DO NOT USE A WORMER - Unless you know your horses worm count

[alicedove]

I have just returned from a veterinary talk, on worming.

All the vets in this practice, and from what he says, all over the UK are now advocating not using wormers unless your worm count demonstrates that it needs it, (and then of course be careful due to inducing colic.)

Resistance to wormers are at an all time high and if anyone is worming regularly, sometimes as often as every 6-8 weeks, on yards and as a matter of course, this is how to build up a resistance for worms. Changing brands doesn't always help either.

Also this is a waste of money and you would be pumping chemicals into your horse unecessarily.

In the winter months it is more or less pointless too.

Have a worm count done when spring starts, for the cost of a top brand wormer, 80% of horses don't need worming.

Have a tape worm blood test done in the spring, for the same reasons.

Poop picking is the single most effective way of controlling parasites. And the hot, dry weather will kill worms in the fields if you miss some.

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

Good advice SP but I thought that encysted red worms don't show up on a worm count?

 

[piebaldsparkle]

They don't!!!(or Tape worms - which require a blood test).

 

[Cahill]

who can recomend a worm-count lab to use?
how much £?

 

[the watcher]

QR and furthermore I understand there is no evidence of resistance yet to Equest - although whether you would want that kind of relatively long lasting chemical in your horse is another debate altogether.

 

[carthorse]

We had an old horse a few years ago who had been wormed as per drug company recom..He became ill and a worm count was done ,it came back high.The vet treated him and he was treated every three weeks.
I wrote to the drug companies and they were not interested, just said there was no resistance shown to their product.I asked if they would like to test our horse as we had owned it for many years and they were not interested.They make a lot of money out of wormers and I believe we over use wormers and should definately have a worm count and poo pick

 

[piebaldsparkle]

http://www.westgatelabs.co.uk/ (have used them and give excellent service, counts from £9.50 with dicounts if more horses done).

or

http://www.abbeydiagnostics.co.uk/ (have heard good things about them and am going to try them next time as much cheaper than Westgate).

 

[Cahill]

Thanks.£6-£6.50 for the abby.
i think this is the way to go.

 

[piebaldsparkle]

Don't forget to enter their free draw to win your count free........worth a try anyway!!!

 

[ISHmad]

We worm count in Summer and Winter and worm with Equest Pramox in Spring and Autumn as recommended by our vets.

Too many people don't realise that the worm counts do not cover encysted worms - redworm, bots etc - or tapeworm and could be seriously jeopardizing their horse's health by either not worming, or not getting bloods done to test for those worms too.

I'm not prepared to have blood tests done every six months on my horses and will continue to worm for encysted and tape worms at the appropriate times. No way would I worm our horses every six weeks or so, never.

 

[Theresa_F]

I worm count in late September and then worm for just tape or a combination wormer (if not clear or low count) in October. I then worm with Equest in January for encysted red worm. I do a further worm count in mid March.

I poo pick nearly every day in summer and weekly when on the winter paddocks until end December when it is then too muddy and wet and the grass is gone. Cairo is always clear or very low and Chancer being a youngster was occasionally medium but now is normally low and gets another equest in March after his count is done. if it comes up high low/medium.

I used to do more worm counts initially but now only do three a year and worm once for tape and once for encysted.

Have done this for the past four years and now use Abbey who provide an excellent service, cheaper than Westgate and they are extremely friendly and helpful.

It also now saves me money as Cairo being 730 k needs more than one tube of wormer.

 

[spaniel]

Ive been using this system for getting on for 20 years and would love to sit and work out just how much cash I have saved by not using unnecessary wormers on my horses and liverys.

I worm count every 12 weeks through the year (Westgate Labs) and blood test annually for tapes. The only routine wormer I use is for encysted redworms. If a blood comes back as requiring tape treatment I do it but normally this happens maybe once every two or three YEARS.

I use Verm X every 10 weeks and poo pick and I have never had a count come back at over <50 epg.

 

[WishfulThinker]

Our horses were on a worm count programme, came back clear for my old yard on same programme and then apparently came back clear for current yard.

