Do I put him down or attempt loaning???

[lorry345]

I have a irish sports horse who is 5yrs. owned him for 4 months and due to being green when trying, i thought the lazyness was due to being unsure of schooling.

I started to worry when i noticed hill work was hard, and as schooling came on, hocks where very inactive on one leg more than other.
4 weeks about he went lame so took him in for x-rays and the little man has a bone cyst and osteoartheritis (bone spavin).

I do not want to inject him with steroids or try tildren as the vet thinks his career will be short lived and I was hoping he'd be in his prime at 13, not so lame he has to be pts...

The operation I read can cause lameness elsewhere, he also can't be stabled due to being a fruit looop and don't know how hed cope on box rest.

I would rather put him down than put him on bute or danilon all his life till the pain gets too bad and after researching, id be lucky if the bones fused anyway and it sounds like a lot of upset for a joint desease thats going to get worse and worse.

His happy and healthy now and maybe it's best for him ?

I am worried if i loan him to a hacking home or companion home someone will try to push him too far or he will get passed about and not cared for. Not only would most people not touch a horse with a bone spavin though, he also will not travel alone, has reared and is not a happy hacker as he likes a job and is happiest when he is jumping and in hard work.

He was purchased for a job and I do not have the hardiness in me to see him go through treatment, being filled with drugs and all in all to then be exempt from insurance and for me to be left with a lame happy hacker.

The bone cyst will still be there even if i treat the bone spavin and as it was the cyst that is thought to have caused the spavin... What the hell is the point? Ive had the most tearful weak of my life. But how would I ever find a loan home for a horse with a bone spavin, has potential to do quite high and dangerous rears, does not like hacking that much and someones going to have to pay for trial and error for treatments I don't agree with.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Sadly from reading your posts, it sounds like you have already made up your mind not to treat him and hoping others will agree with you and to end the suffering. Only you can make this decision, I find it hard to comment just from reading this as I am not emotionally attached to him.

I would take the vets advice.
My own gut feeling as whats best for the horse.
view my finances to see if I can afford to treat him including recovery time and monies!
can I afford a field ornament.

This is what i would do.

 

[Horses24-7]

I do feel for you, my horse is in the vets today for a lame assessment for his hocks and I'm worried senseless

I don't think loaning is an option really? Been discussing worse case scenario with my oh and think if mine had to be retired I would find cheap grass livery to retire him. I have had mine 6 years though which probably makes me more sentimental?

It's difficult if he's unsure why don't you have the treatment don't under your policy and then he may be suitable for a light/hack home?

 

[Capriole]

Im not sure there would be a queue of people wanting to loan him Im afraid

 

[AmyMay]

I do not want to inject him with steroids or try tildren as the vet thinks his career will be short lived and I was hoping he'd be in his prime at 13, not so lame he has to be pts...

Ah, no insurance then.

Shame, because certainly you have nothing to loose by giving him treatment, and seeing what the future holds.

However, if that's not the route you want to go down, have him shot.

 

[Kallibear]

A 5yr old ISH is unlikely to make a good happy hacker: the type of person who wants that kind of horse is usually a nervous novice wanting a confidence giver. I'm guessing he's not that horse?

If he is pain free as a happy hacker and would be happy doing so, I'd investigate that route first but it would need to be a perfect home: someone I knew, close by and on LOAN only, not 'free to a good home'. That way you have control of his future.

If not I'd have him PTS. He is only going to become more lame and painful and if you cannot keep him as a field ornament, its wrong to pass his issue onto someone else, and will do him no favours.

 

[lorry345]

Thanks guys. Yeh I feel bloody shi*t for kind of making a choice on a healthy and happy horse!!!
But in reply to you Horses24-7... I would LOVE to find him a hacking and lightwork home after treatment but someone is going to have to take him on waiting for the tildren or injections to wear off and to go lame again. he is currently still lame in walk on danilon.
Also he hates hacking and all though good with me, i wouldnt be able to rehome him and say to anyone he is a safe hack as :S

 

[lorry345]

Ah, no insurance then.

Shame, because certainly you have nothing to loose by giving him treatment, and seeing what the future holds.

