Do I have grounds for a refund?

Dynamo

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 January 2017
Messages
124
Lexie, a few people have mentioned 'misrepresentation' as the thing to rely on in any legal claim. This applies to both professional and non-professional sellers. The Sale of Goods Act concerns fitness for purpose and applies only to professional sellers. Misrepresentation (which is completely different from fit for purpose in legal terms) applies to all sellers, and there are two forms of 'misrepresentation' to consider. The first is fraudulent misrepresentation, so if you believe the seller knew that the pony was not strictly as advertised, the second is negligent misrepresentation, where the seller is responsible even if they did not know. This is important. It means that if the pony is not exactly as described in information that you relied upon to make the purchase, regardless of whether the seller knew or not, you can return the pony and be fully refunded. You need to be able to prove it. If the advert describes the pony as 148cm and if you relied on the advert and the things you were told by the seller about the pony's record in 148cm classes and so on, then it doesn't actually matter when the pony grew, how the height certificates were obtained, or anything else. All that matters is that the pony was advertised as 148cm, that you relied on that information because a full life height JMB certificate was not available, and that the pony is actually 151cm. This constitutes negligent misrepresentation because the onus is on the seller to be accurate at the time of the sale, especially knowing that the height is of material value and importance. It doesn't necessarily mean that they attempted any malpractice, but simply that there was a mistake, that they failed to provide accurate validation of something that was critical to the value of the animal and to the sale, and it's the seller's mistake, not yours. If, however, the advert says APPROXIMATELY 148cm, or 148cm subject to JMB confirmation, then there has been no negligent misrepresentation because the wording suggests that the height is not being represented as definitive. Does that all make sense?

If your decision is to return the pony, and it IS your decision, you need a good equestrian lawyer to put this in writing for you, to state that you intend to return the pony on the grounds of negligent misrepresentation and demand a full refund.

How horrible to find yourself in this position, for all concerned, the pony and your daughter.
 
Last edited:
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15

Lexie01

Active Member
Joined
23 April 2016
Messages
36
Lexie, a few people have mentioned 'misrepresentation' as the thing to rely on in any legal claim. This applies to both professional and non-professional sellers. The Sale of Goods Act concerns fitness for purpose and applies only to professional sellers. Misrepresentation (which is completely different from fit for purpose in legal terms) applies to all sellers, and there are two forms of 'misrepresentation' to consider. The first is fraudulent misrepresentation, so if you believe the seller knew that the pony was not strictly as advertised, the second is negligent misrepresentation, where the seller is responsible even if they did not know. This is important. It means that if the pony is not exactly as described in information that you relied upon to make the purchase, regardless of whether the seller knew or not, you can return the pony and be fully refunded. You need to be able to prove it. If the advert describes the pony as 148cm and if you relied on the advert and the things you were told by the seller about the pony's record in 148cm classes and so on, then it doesn't actually matter when the pony grew, how the height certificates were obtained, or anything else. All that matters is that the pony was advertised as 148cm, that you relied on that information because a full life height JMB certificate was not available, and that the pony is actually 151cm. This constitutes negligent misrepresentation because the onus is on the seller to be accurate at the time of the sale, especially knowing that the height is of material value and importance. It doesn't necessarily mean that they attempted any malpractice, but simply that there was a mistake, that they failed to provide accurate validation of something that was critical to the value of the animal and to the sale, and it's the seller's mistake, not yours. If, however, the advert says APPROXIMATELY 148cm, or 148cm subject to JMB confirmation, then there has been no negligent misrepresentation because the wording suggests that the height is not being represented as definitive. Does that all make sense?

If your decision is to return the pony, and it IS your decision, you need a good equestrian lawyer to put this in writing for you, to state that you intend to return the pony on the grounds of negligent misrepresentation and demand a full refund.

How horrible to find yourself in this position, for all concerned, the pony and your daughter.
Thank you so much for this. This is a perfect summary of the situation and really clarifies our position in law. I have contacted an equine solicitor this morning. I think we are very much in the negligent misrepresentation area. Thank you again x
 

CanteringCarrot

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Joined
1 April 2018
Messages
2,592
I can’t see how you wouldn’t win in court, you bought a 14.2 specifically to SJ in pony classes, the fact it doesn’t measure in to do that surely means they have to refund?
I could see how the buyer potentially wouldn't win. This is why a proper solicitor is really needed. It's all in the details and the law. Could be straight forward as you think, but there are a few possible hang ups.
 

ihatework

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Joined
7 September 2004
Messages
18,897
I bought one that had been jumped in ponies then measured 151cm and was sold as a horse so I'd say it's unlikely to measure in from that.
Whereas in contrast, a friend of mine evented one that (unofficially) measured 152 and had originally been intended as a 148. The owners wanted it sold, it was advertised correctly and the buyers took a punt and somehow got a cert at 148. I don’t like to think how mind.

