Do I have grounds for a refund?

neddy man

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 June 2013
Messages
2,064
Location
south yorkshire
Guess if it was good news we would have heard by now, or maybe no result due to technical difficulties, like everyone else I was hoping for good news for you.
 
Last edited:

The Fuzzy Furry

Resident irriot
Joined
24 November 2010
Messages
23,504
Location
The yard, home or coal face.....
I'd be interested to hear the outcome, measuring would have been completed before 5pm and results immediately known to parties there.
Unfortunately we dont have the registered name of the pony so it cannot be checked on the jmb site.
However, the last remeasure on their site was 27th May, which in itself is odd as remeasures go up quite quickly.
 

Lexie01

Active Member
Joined
23 April 2016
Messages
36
Sorry everyone. You have probably already guessed but she still didn't measure in. Absolutely gutted. I have no issue with JMB - everything was done very professionally - 2 vets plus a JMB representative. The pony is just too big! So now we have a very small horse with high withers.
A solicitors letter is already in the post to the original owner. She has 7 days to respond so I will let you know what happens - again. Thank you all so much for your support xx
 

ycbm

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
39,560
I hope you get your money back, you have been missold. I think GS is right that you have a text admitting that by the seller. Very good luck in pursuing this.
.
 

MyBoyChe

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 April 2008
Messages
4,370
Location
N. Bucks
What an awful situation to be in, especially as the pony (small horse) is perfect in every other way. Sadly though, if she is too big, she is too big. Like Michen, I started the process of taking a dealer to court for a similar offence, perfect family horse/safe for all the family, who napped and reared as soon as you put your bum in the saddle, again mine agreed to take the mare back and refund me before it got that far but its horribly stressful and all the time you have a living breathing animal to look after. I hope you manage to get this sorted quickly now without too much more stress
 

The Fuzzy Furry

Resident irriot
Joined
24 November 2010
Messages
23,504
Location
The yard, home or coal face.....
I wish you all the best, but I honestly cant see you winning this.
The pony/horse was 1.2cm below max height as an early 6 yr old, over 2 years ago. I would have wanted a current cert on something like that and would have walked if it wasn't forthcoming.
I know the pony ticked every box, but height is a huge one for comp purposes in pony classes.

Yes, easy to say after the event, but I have dealt in ponies through the 80s for over 20 years, its 2nd nature when needing animals to measure in for clients.

I'd be willing to even bet that it didnt have a life height because they guessed it might not measure. Caveat Emptor.

Good luck tho.
 

ycbm

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
39,560
I wish you all the best, but I honestly cant see you winning this.
The pony/horse was 1.2cm below max height as an early 6 yr old, over 2 years ago. I would have wanted a current cert on something like that and would have walked if it wasn't forthcoming.
I know the pony ticked every box, but height is a huge one for comp purposes in pony classes.

Yes, easy to say after the event, but I have dealt in ponies through the 80s for over 20 years, its 2nd nature when needing animals to measure in for clients.

I'd be willing to even bet that it didnt have a life height because they guessed it might not measure. Caveat Emptor.

Good luck tho.

Why wouldn't she win if the pony was sold as currently suitable for 14.2 jumping classes?
.
 

The Fuzzy Furry

Resident irriot
Joined
24 November 2010
Messages
23,504
Location
The yard, home or coal face.....
Why wouldn't she win if the pony was sold as currently suitable for 14.2 jumping classes?
.
Because a good to top level pony without a height cert is fishy. Buyer ought to have got this sorted pre purchase or on receipt to get returned if not measured in within x time.
Despite covid, jmb pads have been working since Feb so seller had no excuse to not get measured, which would ring big alarm bells to me.
 

CanteringCarrot

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 April 2018
Messages
2,592
Yeahhhh this is one of those mis-sold vs due diligence debates. Sometimes the threshold for something being mis-sold is not met, even though it would seem that would be the case. There can be some responsibility on the buyer as well. I'd have to know the exact details (see the original ad, read all communications between the parties) in order to reach a conclusion here. It may seem obvious, but it isn't always. Which is why legal guidance from a professional is needed.