Which is why i am a little puzzled as to why I have been charged £17 for a Wormer last month?!

 

[star]

[ QUOTE ]
We worm count in Summer and Winter and worm with Equest Pramox in Spring and Autumn as recommended by our vets.

Too many people don't realise that the worm counts do not cover encysted worms - redworm, bots etc - or tapeworm and could be seriously jeopardizing their horse's health by either not worming, or not getting bloods done to test for those worms too.

I'm not prepared to have blood tests done every six months on my horses and will continue to worm for encysted and tape worms at the appropriate times. No way would I worm our horses every six weeks or so, never.

[/ QUOTE ]

agree with all of that, down to the last letter

 

[_Libby_]

[ QUOTE ]
Equest - although whether you would want that kind of relatively long lasting chemical in your horse is another debate altogether.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt realise this , can you tell me more about it?

I've recently moved to a yard where they have had a problem in the past with encysted red worm. A worm count was done on my horse when she arrived and it was clear. I've had her 12 years and never had problems, she was wormed twice a year with pramox. At the new yard they worm every 6 weeks which i have went along with til now (Equest) should i be doing this? Feel bad now

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

Also beware of worming too close to a flu/tet annual booster! , I made that mistake and my beloved horse went downhill badly with an recurring virus - almost like ME (which he might have had already without us knowing and the chemicals tipped it into flaring up, or might have been caused by the vacc and wormer lowered his resistance).

He survived but it took months to come right and he still has occasional mild bouts.

Thankfully we are moving to own place soon so I can worm count and just worm for the essentials like tape and encysted redworm and I am already religious about poo picking )

 

[Orangehorse]

Interesting. I get my wormers through my veterinary practice, at a price!

It was all getting so complicated I didn't know which product was which. I did question whether it was necessary to use so many products a couple of years ago.

I hope my vets went to the same talk!

 

[ihatework]

Equest should be used every 12-13 weeks, so I would question your YO as to why it is being given every 6

 

[Theresa_F]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not prepared to have blood tests done every six months on my horses and will continue to worm for encysted and tape worms at the appropriate times

[/ QUOTE ]

I spoke to my vet about blood tests for tape and he said better to worm for it once a year than to keep sticking needles in them. He advised that unless the horse suffered from bouts of colic or didn't hold weight, once a year tape treatment was sufficient.

He also said as Chancer got older he would probably only need worming twice a year like Cairo for tape and encysted red worm.

I would refuse to use equest less than 12 weeks apart - as said Cairo gets it once a year and Chancer twice a year but I am hoping this year he will go down to once.

 

[susannita]

I have been wormcounting for about 10 years. i am lucky that every single count for every horse has come back "<50 -nil eggs seen". On that basis I now don't need to worm for encysted worms. I wormcount regularly and so as these worms do not stay encysted forever, some would have appeared at some point in the counts. You need at least 2 years of nil wormcounts to be able to make that assumption though as they do have varying life cycles. Obviously if i do end up with eggs seen in a count then my actions will change accordingly.

The tapeworm wormer once a year is also my preference. By the time you pay for call out and bloods its over 100quid!

My vets were REALLY arsey about me wormcounting strategically like this up until very recently, when they are now agreeing i was right all along to ignore their advice and pump my horses full of unnecessary chemicals! Funnily enough the vet at Strongid P was absolutely in agreement with me - as was the guy at the RSPB as apparently these chemicals have a dire effect on birds and their eggs etc.

 

[Mic]

My horse has an intermittent cough, most apparent when exercised, and someone has recently suggested it could be lungworm. Its doesn't fit the bill to be COPD and although it seemed to get a little better on steroids, it now appears to be more intermittent in nature. I really wasn't clued up on lungworm, does anyone have any experience of their horse having this?

I've had my horse just under a year - he is only 6 and came from Ireland. Am very worried about his future as nothing seems to be working at the moment. Really appreciate any suggestions, especially relating to lungworm!