However, if that's not the route you want to go down, have him shot.

Hi, he is insured but will be exempt as of next year. If he has the treatment though, my issue is I have heard the tildren and injections to not really last much longer than 6 months and he'd still have to find a new home as I purchased him to do a job and hacking/lightwork... well his just too expensive for me to justify keeping him when he is my only horse to event. Sound terrible don't I :s being selfish with what I want out of a horse and his no longer up to it so I'm either thinking putting him down or finding a loan home which could be very tricky.

I should really cut my losses, man up and accept it but even if I did withdraw from competing... I'm letting him tick over on drugs until the joints get too painful which worries me a little?

 

[Mypinkpony]

I had a horse on full loan who had a very bad case of bone spavin, neither myself or owner knew this when i took him on but he was great, yes i had a few months where i couldn't ride but once all was diagnosed and he did have injection, took 2 secs to do and he was fine. i had him for about 6 months after that (his owner came back then) just before he went we got back to jumping 2ft6! not saying this is good for you but he could go and be a fantastic full loan for someone, but it's just finding that someone. I just think its sad when horses get PTS as i know many could of lived happy years with the right person.

But saying all that, if you have him PTS sleep then the reasons you are doing it are in benefit to him so no one should think badly of you.

 

[Horses24-7]

My horse sounds exactly the same temperament as yours!

He couldn't be just a hacker, and like you I don't think I couldn't compete etc and wouldn't be able to afford another in livery.

I understand your confusion, it just doesn't seem right to PTS when they seem quite happy mooching round a field. But I suppose that would be better than passing them on.

God I hope the vet rings soon about my boy with good news

 

[MerrySherryRider]

You seem to have made up your mind as from your description, he sounds unlikely to be suitable for a loan home.

If retirement or treatment is not on your list of options, then shoot him.

Shame though.

 

[lorry345]

My horse sounds exactly the same temperament as yours!

He couldn't be just a hacker, and like you I don't think I couldn't compete etc and wouldn't be able to afford another in livery.

I understand your confusion, it just doesn't seem right to PTS when they seem quite happy mooching round a field. But I suppose that would be better than passing them on.

God I hope the vet rings soon about my boy with good news

I didn't realise when he was going through x-rays with me how bad it was as I was haveing a forgetful and dumb day after all the stress of him going lame and I kind of knew after vet came out before x-rays and suspected arthritic changes.

I still feel to anyone reading this I should appologise for suggesting putting a healthy horse down... But rest assured I am totally 50/50 on this. After growing up on a farm you see, to put something down when not fit for job seems normal, especially with the fact my gelding would be impossible to rehome.

I am not by any means saying I am the only rider out there for him, we are well suited but if I'd of known about the bone spavin and it had shown up in the vetting, obviously I would never have purchased the poor chap.

I am so worried about him and for his health and happiness, I would be willing to stick through and bite my tongue whilst sticking to hacking out but I know that would not please him as it's just not his thing... I'd also hate to run him into the ground on injections and drugs till it is too painful? tbh if he went I don't think I'd be able to get another competition horse for a long time anyway as this has torn me even having to be in this situation. I feel for anyone who ever has to go for lameness examinations as it's the biggest heartache ever

 

[lorry345]

You seem to have made up your mind as from your description, he sounds unlikely to be suitable for a loan home.

If retirement or treatment is not on your list of options, then shoot him.

Shame though.

I'd love to get the treatment done.... But been advised by friends who have gone down this route not to. As it's dragging out more attachment with the horse to finish in upset as the steroid injections will eventually stop working before he is even a teenager... You see this seems OK... As the horse is getting longer life right? But is it fair to run him into the ground to the point the injections can't hide it? :S I have read and read and read on this and filled my head with nothing is going to work. But then if you try to go off internet and peoples dangerous or scarey experiences... You often end up writing things off when things could have worked out differently?

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

If it were my horse I would give him a fighting chance, especially as you have insurance, explain to your vets you want to hit him hard with treatment for the next 6 months, have the best done, you hear of such success stories on here, and worse comes to worse when the insurance put an exclusion on him and he doesnt look like it's worked then make the decision... This is what I would do anyway X

 

[Mahoganybay]

I really feel for you and it comes very much across that you want whats best for your horse and yourself, some may say that it is selfish tothink of yourself and you should spend the next 10 years watching your horse graze happily in a field.