Either way, I hope the horse ends up in a good home in the end, wherever that may be.
 

ycbm

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
39,560
Because a good to top level pony without a height cert is fishy. Buyer ought to have got this sorted pre purchase or on receipt to get returned if not measured in within x time.
Despite covid, jmb pads have been working since Feb so seller had no excuse to not get measured, which would ring big alarm bells to me.

Buyer made it clear that a 14.2 pony was required for age/height restricted classes. Business seller sold over height pony.

Buyer beware does not apply consumer law does.
.
 

ycbm

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
39,560
Just judging by what the OP has told us, including what she said she has recorded in text messages, that's all any of us can do.

Ref CC's post, there is no due diligence debate in a business sale, only in a private one.

You appear to be blaming the buyer for trusting what a business seller has told her?
.
 

The Fuzzy Furry

Resident irriot
Joined
24 November 2010
Messages
23,504
Location
The yard, home or coal face.....
Just judging by what the OP has told us, including what she said she has recorded in text messages, that's all any of us can do.

There is no due diligence debate in a business sale, only in a private one.

You appear to be blaming the buyer for trusting what a business seller has told her?
.
I'm not 'blaming' but was just trying to point out that most people buying an animal to compete in height related classes ensure that it conforms to requirements, in this case a current jmb would have sufficed. However, neither party appeared to have thought about mentioning this, whether as a considered point of negligence or being unknowing, pre sale or at point of sale.
 

ycbm

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
39,560
I'm not 'blaming' but was just trying to point out that most people buying an animal to compete in height related classes ensure that it conforms to requirements, in this case a current jmb would have sufficed. However, neither party appeared to have thought about mentioning this, whether as a considered point of negligence or being unknowing, pre sale or at point of sale.
It's irrelevant, surely.?

Seller had every financial reason to obfuscate and hope the sale would stick with a naive buyer, given that the price difference between one mm under and one mm over height is many 瞿000's

Seller was legally entitled to trust a business seller, whether or not that was naive. Being unknowing is a defence only for a private sale not a business one.

I hope the buyer wins if she goes to court.
 

The Fuzzy Furry

Resident irriot
Joined
24 November 2010
Messages
23,504
Location
The yard, home or coal face.....
It's irrelevant, surely.?

Seller had every financial reason to obfuscate and hope the sale would stick with a naive buyer, given that the price difference between one mm under and one mm over height is many 瞿000's

Seller was legally entitled to trust a business seller, whether or not that was naive. Being unknowing is a defence only for a private sale not a business one.

I hope the buyer wins if she goes to court.
Well, then I'm sure that will happen, you are very sure it will.
I was merely offering a different point of view, which you are very happy to discredit, based on your own findings.

OP, as I said a good number of posts ago, good luck.
 

ycbm

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
39,560
Well, then I'm sure that will happen, you are very sure it will.
I was merely offering a different point of view, which you are very happy to discredit, based on your own findings.

OP, as I said a good number of posts ago, good luck.
Sorry if you are offended, I'm not trying to "discredit", I just don't understand your argument in relation to a business sale.

I hope the buyer will win but with court cases nothing is guaranteed, sadly.
.
 

The Fuzzy Furry

Resident irriot
Joined
24 November 2010
Messages
23,504
Location
The yard, home or coal face.....
Sorry if you are offended, I'm not trying to "discredit", I just don't understand your argument in relation to a business sale.

I hope the buyer will win but with court cases nothing is guaranteed, sadly.
.
I'm not offended but a little exasperated. A business sale still requires due diligence from both vendor and purchaser. Night.
 

ycbm

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
39,560
I'm not offended but a little exasperated. A business sale still requires due diligence from both vendor and purchaser. Night.
But that's not true. A business seller does not "require", legally, any due diligence from the buyer. Legally, the horse has to be what a business seller says it is.

It's really wise to do your due diligence whoever the seller is, but the law is clear. A private seller can legally unknowingly sell a horse which is not fit for purpose but a business seller cannot.

I'm sorry FF, I'm not trying to be contrary about this, it's a very important point of law. It's what makes horses bought from a dealer (not as an agent, owned by the dealer) worth more than a horse from a private seller.
.
 
Last edited:
Top