These cases really aren’t cut and dried.

OP - when this is resolved, either way, would be nice to know the outcome.
 

Ambers Echo

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 October 2017
Messages
6,402
Lexie, a few people have mentioned 'misrepresentation' as the thing to rely on in any legal claim. This applies to both professional and non-professional sellers. The Sale of Goods Act concerns fitness for purpose and applies only to professional sellers. Misrepresentation (which is completely different from fit for purpose in legal terms) applies to all sellers, and there are two forms of 'misrepresentation' to consider. The first is fraudulent misrepresentation, so if you believe the seller knew that the pony was not strictly as advertised, the second is negligent misrepresentation, where the seller is responsible even if they did not know. This is important. It means that if the pony is not exactly as described in information that you relied upon to make the purchase, regardless of whether the seller knew or not, you can return the pony and be fully refunded. You need to be able to prove it. If the advert describes the pony as 148cm and if you relied on the advert and the things you were told by the seller about the pony's record in 148cm classes and so on, then it doesn't actually matter when the pony grew, how the height certificates were obtained, or anything else. All that matters is that the pony was advertised as 148cm, that you relied on that information because a full life height JMB certificate was not available, and that the pony is actually 151cm. This constitutes negligent misrepresentation because the onus is on the seller to be accurate at the time of the sale, especially knowing that the height is of material value and importance. It doesn't necessarily mean that they attempted any malpractice, but simply that there was a mistake, that they failed to provide accurate validation of something that was critical to the value of the animal and to the sale, and it's the seller's mistake, not yours. If, however, the advert says APPROXIMATELY 148cm, or 148cm subject to JMB confirmation, then there has been no negligent misrepresentation because the wording suggests that the height is not being represented as definitive. Does that all make sense?

If your decision is to return the pony, and it IS your decision, you need a good equestrian lawyer to put this in writing for you, to state that you intend to return the pony on the grounds of negligent misrepresentation and demand a full refund.

How horrible to find yourself in this position, for all concerned, the pony and your daughter.
This is very interesting. Thanks for posting.
 

Hallo2012

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Joined
29 June 2016
Messages
1,061
just to add in that having schooled ponies on a fair few showing yards for years ive seen a LOT of 142-144 (on the stick at home)ponies measure in at 137cm for the welsh classes........so i am not sure that getting this one to 148 will be impossible actually........albeit please dont take that as me saying i agree with the HOW, i dont.....
 

Lexie01

Active Member
Joined
23 April 2016
Messages
36
Thank you all so much for your responses to my post. There has been no resolution to date. The owner is still refusing to refund or discuss matters further. I have formally instructed a solicitor today (after having telephone conversations prior to this) to start proceedings. I will let you know what happens. Thank you all again x
 

Lexie01

Active Member
Joined
23 April 2016
Messages
36
Hi All,
well we have been called back for a further JMB measurement following their panel review due to the large discrepancies in measurements. Will have to wait another 2 weeks.
I have also instructed an excellent equine solicitor incase she doesn't measure in.
I will keep you all posted. Thanks everyone for all your help xx
 

millikins

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 March 2011
Messages
3,153
Hi All,
well we have been called back for a further JMB measurement following their panel review due to the large discrepancies in measurements. Will have to wait another 2 weeks.
I have also instructed an excellent equine solicitor incase she doesn't measure in.
I will keep you all posted. Thanks everyone for all your help xx
Good luck, I hope for you and your pony that she measures in.
 

Lanky Loll

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Joined
23 June 2009
Messages
4,086
Location
Wilts/Glos border
Good luck on remeasuring. It's years since I had to get anything measured but have seen all sorts done to get them under.
One thing you can try to SEE if you have a hope of the pony measuring is dope it and measure it. The ultra relaxed pony will then measure at the lowest it's possible for it to go - this is NOT A LEGAL measurement - it's only try it at home. If it still doesn't measure at 148, there's no hope of it ever measuring regardless of what anyone would be prepared (or not) to do.
Having jumped against some rather large *cough* 14.2s back in the day (and having been in the line up on one that I knew measured 15.1 on a normal day - and been the smallest one in the line up :oops:) I'm all too aware of what has gone on before.
 
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