 

[the watcher]

Lungworm
'It is extremely rare for lungworm larvae to develop to full maturity in horses as the horse is not a good host for that particular parasite. Horses can be infected with lungworm but as they do not mature in to egg laying larvae in any numbers to sustain a population on the pastures. Exceptions to this in horses can arise in very young or old horses and seriously depilated horses whose immune systems are impaired'

 

[brighteyes]

Agree totally with you - nobody seems to have taken into account that the encysted ones do eventually emerge - and you can wallop them then, if you haven't got them already. If you have a closed herd, don't let them have so much as a blade when they are out at shows (Lord knows what they can pick up from show fields) worm strategically based on counts and at treat at least once a year for tapeworms AND poo pick daily......well, you shouldn't have any problem! Save loads of money, too. Once the worms are out of the horse, do everything in your power not to let them back in and I fail to see how you can't break the cycle.

 

[Tierra]

Cant even buy wormers over here

Same all over scandinavia and in a few other mainland european countries apparently.

It all has to be done through vet worm counts and blood tests. You cant buy wormers over the counter anywhere. Solves the problem of unnecessary worming i guess.

 

[loobiloo]

It may not be lungworm but maybe another parasite that passes through the lungs during it's life cycle (I know that sounds silly but it really isn't a lungworm!). An ascarid (Parascaris equorum) that infects youngsters usually passes through the lung, damaging the tissue and causes a bad cough, pleurisy etc. Most wormers cover for this and many vets have passed the infection off as one only for the very young but more horses are showing positive egg counts and if your horse has shared pasture with younger horses then they may well have got infected. Maybe this is because these worms have also started to build a resistance? - not sure, just playing devil's advocate!

As far as weather goes - cold frosts and hot days DO NOT eradicate worm eggs. Many species' eggs have very durable casing and are sometimes quite sticky, so if you stable your horse and you find a positive worm count then completely muck out, because eggs can lay dormant for a very very long time.

Totally support doing the egg counts regularly and worming accordingly but I think it's better to treat for tapeworm rather than have constant bloods done. The chemicals for tapeworm aren't used as regularly anyway so resistance isn't such a problem with these. There is an extremely high resistance to fenbendazole (panacur) - I don't bother using it at all but doesn't seem to be one for equest as others have said.

Sorry for long post - I love parasites - but not in my animals!

Oh yeah - just in case anybody doesnt know - dont let your dogs (especially your jollie collies) get in contact with any wormer as they have been shown to make them very poorly

 

[loobiloo]

Sorry only just read your post bright eyes. Totally agree with poo picking everyday etc but you really have to try and get the encysted R/W larvae before they emerge as when they migrate out of the gut wall that is when most of the damage is done

 

[Donkeymad]

I have worm counted regularly since buying my first pony some 9 years ago. Apart from a newcomer once, I have always had <50epg, I do poo pick daily. I then worm for Tape once a year but never need to worm otherwise. I recommend Abbey Diagnostics every time.

 

[LCobby]

Another cause of worms becoming resistant can be under-dosing. The packs which contain a dose for 575 kilos are insufficinent many horses.
We worm to cover encysteds / bots and for tapeworms.
Worm count in between these two dosings.

 

[ISHmad]

[ QUOTE ]

At the new yard they worm every 6 weeks which i have went along with til now (Equest) should i be doing this? Feel bad now

[/ QUOTE ]

Your YO should be shot if this is their worming policy! Equest should only be used every 13 weeks at the most, less than that if you worm count and then stragetically worm in Spring and Autumn for all worms including encysted ones and tapes.

 

[peanut]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We worm count in Summer and Winter and worm with Equest Pramox in Spring and Autumn as recommended by our vets.

Too many people don't realise that the worm counts do not cover encysted worms - redworm, bots etc - or tapeworm and could be seriously jeopardizing their horse's health by either not worming, or not getting bloods done to test for those worms too.

I'm not prepared to have blood tests done every six months on my horses and will continue to worm for encysted and tape worms at the appropriate times. No way would I worm our horses every six weeks or so, never.

[/ QUOTE ]

agree with all of that, down to the last letter

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto