Do I need to buy a warmblood to get a good dressage horse?

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I have two teenage geldings who are both ridden, and I need a companion for them. I don't want another riding horse at the moment, so I'm looking at buying a foal which will be mature when the boys start to slow down a bit. I would like something well balanced that will make a good stab at dressage, but I'm not a particularly serious competitor (at least not at the moment). I've been looking at foals online, and I'm going to see some at the weekend - they are all warmblood (Oldenberg or Hannovarian). Are there any other breeds that would be particularly good to look at. And if so, how on earth do I find them as foals? I only seem to find warmblood studs the web!
 
I think it depends on the individual horse, I have a warmblood who is just not that well suited to dressage, she's 11 and still cowers once she's inside white boards, loves her jumping but not got the best mind set for dressage, at competitions anyway.

I also have a young TB and I have high hopes for him in dressage, mainly as he has a sensible attitude and copes well when out for the day.

Depending on what level you want to get to, I wouldn't rule any breeds out, but look for personal characteristics that will suit your competition aims but also will suit your lifestyle.
 
No!!

I had a WB that couldn't do DR for toffy and never scored well.

I now have a ISH that the judges love and pretty much always scores in the 70's - mind you, we're still in the lower levels. But, I have high hopes and he has the most amazing trot and canter (when I can ride properly) and he's naturally 'up hill'. Plus, I like the challenge of attempting to do well with a 'non-dressage' horse.

But, he is hyper-reactive. I remember one of our first outings. He freaked out when he saw actual people in the car at the end of the arena - what the hell are they doing in the middle of an arena in a car thats not moving?? Outrage - he's such an idiot!

I love it when you see the 'odd balls' there that buck the trend but are ridden beautifully.

I suppose it depends upon what level you want to get to - perhaps above elementary, you do need a good dose to breeding???
 
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Depends on whether you want to do it seriously enough to need a super duper moving horse bred for the job, or just enjoy pootling about at your horse's level. If i wanted to win a lot and progress I'd look at WB's.
 
If you were looking for a specifically bred youngster, then yes go for a warmblood, as in theory that's what it's "bred" to do.

If you want something slightly older, then you can more assess the horse in front of you... such as PS's TB, and the ISH mentioned above.

I have a WB of some sorts... one of my old TB's was far more "flashier" in his movement.
 
I've also been wondering this as I keep hankering after a second pony (14.2hh is my max height limit !) and I would love to do really well at dressage. I must admit looking at some of the warmblood pony stallions out there they are stunning and very very tempting, but I would like something sane and rideable. On the other hand Im thinking as the pony warmbloods are bred for children they must be a bit more sensible than some of the loony warmbloods Ive known and ridden in the past :-) Good luck with your search !
 
You could go out and buy a foal with fantastic bloodlines & movement etc but have no guarantee on its trainability and if you'll be able to ride a big moving warmblood. It would be better to save what you would be spending on keep for 3 or 4 years, then when the time is right go and buy one that's broken in.
 
No you absolutely dont need a WB to do well at dressage, Prince33Sparkle and her sister are a shining example of what you can do with ex racers. HOWEVER I would caveat that with saying they are both SUPER riders and are a bit above us general amateur dressage riders who do it in our spare time for a bit of fun.

Generally a WB does help, judges often lean towards the WB's with bigger more expressive paces. However you can equally get great dressage horses from Welsh breeds (a Welsh D cob got to Grand Prix recently!), Spanish horses are wonderful for dressage as well as being more level-headed than WB's (Spanish horses often hack out and jump much better than some WB's).

It depends on how far you want to go I think. Most horses can get to Medium providing they dont have any health related issues. So if you want a bit more of a sensible all rounder that can do dressage as well, then a ISH type or Spanish horse might be a better option. If you'd like to go past Medium then a safer bet is a WB, unless you get Prince33Sparkle to come and train you on an ex-racer!
 
Plenty of other breeds are successful at dressage but for me most lack the wow factor.

Nothing turns my head more than a warmblood with floating paces.

So for me I'd have to yes, I'd certainly only consider a WB.

Though there are plenty of WB out there that look like donkeys, you need to find a good sort, one bred for the task in hand.
 
kc100 said:
No you absolutely dont need a WB to do well at dressage, Prince33Sparkle and her sister are a shining example of what you can do with ex racers. HOWEVER I would caveat that with saying they are both SUPER riders and are a bit above us general amateur dressage riders who do it in our spare time for a bit of fun.

Generally a WB does help, judges often lean towards the WB's with bigger more expressive paces. However you can equally get great dressage horses from Welsh breeds (a Welsh D cob got to Grand Prix recently!), Spanish horses are wonderful for dressage as well as being more level-headed than WB's (Spanish horses often hack out and jump much better than some WB's).