Horses are very expensive and the majority of people that own them have them for a reason, to ride them, if you have your own land and you can ensure their future with minimal cost then fine, but probably like me you pay out hundreds each month in livery fees and want something in return, to ride your horse.

I am in the same boat as you OP, i am tomorrow taking my mare to the vets to have her hock re x-rayed, i have done the arthroscopy op, done the steriod injections, spent weeks walking out in hand slowly bringing back into work, spent £5k on my insurance and nearly 12 months on things are no better :-(

My questions tomorrow will be, how stable is the joint and how much in pain is she? I will be looking to see if she has any use without pain i.e light hacking on bute, if not then i will probably be looking at pts. I just need to say that she has other issues, too many to go into on here, lets put it this way, i have owned her 4 years and she has been on box rest for 2 years and coming back into work for 2 years.

I dont take this decision lightly at all :-(

 

[MerrySherryRider]

I do understand your dilemma, I've been there a few times and it is grim when future plans are wrecked. Hope all works out for you and your lad.

 

[Mahoganybay]

Forgot to say in my long winded post, i would never loan my mare out as she is not a novice ride, my mare my responsibility and as much as having her pts will be one of the worst days of my life, i will have to do it.

 

[lorry345]

I really feel for you and it comes very much across that you want whats best for your horse and yourself, some may say that it is selfish tothink of yourself and you should spend the next 10 years watching your horse graze happily in a field.

Horses are very expensive and the majority of people that own them have them for a reason, to ride them, if you have your own land and you can ensure their future with minimal cost then fine, but probably like me you pay out hundreds each month in livery fees and want something in return, to ride your horse.

I am in the same boat as you OP, i am tomorrow taking my mare to the vets to have her hock re x-rayed, i have done the arthroscopy op, done the steriod injections, spent weeks walking out in hand slowly bringing back into work, spent £5k on my insurance and nearly 12 months on things are no better :-(

My questions tomorrow will be, how stable is the joint and how much in pain is she? I will be looking to see if she has any use without pain i.e light hacking on bute, if not then i will probably be looking at pts. I just need to say that she has other issues, too many to go into on here, lets put it this way, i have owned her 4 years and she has been on box rest for 2 years and coming back into work for 2 years.

I dont take this decision lightly at all :-(

Ive only ever had one horse put down... It was lovely as he was 33, ridden till 31 and had just started to struggle getting about so we caught him before he lost all his dignity. Easiest choice that was ever made.

With my chap though, I would genuinely feel like I've taken such a special and healthy horse away for my own greed. Which would explain why I get guilt run through me and upset when I even think or discuss the option of putting him down.

I really do feel for you. My boy is a nightmare to travel so being in and out of vets with a dangerous horse to travel has almost sent me into a nervous breakdown. Also, its so upsetting seeing other horse owners in and out of the vets whilst i'm there, ripping their hair out and looking at their horses lame being trotted up, poked and prodded with a potential outcome they've got one very expensive happy hacker who you wouldnt even want to be doing much trotting on the roads :S

I am waiting for my vet to call me back so I can discuss my worries of the treatment, but with the bone cyst too... Who knows. fingers crossed he has a miracle answer to all my worries though haha.. I wish !

 

[Magnetic Sparrow]

I bought a horse with spavins. He had previously been brought on as an eventer, but couldn't stay sound. I had him as a hack. He wanted a more exciting life than I could offer, but he did get enough gentle work to keep him sane(ish) when he was sound. Every so often he would go lame and had to be rested until he came back sound. In those days the treatment options were much less than now. Eventually he was judged to be incurably lame and I had him pts. He would have hated being a field ornament, so I had a clear conscience about that, even though I was devastated to lose him.

However, I don't know anyone who wants a white-knuckle hacking horse. Sometimes there is no happy ending.

Tbh, if it was me I would probably try one cycle of treatment, see how it goes and then pts if he went lame again unless there was a remarkable long-term improvement. If you don't want to keep a horse in hard work that has to be medicated to stay sound I think pts is a good decision.

