Do horses really take after their sire....

[KatB]

or their dam?!

Just got me thinking as I have just seen Lucky's half brother for sale, who has a VERY similar head to her

And hopefully looking at his record he has taken after his sire... and Lucky will aswell

But seriously, does the sire really make much difference to the horse? Or is it the dam?!

 

[diggerbez]

i think its both- or sometimes neither- like with people really!

 

[Ashtree]

The real answer must be just like any animal they take a bit from each. Though from experience I would say they tend to follow the sire more as regards physical side and dam more on temperament side. I'm probably wrong and the next person will say their experience is the exact opposite

 

[flyingfeet]

Sire makes a difference, but then so does individual personality

I have one mare by a well know quirky stallion, who has a crap personality in my eyes (grumpy git). Then I have two full brothers, which are half bros to the mare. They both have lovely temperaments, but one is super talented and the other just does what he has to to get by!

The mother to all of these was a sweetie, so definitely the stallion that made her daughter a cow (fortunately 2nd generation which is cow's daughter is thus far a sweetie)

 

[Bug]

Sorry but I am going to say the exact opposite!

Mine looks exactly like his dam, including the only white on them both is about 12 hairs where a star would be on their face.

Apparently the dam has a very nervous disposition, and a really upsettable type

however, Flynn is horizontal...

so I think he has taken after his sire.

 

[KatB]

Interesting CSJ

That also rules out the nature/nurture thing a bit aswell

 

[connie1288]

I think some lines have certain traits, but think I agree with Ashtree re Sire - physical and dam - temperament.

I am lucky enough to have met Tinks 3/4 brother, very similar to her in stamp (high % TB but quite heavy for that) and also similar temp, v pleasant usually on the floor, but ridden can be very quirky. I also knew someone that had worked with their sire, Double Trigger, he said it was a sh!t!!

From our homebreds, they have all picked up Mums brain, and which ever stamp Dad was.

 

[only_me]

I thought the white markings comes from some genetic thingy in the womb, and has nothing to do with dam/sire?

remember reading about a clone foal off a barrel racer, the dam had not a white hair on her whereas the clone foal had a white stripe and white sock?

 

[flyingfeet]

The super star bit is that spark and the ability to care, not quite sure why they turned out differently as neither has spent a night away from the farm (very sad I know!)

They don't look like each other either!

Oldest one - now 11
Clears show jumps whether 2ft or 4ft by 1cm and always has 4 faults... doesn't really give a damn!

And his full brother- now 9

 

[KatB]

Haha! Cant get much different

Presumably the dad was a Sjer? What was the mums atitude?

 

[flyingfeet]

Dad was a Pouchka III an international SJ'er

Mum was a my dear pony club pony of unknown origin, but was a total saint (but not an athletic super star)

Mum:

 

[CrazyMare]

They say 25% sire, 75% dam.

I know the owner of the sire of my filly, says everything about my filly is from my mare.

Daddy is http://sportpony.org.uk/laban.shtml

Mummy http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=55221&id=507987161&l=0abf7b8cf4

Filly http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=54598&id=507987161&l=bb9b4e2187

And Mum & filly together to compare

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=74630&id=507987161&l=22c3e1549c

 

[KatB]

Hmm, so has one taken after Daddy and one Mummy then?

Thanks Crazymare... thats interesting

Makes you wander why people can justify breeding from something distinctly below average to a good stallion when the chances are it will just = an average horse doesnt it?!

 

[CrazyMare]

Kat B - Yup, so my experiance tells me.

The filly in my posts above was bred at the same time as a colt living on my yard.

My grey mare is SPSS graded, and a fantastic, consistent, tidy, scopey jumper with a fab temprement, bred to an SPSS graded stallion of a fantastic temprement, proven in his field, scopey capeable jumper. The bay filly, has won three first premiums, two the with BEF, one with the SPSS and ALWAYS been comented on her temprement.

The colt on the yard was bred from a hot, hyper mare, to a stallion that was avalible. The results have been less than desireable, with regards to temprement and conformation.

 

[jrp204]

The 2 in my siggy are full brother and sister, she was 14.1 he is 15.1. He is very like his dad (Gorsfraith Brenin) but she was nothing like their mum who was a pbqh. They are both a bit quirky and although he is only just 5 he is starting to show some of the same talents as his sis so hopefully he will go on and match her comp record.

 

[oofadoofa]

Wish it was just the sire, my horse as the same sire as Michael Whitaker's Amai, but not sure he's got quite the same talent! He also has a full brother who is a grand prix horse.

But I do have 2 thoroughbreds by the same sire and they both have excellent temparements but are chalk and cheese ability wise, so I guess it's got to have quite a lot to do with the mother!

 

[Kenzo]

Well I've never believed in this myself but you'll find that most breeders will say they pass good temperaments down, but not when its the other way round!

There is a well know kwpn stallion that is know for being a bit of a g*t and lot of his offspring are the same, but is that just an excuse or is it something that has been passed down, or just pure coincidence? I really don't know, a lot of people wouldn't dream of breeding from a bad tempered mare but why is the mare like that in the first place is the question? its an interesting question.

My parents used to breed and (well my dad still shows) for over 40 years and they too have always sworn that you don't breed from bad temperaments.

 

[daisycrazy]

My gelding and his full sister were, according to the breeder, far and away the sharpest horses bred from their dam, so in their case presumably it was the sire's influence. Nonetheless, my gelding is a gentle and generous horse and I have a feeling, having seen photos of his dam, that this may be her influence.

 

[Forget_Me_Not]

I personally think Jesses is similar but better then his sire. Spider isn't put together like Zilzal but has his offsprings traits eg big sweaters and need patient training but then excel.

And seems to have his cheeky tempterment too...!

 

[HairyHatMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Sire makes a difference, but then so does individual personality

I have one mare by a well know quirky stallion, who has a crap personality in my eyes (grumpy git).
The mother to all of these was a sweetie, so definitely the stallion that made her daughter a cow (fortunately 2nd generation which is cow's daughter is thus far a sweetie)

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this Pouchka you're referring to? He's the sire of my mare in the siggy, and I have heard nothing either way about his temperament!

 

[henryhorn]

We've been breeding two identically bred but slightly different in build mares for over ten years, always to the same stallions.
The smaller mare always produces pretty heads, slightly sharper rides.
The bigger mare always has chunkier foals and calmer temperaments much like themselves when they were ridden.
The biggest proof of the stallion's influence was both went to one well known quirky event stallion. Both produced quirky temperamented foals, talented but no way would I breed to him again.
The jumping prowess is the same in virtually all of the offspring , to me it comes from the dam's side according to the attitude when jumping, they all seem to have the same technique as the original foundation mare, some three generations back now.

 

[millitiger]

our 5yro is the spit of her dam and looks nothing like her sire (One More Tiger).

the 4yro i just sold has been heavily stamped by her dam-sire; you can spot a horse with Oldleighlin breeding a mile off!

and my 3yro is the absolute spit of his sire Primitive Proposal- tall, v.dark bay, same head and lots of movement.
his full sister is short, bright bay and looks more like my (totally unrelated) 5yro.

 

[Halfstep]

I know two other horses who are by the same sire as my gelding, and have seen a few others. They all have similar physical attributes (a good front end with sloping shoulders and well set necks, similar shaped heads and ears, short backs and big bottoms!). They also seem to have similar cheekiness and a bit of a naughty streak! But I'd be able to pick one out in a group and say "I bet that is by Polansky".

 

[flyingfeet]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this Pouchka you're referring to? He's the sire of my mare in the siggy, and I have heard nothing either way about his temperament!

[/ QUOTE ]
Nope - my Pouchka boys are lovely. It was a different Hanoverian sire that produced my grumpy mare.

 

[Mosh]

I wish I knew who my boy took after! He's fairly quirky to ride but a sweetie to handle. I've traced his family back but no nothing of temperaments.
Dam: Dark Trix
Sire: Castle Keep
Grandsire (on dams side) was Peacock who sired Ringwood Cockatoo I believe.

 

[Gamebird]

[ QUOTE ]
or their dam?!

Just got me thinking as I have just seen Lucky's half brother for sale, who has a VERY similar head to her

And hopefully looking at his record he has taken after his sire... and Lucky will aswell

But seriously, does the sire really make much difference to the horse? Or is it the dam?!

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate to be pedantic (no, really) but if the horse you've seen is by the same sire as Lucky then it's not technically her half brother. Half-siblings are out of the same mare and are a very small group (mare unlikely to have had more than 10 foals) unlike horses by the same sire who may have fathered thousands of offspring.

 

[KatB]

Ah ok, I'm not that bothered tbh it just got me thinking! Specially as the head is so similar

The sire didnt father many apparently as he died quite young and wasnt very fertile I believe

But was just interested as I know people put SO much emphasis on the sire, which side a majority of the horses "good bits" are likely to actually come from the sire