It depends on how far you want to go I think. Most horses can get to Medium providing they dont have any health related issues. So if you want a bit more of a sensible all rounder that can do dressage as well, then a ISH type or Spanish horse might be a better option. If you'd like to go past Medium then a safer bet is a WB, unless you get Prince33Sparkle to come and train you on an ex-racer!
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As my previous post, I don't think you can really tell if an ex-racer will have any flair for dressage until you start working it properly. I'd be pretty sure that if my tb had been with a pro rider he could have produced a good dressage test to what the 4* event riders do. However when I bought the sad looking donkey that he looked when I got him you wouldn't have thought that.

Personally if I was looking for a foal, I would be looking for something that was mainly tb, with a bit of ID thrown in for good measure, preferably Coille Mor Hill lines. Reaserch done on the quality and temperment off its siblings too would be worth looking in to. You would hope then that you should end up with something that should be a nice all rounder.

Same if you were looking for a dressage foal
 
If I wanted a horse primarily for dressage, I would buy a warmblood.

If you buy one with known dressage lines, it will tend to have generations of horses bred purposely for the sport you want to do.

Yes, some other breeds do well in dressage but they tend to be the exception rather than the rule (this is why we remember them!).
I would rather go with the law of averages rather than take a punt on a horse bred to do something else.

*and I say all that as someone who has never owned a warmblood and had a tb who got great scores and won a lot unaffiliated and affiliated dressage.
 
'Warmbloods' aren't a breed or even a single type. They are a huge collection of horses under different studbooks, bred for different purposes, one of which is dressage.

You have to buy the RIGHT warmblood, suitable physically and mentally for the job at hand and for you specifically. This would go for ANY breed, you are just much more likely to find a horse suited for dressage, especially at the higher levels, in a line of horses bred for the sport for generations.

Not all warmbloods are dressage horses, not all dressage horses are warmbloods.
 
wench said:
I would be looking for something that was mainly tb, with a bit of ID thrown in for good measure, preferably Coille Mor Hill lines. Reaserch done on the quality and temperment off its siblings too would be worth looking in to
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I'm glad people like the ID for DR - after all they do have Iberian blood in them, so why wouldn't they do the job!

TarrSteps said:
'Warmbloods' aren't a breed or even a single type. They are a huge collection of horses under different studbooks, bred for different purposes, one of which is dressage. You have to buy the RIGHT warmblood, suitable physically and mentally for the job at hand and for you specifically. This would go for ANY breed, you are just much more likely to find a horse suited for dressage, especially at the higher levels, in a line of horses bred for the sport for generations.
Not all warmbloods are dressage horses, not all dressage horses are warmbloods.
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Well said, after all a Welshie is really a WB too, so why don't we see more of them doing DR?
 
As above ,what is your understanding of a 'warmblood' there are so many different types and breeding that get dragged together under this banner!
Many of the traditional german bred studbooks are bringing in more external influences again for example a lot of iberians are finding their way to germany and Holland at the moment to try and improve their trainability and collection. Also there has been another injection of TB blood with a lot of youngsters carrying a high percentage TB as they have just realised they were missing out on its robustness and stamina for eventing.
In your situation trying to get a foal for the future do not try and go extreme in any direction ,however I must say you seem so unsure of what you want with this post and the previous that I would save my money for the 3yrs it is growing up and then buy something that you want. There is a lot that can go wrong with a foal between now and when its ridden .
 
Tonks said:
I'm glad people like the ID for DR - after all they do have Iberian blood in them, so why wouldn't they do the job!



Well said, after all a Welshie is really a WB too, so why don't we see more of them doing DR?
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I don't define 'warmblood' as any old mix though. It's come to mean a group of horses bred for a phenotype suitable for the FEI sport. It's not a random process. Welsh Ds are great for what they've been bred for and their type but they have not been, as a group, produced with top level dressage in mind. Some may have aptitude - I saw one do some promising half steps last week - and they may be super at their level, but if they were consistently Olympic calibre someone would be on that by now. ;)

Re the 'big books' adding in other breeds, that is kind of the point, they are 'open' (or semi open, like Trakehners) so the process of improvement (or not, depending on your view) is ongoing. They do not take any old example of another breed, they take specifically chosen ones with the attributes they are looking to breed in and a minimum of factors that go against the end goal. Lauries Crusader is not there because he's any old tb, he's there because he consistently produces better canters. (But not improved jumping ability, interestingly enough.)

Anyway, I don't think it much matters much for most of us. Most of us don't need a horse bred to go to the Olympics and, frankly, most of us would struggle to ride many of them! A well conformed, good minded, situationally suitable horse is the way to go, regardless of breeding.
 
At the lower levels any horse that has nice paces and is trainable can do well. If you want to try dressage with your anglo, why not? I can't think of a single reason why you shouldn't try.

The pure arab stallion Dervatiw Gwyddion has given his owners a lot of success at 2nd and 3rd level dressage in the US before he was imported over here.
 
wench said:
As my previous post, I don't think you can really tell if an ex-racer will have any flair for dressage until you start working it properly. I'd be pretty sure that if my tb had been with a pro rider he could have produced a good dressage test to what the 4* event riders do. However when I bought the sad looking donkey that he looked when I got him you wouldn't have thought that.
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disagree.

we looked at lots when looking for Fig and turned them down at the pic/video stage as they were obviously downhill and would never move nicely enough.

yes you have to look beyond the racing fitness or total lack of fitness/condition but you can make a good assesment in the same way you can young un fit WB's-does it move uphill, does it step under in trot, sit in canter, offer passage when excited, show a clean change from one lead to the other when loose. does it use its body and ground to showcase its self, does it look supple.

move it round the stable-does it step away from you politely, back up nicely, bend round to follow you easily or does it push its body back in to you and pig at you.

i assess all unbroken horses in the same way whether its an ex racer thats un broken for dressage or a 2yo WB-you can get a good feel for how keen to learn and to please they are and how they move without having to sit on them.

its got to have the right basic skeleton-if it looks like a dowhill tubular greyhound, with front legs a foot shorter than hinds,its never going to transform in to an uphill beefcake dressage horse.... but even if its super fit or very poor, if it stands uphill with a nicely set on neck, with its hocks under its self you are in with a fighting chance.
 
If I wanted to really aim for the top in dressage, then yes, I would invest in a WB. Contrast to that, I do have an andalusian who is proving to be a dressage star, although she's young, she finds the higher end of dressage easier (as in collection etc as she's naturally very uphill and collected). I find she's a bit like marmite with judges though. I think some just don't understand the breed and their way of going. She's often marked down as being extremely tense and very on the fore-hand, she's not at all, she's just very sensitive in her head-carriage and movement and extremely powerful in front, giving off the impression they say. But, as much as I love my dressage, I more enjoy the training behind it, and only compete for "fun".
 
When I go to watch affiliated shows, about 90% of the time a warmblood comes in first. So I think you're probably making an easier path for yourself if you do go down the warmblood route, and also with a warmblood youngster you get more of a guarantee of physical ability, if the parents are dressage horses. But any reasonably conformed sound horse can do well at the lower levels, and there are some non-warmbloods that have done phenomenally well at the higher levels! (like PS's Pea!)

I love my tb and and would always go for another, but we occasionally get the odd 'on the forehand' comment, when he's really not, his front legs are just shorter than his back legs!
 
MS123 said:
If I wanted to really aim for the top in dressage, then yes, I would invest in a WB. Contrast to that, I do have an andalusian who is proving to be a dressage star, although she's young, she finds the higher end of dressage easier (as in collection etc as she's naturally very uphill and collected). I find she's a bit like marmite with judges though. I think some just don't understand the breed and their way of going. She's often marked down as being extremely tense and very on the fore-hand, she's not at all, she's just very sensitive in her head-carriage and movement and extremely powerful in front, giving off the impression they say. But, as much as I love my dressage, I more enjoy the training behind it, and only compete for "fun".
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tension doesnt have to be mind tension, it can be muscle tension too and it sounds like the judge is trying to say shes too tight and not using her body, which can be the downfall of the iberian breeds-they do not generally have the fluidity and looseness to get the higher marks (with some exceptions). bit OT but id be wary of just dismissing the judges as not understanding the breed........

Pigeon said:
When I go to watch affiliated shows, about 90% of the time a warmblood comes in first. So I think you're probably making an easier path for yourself if you do go down the warmblood route, and also with a warmblood youngster you get more of a guarantee of physical ability, if the parents are dressage horses. But any reasonably conformed sound horse can do well at the lower levels, and there are some non-warmbloods that have done phenomenally well at the higher levels! (like PS's Pea!)

I love my tb and and would always go for another, but we occasionally get the odd 'on the forehand' comment, when he's really not, his front legs are just shorter than his back legs!
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again, a tough one for judges to mark because by nature he IS on the forerhand, even if he's trying his hardest not to be! Pea gets comments that he needs to stay more on his hind leg but in reality he's never going to give the same impression as a WB thats built like an alsatian dog! the judge is correct, and must point out what they see, but whether we can actually alter it, is another matter.

all imprtant points to take in to consideration as the judge can only judge aginst the directives, not against breed type.
 
TarrSteps said:
Anyway, I don't think it much matters much for most of us. Most of us don't need a horse bred to go to the Olympics and, frankly, most of us would struggle to ride many of them! A well conformed, good minded, situationally suitable horse is the way to go, regardless of breeding.
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This. If you are buying a foal then best look at conformation and bloodlines. You want bloodlines that produce sane, sensible, trainable horses with good conformation. You can get this in a WB but you need to do your homework as the bloodlines in each of the studbooks vary.

I have I guess quite a "flashy WB" and can assure you it's not the easy option! They are bred to be sharp and sensitive as they need to be responsive as they go up the levels, but for an amateur that can be challenging. I have several friends who have had lovely well-bred WBs and sold them on because they couldn't handle them - none of them are novice riders or first-horse owners. Also, the bigger the movement the harder it is to ride. My boy moves pretty big and although I absolutely love it, it's bloody hard work to sit to, never mind actually ride! You need to be physically fit, strong and healthy to progress on a big mover. The reason I have mine is because his previous owner, a pro, had back problems and was no longer able to ride his movement. If you aren't riding several horses a day then riding a big mover is going to be considerably harder.

Personally, in your position, I would go for a horse from breeding known for temparament and trainability, with a good active hindleg and a natural ability to collect. I think it's easier for an amateur to progress on a horse like this than a sharp flashy mover.
 
From my own experience I think warmbloods are the best in theory for dressage, they're what the judges seem to like anyway. My warmblood has usually got very decent scores even though I've felt it wasn't that great, yet my other horse (an unconventional Luso x TB so he has the Luso action), even if I feel he's gone nicely, I never got particularly decent scores! So I would just try to avoid anything with a less than "normal" action. Then again, I always got pretty good scores on my Welsh D who I always struggled like hell with in a test (he was very strong, leaned like mad but would then go lazy as hell etc.), so who knows...!

If the horse looks pretty then I think that's 5 marks gained before you even come down the centre line...
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
tension doesnt have to be mind tension, it can be muscle tension too and it sounds like the judge is trying to say shes too tight and not using her body, which can be the downfall of the iberian breeds-they do not generally have the fluidity and looseness to get the higher marks (with some exceptions). bit OT but id be wary of just dismissing the judges as not understanding the breed........
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I don't dismiss the judges comments at all, I take them all on board and aim to work on them to improve T's way of going! I am just merely stating and using an example that they can be misunderstood by those who don't/ may not understand them.
 
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Prince33Sp4rkle said:
disagree.

we looked at lots when looking for Fig and turned them down at the pic/video stage as they were obviously downhill and would never move nicely enough.

yes you have to look beyond the racing fitness or total lack of fitness/condition but you can make a good assesment in the same way you can young un fit WB's-does it move uphill, does it step under in trot, sit in canter, offer passage when excited, show a clean change from one lead to the other when loose. does it use its body and ground to showcase its self, does it look supple.

move it round the stable-does it step away from you politely, back up nicely, bend round to follow you easily or does it push its body back in to you and pig at you.

i assess all unbroken horses in the same way whether its an ex racer thats un broken for dressage or a 2yo WB-you can get a good feel for how keen to learn and to please they are and how they move without having to sit on them.

its got to have the right basic skeleton-if it looks like a dowhill tubular greyhound, with front legs a foot shorter than hinds,its never going to transform in to an uphill beefcake dressage horse.... but even if its super fit or very poor, if it stands uphill with a nicely set on neck, with its hocks under its self you are in with a fighting chance.
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This. It has nothing to do with breed and everything to do with type. I would argue you are more LIKELY to get the right type in purpose bred lines but if you buy a downhill, tubular warmblood you are still on a hiding to nothing.
 
PS's point about breed characteristics is that the standard for dressage as we know it now is the Modern German Competitive school. Like it, lump it, that's the way it is. The further a horse is from THAT ideal, the more it will struggle to get the marks. If you have a naturally uphill tb or a Spanish horse with a big, loose, straight trot. You will get the marks.

Just to add another layer though, I think there is an ethical aspect to pushing a horse too hard to do a job it isn't built for. Again, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BREED! But 'seeing how far you can go' has to be tempered with 'knowing when to stop'. I see so many people soldiering on with horses that are unsuitable for the job at hand (which also includes the comment about horses that are too much) just to prove a point. If you accept, as PS says, that the limitations are inbuilt and a trade off against attributes you want in the horse (including price!) then great. But to bang away at a horse, wanting something it can't give, until it has to tell you to stop, seems unfair.
 
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