 

[Wagtail]

I'm afraid I don't agree with your attitude to treatment OP. You seem to think bone spavin is some terrible affliction, when in actual fact, 50% of horses over the age of eight have bone spavin to a greater or lesser degree. Some horses with bone spavin compete to the highest levels, with treatment. You say you have insurance, I would go with the treatment, and due to his age, would probably go for the operation. It really is not that bad. The box rest period is not as long as with some ops because they usually perform the operation through the tiniest of incisions. If he is bad on box rest, then having him operated on now is the best time possible, as you can make a tiny pen in the field so he can be rested with other horses around him. You can then gradually increase the size of his turnout area. I did this with my gelding two years ago who sustained a kick to his hock after only 3 weeks of owning him and had to have his joint flushed out and a bone chip removed.

I think it is unfair on your young horse for you not to give him a chance at life. My gelding, as I say, I had had only 3 weeks and he was found to have severe bone spavin when they xrayed both hocks, and on top of that, he was later found to have kissing spine! I have now had him two years and have never had a decent ride on him. But it wouldn't enter my head to have him shot, unless he was suffering. Yes, I feel cheated sometimes. It would have been so much easier if he had had a condition where he had to be PTS for humane reasons. At least then I would have a horse to ride. You see I also had to retire my mare due to severe injury, so I have two useless horses. But I love them both, and seeing them so happy in retirement is just lovely. Even if my selfish side sometimes feels cheated.

ETA: Having regular injections is not that expensive. Many horses go a year or more inbetween them and they cost around £200 - £250 for both hocks. Not a huge amount in the scheme of things. Also, tildren is most effective on younger horses, so I would have that done whilst under the insurance.

 

[lorry345]

I'm afraid I don't agree with your attitude to treatment OP. You seem to think bone spavin is some terrible affliction, when in actual fact, 50% of horses over the age of eight have bone spavin to a greater or lesser degree. Some horses with bone spavin compete to the highest levels, with treatment. You say you have insurance, I would go with the treatment, and due to his age, would probably go for the operation. It really is not that bad. The box rest period is not as long as with some ops because they usually perform the operation through the tiniest of incisions. If he is bad on box rest, then having him operated on now is the best time possible, as you can make a tiny pen in the field so he can be rested with other horses around him. You can then gradually increase the size of his turnout area. I did this with my gelding two years ago who sustained a kick to his hock after only 3 weeks of owning him and had to have his joint flushed out and a bone chip removed.

I think it is unfair on your young horse for you not to give him a chance at life. My gelding, as I say, I had had only 3 weeks and he was found to have severe bone spavin when they xrayed both hocks, and on top of that, he was later found to have kissing spine! I have now had him two years and have never had a decent ride on him. But it wouldn't enter my head to have him shot, unless he was suffering. Yes, I feel cheated sometimes. It would have been so much easier if he had had a condition where he had to be PTS for humane reasons. At least then I would have a horse to ride. You see I also had to retire my mare due to severe injury, so I have two useless horses. But I love them both, and seeing them so happy in retirement is just lovely. Even if my selfish side sometimes feels cheated.

ETA: Having regular injections is not that expensive. Many horses go a year or more inbetween them and they cost around £200 - £250 for both hocks. Not a huge amount in the scheme of things. Also, tildren is most effective on younger horses, so I would have that done whilst under the insurance.

I totally agree with you. But obviously with the treatment, I have a few worries I would like to discuss with my vet.

The tildren prevents fusion, and i've not heard it to last over a year (only read over internet though, I'm sure it has for many people). With the tildren, my relation who is a vet told me prevents fusion and he wouldnt waste my insurance money on it encase I get the operation... BUT then the operation due to being such a sudden change, can cause lameness elsewhere. This could be wrong though hence why I want to discuss with the vet.
I am still waiting to hear back from my vet as I've left a message and I want to ask him endless questions and worries with the treatment... But I have my log in to access journals and a lot of the treatments seem to have either problems following or very limited success. Also with the injections, they seem to work for people first time round for a good few months, but it gets less and less. I can't afford her as a grass cutter as this leaves me with no riding horse when she goes lame. I could try to find someone with land to retire her and keep her but obviously this worries me as I had a mare on trial when I was a kid. Fell in love with her but, sadly... My mum rang old owners by tracing them on her passport and they where in tears saying they sold her as a field companion and can't beleive shes been passed on when she had loss of use due to endless failed treatments. They said they where 100% sure the buyer of their mare was going to stay a field companion so it was very upsetting she was passed on and the spavin was well hidden.

