooled in nine months.

i think we'll keep taking it slowly. i'll speak to vet and dentist today. instructor should be around next weekend, she's good and i trust her horse sense. will also speak to lady who worked with her for a few weeks last summer (Becky Ferrose). can't ride for three weeks so she'll be chilling anyway. have to handle her regularly or she gets stupid - uses her body to squidge, her head to bash, her teeth to hold you while she kicks you: if she is handled she remains as sweet as pie
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certainly have no plans to compete this year at anything and when we do it will be very low level and at quiet venues. will take her out for look-sees once the trailer arrives. she likes to hack out, very interested in the world and likes the attention
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sorry if i'm woffling on. brain woke up on the wrong side of the bed.
 
I will go against the grain a little bit here. I dont think bitless will help you at all. For a young horse, the additional pressure it puts on their cheeks/jaw etc can cause discomfort with their teeth changing etc.

The dashing off you describe is just a young horse being unbalanced and unsure in what she is being asked to do, not a bitting issue IMHO. It is important that you arent using her mouth for balance when she does that, and actually leaning forward will unbalance her further and can exasperate it.

I would personally stick with a nathe straight bar, and do lots of work with a good feel on the bit, but it is VERY improtant you keep soft arms so although you have a strong feel, its not at all fixed. My mare will dash off if I get hold of her, as soon as I soften my arms, but keep the contact, she softens and slows down. I really wouldnt want to be going bitless with a 5yr old
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an interesting alternative view KB
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before she went to the aht she was no problem at all. they worked her hard twice a day for a week to try and get the lameness going, so they could investigate. when she came back, in walk she was fine, then in trot - let's just say i was surprised! i don't normally lean forward, on that day though it was the only way to calm her down. she doesn't dash off if held. now she doesn't dash off at all, and hasn't felt like she's going to since that first day back really, although she does do all her other usual stroppy stuff. she's never been hard to stop.

i'm awaiting responses from vets and dentist and back man.
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Ah ok
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It could have been a response from the fact she had been worked until she was uncomfortable... its a difficult one without seeing her in action! Does she mouth the bit and have a wet mouth?
 
yes, mouths bit and moves it around her mouth. Friend says she often looks parrot mouthed with her top lip. snatches at the bit and throws head up.

when first get on and for first ten mins or so she is stiff necked and very fussy in her mouth. if one takes up a contact straight away and effectively say 'come on lass, work time' then she calms down, but this is a firmer than usual contact (which is why teddyt's comment re wolf teeth is interesting).

Sunday was the first time that she has thrown her head like that when we've headed down transition from a canter. daughter was watching and said she shot right/left/right/left - it was the last her 'left' that i went right. her response was so immediate i remember thinking it must have been pain, but the situation didn't allow for any suitable action
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