 

[Flame_]

Can they not treat the cyst? I'm sure my friend's horse had a bone cyst removed (although it grew back so not very successful ).

TBH I get why you don't fancy messing about treating the spavins, horses with spavins are never right, they just manage a certain level of work with or without treatment, and if the cyst is the root of the problem then treating the spavins isn't going to do much, is it?

People will loan all sorts though. Would he hunt and do fun rides? Some horses that aren't really sound behind cope for years doing this sort of job, maybe with a bit of bute sometimes?

If he's no good for any job (and to me that includes only plodding round the lanes, the riders capable riding sharp, quality horses invariably want to do more than this) then I'd pts. Depends if you're up for collecting large, young field ornaments.

 

[Flame_]

I'd love to get the treatment done.... But been advised by friends who have gone down this route not to. As it's dragging out more attachment with the horse to finish in upset as the steroid injections will eventually stop working before he is even a teenager... You see this seems OK... As the horse is getting longer life right? But is it fair to run him into the ground to the point the injections can't hide it?

Its better than the alternative!

 

[FinkleyAlex]

Going to go against the grain with my opinion, and no doubt will get shot down but this is my personal opinion - I would do absolutely everything possible for my horse and having been in your position my horse has had injections (and they have worked - it has been two and a bit years since the last set and he's still fine without a top-up). I too bought my horse as a competition horse BUT whenever I have bought a horse it has been in the knowledge that should they no longer be able to complete their job then they will still have a home with me. My very talented horse is now a light hack (which he's getting better at) and a beautiful lawn mower. I'm not rich, but I have gone without a riding horse in order to keep my happy, otherwise healthy horse alive. Why should he be shot just because he can't do a 'job' anymore - I find this to be a very selfish attitude. He is a living animal and why on earth should he lose his life because it isn't convenient for you. If you can't afford the vet bills or can't afford to keep him now that he can't do a 'job' then IMO you should not have bought a horse.

 

[indie999]

If he was a happy field ornament and happy with a tad of bute I would keep him as field ornament until time to PTS ie if he deteriorated and was not happy definitely PTS. or do it before winter sets in when the old arthritis could get worse.

I would not loan him as others wont care for him as you have. Even though he is young illness and disease can happen to any age and he is lucky to have been looked after by you.

Easy to give advice but I would worry that someone else wont keep a close eye or be willing to pay vet bills etc so PTS if prognosis is against him. sorry.

 

[lorry345]

Going to go against the grain with my opinion, and no doubt will get shot down but this is my personal opinion - I would do absolutely everything possible for my horse and having been in your position my horse has had injections (and they have worked - it has been two and a bit years since the last set and he's still fine without a top-up). I too bought my horse as a competition horse BUT whenever I have bought a horse it has been in the knowledge that should they no longer be able to complete their job then they will still have a home with me. My very talented horse is now a light hack (which he's getting better at) and a beautiful lawn mower. I'm not rich, but I have gone without a riding horse in order to keep my happy, otherwise healthy horse alive. Why should he be shot just because he can't do a 'job' anymore - I find this to be a very selfish attitude. He is a living animal and why on earth should he lose his life because it isn't convenient for you. If you can't afford the vet bills or can't afford to keep him now that he can't do a 'job' then IMO you should not have bought a horse.

OUCH, this is a little off key. I care for my horses and always make sure they're insured and all vet bills and money is never there to worry me. I would live off beans and out a cardboard box if it meant keeping them happy...

But he would not be a happy horse left to hack around and mow grass. My grandma rehomed her ID happy hacker when he was 22. He had spavins and other lameness issues but hacked out fine and had a lovely loan home.. But my gelding is dangerous for others to hack, and as good as he is with me, I am not going to lie and pretend he enjoys hacking and eating grass as he is board, hates traffic and loves having a job. I am fully aware of what I buy into and what issues might arise, but this horse is not safe to keep as a light working horse who munches the grass. I have seen a very unhappy change in him since being in hacking work and still lame on danilon. I am purely taking in his temperment and the safety factor of making him hack all the time when thinking of this situation I am in.

 

[ester]

WT 50% I'm curious as to where that figure came from, just from an interest point of view.

OP, I think first and foremost you need to discuss treatment outcomes with your vet.

 

[FinkleyAlex]

OUCH, this is a little off key. I care for my horses and always make sure they're insured and all vet bills and money is never there to worry me. I would live off beans and out a cardboard box if it meant keeping them happy...

But he would not be a happy horse left to hack around and mow grass. My grandma rehomed her ID happy hacker when he was 22. He had spavins and other lameness issues but hacked out fine and had a lovely loan home.. But my gelding is dangerous for others to hack, and as good as he is with me, I am not going to lie and pretend he enjoys hacking and eating grass as he is board, hates traffic and loves having a job. I am fully aware of what I buy into and what issues might arise, but this horse is not safe to keep as a light working horse who munches the grass. I have seen a very unhappy change in him since being in hacking work and still lame on danilon. I am purely taking in his temperment and the safety factor of making him hack all the time when thinking of this situation I am in.

If he is dangerous to hack then fair enough, but I think people are very quick to write their horses off before letting them get used to just grazing. My own horse loved being in work and had various turnout issues (stemming from being brought up on showing yards and never having proper turnout until he came to me). It took a fair few months but he is now very happy to go out in the field all day and come in to his stable at night - he is hackable in winter but not in summer due to his sweet itch. I've known many people to retire their competition horses fretting that they will not handle the change in lifestyle but given a few months they take to it brilliantly. I would inject then let him be in a field. If after a few months he still cannot fathom being a proper horse and grazing then only then would I PTS. I do not mean to target my frustration to you directly - I'm just always a little saddened at how quick people are to put their horses to sleep rather than explore options, often doing what is best for them rather than the horse. Apologies if I come across too blunt.

 

[lorry345]

If he is dangerous to hack then fair enough, but I think people are very quick to write their horses off before letting them get used to just grazing. My own horse loved being in work and had various turnout issues (stemming from being brought up on showing yards and never having proper turnout until he came to me). It took a fair few months but he is now very happy to go out in the field all day and come in to his stable at night - he is hackable in winter but not in summer due to his sweet itch. I've known many people to retire their competition horses fretting that they will not handle the change in lifestyle but given a few months they take to it brilliantly. I would inject then let him be in a field. If after a few months he still cannot fathom being a proper horse and grazing then only then would I PTS. I do not mean to target my frustration to you directly - I'm just always a little saddened at how quick people are to put their horses to sleep rather than explore options, often doing what is best for them rather than the horse. Apologies if I come across too blunt.

Youre very right here. It is worth sticking at and I can see it from your point of view.. but *hides away* can see it from the other side too.

He may adapt fine if I let him threat it out. But I worry about being a danger on roads and with other cars as the more he hacks the worse it gets. But if we do it twice, three times a month, it seems to work better :S you'd think the more he hacks the better he would get but tried it and he got worse and more attitude towards cars coming towards or behind.

still pacing around the place waiting for vet to call as obviously... I am still waiting to calm maybe my worries on the treatment? Which will mean I'll look back at this post and probably beat myself up for even thinking of putting him down and being such a rational stress head... But fingers crossed for him.

 

[lorry345]

WT 50% I'm curious as to where that figure came from, just from an interest point of view.

OP, I think first and foremost you need to discuss treatment outcomes with your vet.

50% im lost where i said this or the connection. unless you mean me saying i am 50/50 on putting him down??? I don't mean 50/50 as I am 50% sure he should be put down as such...

But if the vet gets back and say yes it's going to keep coming back due to the bone cyst, I am very unsure on what to do due to the horse being in and out of pain and worried that she is still lame even in walk on danilon right now.